Idea for engineer

[Z4toichi]

I was thinking about making the game a little more friendly to newcomers, and I came up with an idea. I know D is already buffed, but I thought about replacing the engineers regular grenade, or giving him a new build-able. My idea was for a proximity alarm. One that gets triggered when the enemy crosses it. It can be destroyed, and the engineer would only get one or two per life. It would consist of a device placed on a surface that broadcast a beam across an opening. See my crude rendering below.

[Raynian]

builddispenser

An enemy is using your dispenser!

[Iggy]

Dispensers can be avoided, but the positive is that they could be used as a bomb. The idea being forwarded isn't a bad one, but would need some refining before being tested/implemented.

[CINodras]

It's an interesting idea, and I think it would be very useful. However I find the regular grenades when I'm playing engineer to be very handy, and I would be sad to see them replaced. Perhaps it would be better if this were another buildable, and limited to only one per life?

Since 2.43 I've found the engineer to be really quite powerful, so I do suspect that this could throw balance badly out of whack if the regular grenades were kept in, and this added... so many things effect so many others. The mind boggles! How do you devs manage!

[Crazycarl]

Originally Posted by CINodras

so many things effect so many others. The mind boggles! How do you devs manage!

We don't worry about it. Servers ops just revert all the changes we make anyway.

[Gwarsbane]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

We don't worry about it. Servers ops just revert all the changes we make anyway.

Maybe when the server owners change certain things back due to demand, the things that were changed were not as good as the dev team thought they were and/or they didn't like the reason given for the removal/change of the item.




Anyway, no need to take way his grenade, just make this a level 2 upgrade for the dispenser. It sends out a beam from the left and right side of it that helps detect the enemy.

If they go through it, it alerts. If they blow it up, its still alerting your team.

If a spy sabs it, it could pick up friendly players as enemy and just ignore actual enemy players.

[reaper18]

Originally Posted by Gwarsbane

Maybe when the server owners change certain things back due to demand, the things that were changed were not as good as the dev team thought they were and/or they didn't like the reason given for the removal/change of the item.

Pretty much what your saying is "The game is obviously wrong because we reverted back to 2.41. Fix It. You should know what you did wrong."
They fixed all these things people were complaining about, and yet here we are again.. You talk about 'demand', yet people got what they demanded for. If its not what you wanted, why are you being so passive agressive? Give your two cents. The devs do listen, believe it or not.

[Gwarsbane]

Originally Posted by reaper18

Pretty much what your saying is "The game is obviously wrong because we reverted back to 2.41. Fix It. You should know what you did wrong."
They fixed all these things people were complaining about, and yet here we are again.. You talk about 'demand', yet people got what they demanded for. If its not what you wanted, why are you being so passive agressive? Give your two cents. The devs do listen, believe it or not.

I have said what I wanted and what I have heard others say in other threads. What more can I do? I don't have time enough to be part of the beta testing.

Would you prefer I was aggressive like some others here have been and call people names when I don't like their ideas? Or be passive and not say anything at all?


I don't remember any one asking for the nail grenade to be replaced. The replacement that they came up with, while a neat idea, was no where near deadly or effective enough. The only time it seems to kill is when someone is really low in health. It can be easily dodged. either by staying out of its really limited range or just jumping over the 3 slow moving lasers.

Others and myself have made suggests on how to improve it. Second set of beams moving in the opposite direction, longer distance on the lasers, moving up and down farther then it does now, and some sