the way for ff to suceed

Carrots · 10-06-2010, 01:33 AM

take examples from successful games that exist in todays world:

tf2

it may not be considered a fortress game by this crowd, but its still a good game... it targets a diffrent playerbase and it does this very sucesfully, why not follow in its footsteps?

**squeek.** · 10-06-2010, 02:52 AM

Precisely because TF2 targets a different playerbase. Trying to target TF2's playerbase is a lose-lose: we both compete more directly with TF2 and we potentially lose the players that FF currently targets and that TF2 doesn't.

TF2 has some good ideas (and some might work for FF), but changing FF to target a similar playerbase as TF2 is not that great a plan.

Bridget · 10-06-2010, 10:38 AM

Yeah, targeting new players is a terrible idea.

zE · 10-06-2010, 12:33 PM

I have to agree with squeek in this one, FF cant compete with TF2 directly thats a huge established game. Thats the same thing of insurgicy mod tryng to compete with CSS that just wont happen.
I always says that FF could only get players from TFC, but seems Hardcore TFCers aren´t a big fan of it, maybe because it puts aways that huge learning curve that TFC had. So the only other way ic is turning it in a type of tfc source or changing it a lot to a whole new concept, wich is what i suspect devs are doing atm.

Also just a note i´m not a Beta Tester, but i heard a lot of specific changes in 2.5 some sound cool, but if you guys are changing some class roles, why not just add some extra classes with that stuff, why you should have 9 classes and not 10 or 11 or 12 : ) That would be cool, to have new classes with new stuff, maybe classes that dont have a big impact in the game but that are kinda fun.

CHURCHMOUTH · 10-06-2010, 12:42 PM

i think the devs should change the name to TFC:FOREVER and maybe like zE says change some things to be a lot more like TFC i understand it already is very very similar but make it almost identical as far as the hitbox sizes go and rocket speeds and shit maybe then ud see a jump in the playerbase and a slouch in TFC's playerbase

moosh · 10-06-2010, 01:16 PM

Bridget · 10-06-2010, 01:34 PM

Be right back guys, going to go reinvent the wheel.

chilledsanity · 10-06-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrots

the way for ff to suceed

That's "succeed." You're off to a great start.

417 · 10-06-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yeah, targeting new players is a terrible idea.

NeonLight · 10-06-2010, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

That's "succeed." You're off to a great start.

Carrots is known to be a retard.

**Dexter** · 10-06-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHURCHMOUTH

..change some things to be a lot more like TFC i understand it already is very very similar but make it almost identical as far as the hitbox sizes go and rocket speeds..

hey thats funny, thats kinda what's already been done with a lot of things! player hitboxes are identical iirc, even crouching etc. of course the differences are some speeds like player movement. but I think rockets are very close. anyway, that isn't going to pull any more tfc players regardless.

bri wants us to target new players but complains about any changes in the beta that aren't fixing sg as pointless or unneeded. go figure. maybe if we listened to the community ..

GenghisTron · 10-06-2010, 06:46 PM

it's rebs lil brother, move on, nothing to see here

**squeek.** · 10-06-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yeah, targeting new players is a terrible idea.

I disagree.

chilledsanity · 10-06-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexter

bri wants us to target new players but complains about any changes in the beta that aren't fixing sg as pointless or unneeded. go figure. maybe if we listened to the community ..

Well I can see both sides:

Dev side: There are probably a million different things to work on and someone focused only on one thing may not be helpful. This is just a gameplay tweak and probably doesn't call for involvement from modellers, texture artists, mappers, etc., so things need to be managed as efficiently as possible. While maybe related, focusing on getting new players is a different animal than tweaking the sg.

sg side: This nerf has caused more damage to balance than probably any other individual change. I personally know a couple friends who liked FF and stopped playing primarily over this. If you like playing ng in ANY other TF game, FF is a slap in the face. AvD balance is fucked and it correlates to this change. For the people who haven't left yet, they've been waiting 2 years now for this to get remedied. If this still isn't a priority, what is?

Bridget · 10-06-2010, 09:48 PM

Engineer is the beginner class. When the introductory class sucks dick, then people don't have a lot of hope for the rest of the game. It's just too demanding coming into Fortress Forever trying to whack Scouts out of the sky or do sick air strafes into a rampslide. Engineer was the stepping stone class. It was the compensation for your inexperience. The SG did your work for you, so to speak, letting you figure out class interactions and how the game is played from "the sidelines".

Now it's a total piece of shit. It has been modified patch after patch to suit the pickup community. Yeah, the supposed "most skilled" players in Fortress Forever can't get past a fucking sentry gun. Consider pretty much every change from the perspective of competitive play. The gun has no push now. Scouts just fly right past it. People can literally walk up to it and crowbar it. They can ever so easily drop a dozen 'nades on it without a care in the world. It's trash. There's no trade-off. It's not good in terms of damage output with bad survivability. It's not bad in terms of damage output with good survivability. It is bad all around. Bad bad fucking bad!

Now, there have been changes in the beta. I liked them. I didn't see any push increases, but it did survive pretty fucking long when I was tanking it, but should it require having to focus all my efforts on it to keep it up? What ever happened to setting one up and roaming near it using it to support you? You still have to babysit it, because it can't deal enough damage to protect itself even with the increased survivability. Yes, it was worked on, but it hasn't been polished or finalized. The team has instead focused their efforts elsewhere. They do this with every mechanic. They ditch them half-finished for something else. They are here, there, everywhere in terms of what they're working on.

WiFiDi · 10-06-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

I disagree.

yea squeek but from what he said i don't know what hes really saying. is he saying change the game to follow in tf2 footsteps or somthing else.

OP please be more clear this is to short. to display your point.

KubeDawg · 10-06-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Engineer is the awesome class. When the introductory class is awesome, then people don't have a lot of hope for the rest of the game. It's just too awesome coming into Fortress Forever trying to whack Scouts out of the sky or do sick air strafes into a awesomeslide. Engineer was the stepping stone awesome class. It was the compensation for your awesomeness. The awesome SG did your work for you, so to speak, letting you figure out class interawesomes and how the game is played from "the sidelines".

Now it's a total piece of awesomeness. It has been modified patch after patch to suit the awesome community. Yeah, the supposed "most awesome" players in Fortress Forever can't get past an awesome sentry gun. Consider pretty much every change from the perspective of awesome play. The gun has no push now. Scouts just fly right past it. People can literally walk up to it and awesome it. They can ever so easily drop a dozen awesome'nades on it without a care in the world. It's awesome. There's no trade-awesome. It's awesome in terms of damage output with awesome survivawesomebility. It's awesome in terms of damage output with good survivawesomebility. It is awesome all around. Bad awesome fucking awesome!

Now, there have been awesome changes in the beta. I liked them. I didn't see any push increases, but it did survive pretty awesomely long when I was tanking it, but should it require having to focus all my awesome on it to keep it up? What ever happened to setting one up and roaming near it using it to support you? You still have to awesome it, because it can't deal enough damage to protect itself even with the increased survivawesomebility. Yes, it was worked on, but it hasn't been polished or finalized. The team has instead focused their awesome elsewhere. They do this with every mechanic. They ditch the awesome for something else. They are here, there, everywhere in terms of what they're working on.

fix'd

CHURCHMOUTH · 10-06-2010, 11:47 PM

Dexter to be honest i have no complaints with the current status of FF's hitboxes and rocket speeds or blue pipes and stuff liek that. i only said it because anytime i try to talk some tfc superstars into coming into our new world of fortress they come back saying thinks like the hitboxes are too big rockets are too easy to hit blue pipes cant miss... thats all

oh yeah and since when is there a beginner class? (engy is hard as fuck imo, BUILD BUILD RUN RUN RUN RUN DIE BUILD BUILD RAILS RAILS DIE GUN GOES DOWN BUILDDDDDD EVERYONES YELLING AT YOU TO GET UR GUN UP OMG SUICIDE)

**Crazycarl** · 10-07-2010, 01:59 AM

How about we just make the game more fun? Copying another game is just like admitting you have no ideas and are a shit at game design.

That's not to say you can't steal ideas, of course.

**Ricey** · 10-07-2010, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

How about we just make the game more fun? Copying another game is just like admitting you have no ideas and are a shit at game design.

That's not to say you can't steal ideas, of course.

Quote:

Good artists copy, great artists steal.

That is all.

10-06-2010, 01:33 AM	#1
Carrots Join Date: Oct 2009 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	the way for ff to suceed take examples from successful games that exist in todays world: tf2 it may not be considered a fortress game by this crowd, but its still a good game... it targets a diffrent playerbase and it does this very sucesfully, why not follow in its footsteps?

10-06-2010, 02:52 AM	#2
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	Precisely because TF2 targets a different playerbase. Trying to target TF2's playerbase is a lose-lose: we both compete more directly with TF2 and we potentially lose the players that FF currently targets and that TF2 doesn't. TF2 has some good ideas (and some might work for FF), but changing FF to target a similar playerbase as TF2 is not that great a plan. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington Last edited by squeek.; 10-06-2010 at 02:53 AM.

10-06-2010, 12:42 PM	#5
CHURCHMOUTH crystaLcity D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Soldier D Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Goodfellas Posts Rated Helpful 7 Times	i think the devs should change the name to TFC:FOREVER and maybe like zE says change some things to be a lot more like TFC i understand it already is very very similar but make it almost identical as far as the hitbox sizes go and rocket speeds and shit maybe then ud see a jump in the playerbase and a slouch in TFC's playerbase __________________ 83745 L0LZ ff_nyx_b2 ff_schrape_b3 ff_security_b1 ff_baked_b2 ff_reloaded_b1 ff_mulch_dm_b2 ff_oppose_b1

10-06-2010, 06:46 PM	#12
GenghisTron AKA LittleAndroidMan D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dystopia Class/Position: Demo/Medic Gametype: CTF Affiliations: [TALOS] [SR] Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	it's rebs lil brother, move on, nothing to see here __________________ The Catacombs Steam Last.fm

10-06-2010, 09:48 PM	#15
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Engineer is the beginner class. When the introductory class sucks dick, then people don't have a lot of hope for the rest of the game. It's just too demanding coming into Fortress Forever trying to whack Scouts out of the sky or do sick air strafes into a rampslide. Engineer was the stepping stone class. It was the compensation for your inexperience. The SG did your work for you, so to speak, letting you figure out class interactions and how the game is played from "the sidelines". Now it's a total piece of shit. It has been modified patch after patch to suit the pickup community. Yeah, the supposed "most skilled" players in Fortress Forever can't get past a fucking sentry gun. Consider pretty much every change from the perspective of competitive play. The gun has no push now. Scouts just fly right past it. People can literally walk up to it and crowbar it. They can ever so easily drop a dozen 'nades on it without a care in the world. It's trash. There's no trade-off. It's not good in terms of damage output with bad survivability. It's not bad in terms of damage output with good survivability. It is bad all around. Bad bad fucking bad! Now, there have been changes in the beta. I liked them. I didn't see any push increases, but it did survive pretty fucking long when I was tanking it, but should it require having to focus all my efforts on it to keep it up? What ever happened to setting one up and roaming near it using it to support you? You still have to babysit it, because it can't deal enough damage to protect itself even with the increased survivability. Yes, it was worked on, but it hasn't been polished or finalized. The team has instead focused their efforts elsewhere. They do this with every mechanic. They ditch them half-finished for something else. They are here, there, everywhere in terms of what they're working on. Last edited by Bridget; 10-06-2010 at 09:58 PM.

10-06-2010, 10:38 AM	#3
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Yeah, targeting new players is a terrible idea.

10-06-2010, 12:33 PM	#4
zE Pew pew ze beams Join Date: Jan 2008 Gametype: Gathers Affiliations: pew pew Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	I have to agree with squeek in this one, FF cant compete with TF2 directly thats a huge established game. Thats the same thing of insurgicy mod tryng to compete with CSS that just wont happen. I always says that FF could only get players from TFC, but seems Hardcore TFCers aren´t a big fan of it, maybe because it puts aways that huge learning curve that TFC had. So the only other way ic is turning it in a type of tfc source or changing it a lot to a whole new concept, wich is what i suspect devs are doing atm. Also just a note i´m not a Beta Tester, but i heard a lot of specific changes in 2.5 some sound cool, but if you guys are changing some class roles, why not just add some extra classes with that stuff, why you should have 9 classes and not 10 or 11 or 12 : ) That would be cool, to have new classes with new stuff, maybe classes that dont have a big impact in the game but that are kinda fun.

10-06-2010, 01:16 PM	#6
moosh WhenNailGrenWillOut? Beta Tester Join Date: May 2009 Gametype: mp_prematch Affiliations: [:)] - Frag Happy, babe\| Posts Rated Helpful 29 Times

10-06-2010, 01:34 PM	#7
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Be right back guys, going to go reinvent the wheel.

10-06-2010, 11:47 PM	#18
CHURCHMOUTH crystaLcity D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Soldier D Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Goodfellas Posts Rated Helpful 7 Times	Dexter to be honest i have no complaints with the current status of FF's hitboxes and rocket speeds or blue pipes and stuff liek that. i only said it because anytime i try to talk some tfc superstars into coming into our new world of fortress they come back saying thinks like the hitboxes are too big rockets are too easy to hit blue pipes cant miss... thats all oh yeah and since when is there a beginner class? (engy is hard as fuck imo, BUILD BUILD RUN RUN RUN RUN DIE BUILD BUILD RAILS RAILS DIE GUN GOES DOWN BUILDDDDDD EVERYONES YELLING AT YOU TO GET UR GUN UP OMG SUICIDE) __________________ 83745 L0LZ ff_nyx_b2 ff_schrape_b3 ff_security_b1 ff_baked_b2 ff_reloaded_b1 ff_mulch_dm_b2 ff_oppose_b1 Last edited by CHURCHMOUTH; 10-06-2010 at 11:54 PM.

10-07-2010, 01:59 AM	#19
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	How about we just make the game more fun? Copying another game is just like admitting you have no ideas and are a shit at game design. That's not to say you can't steal ideas, of course.

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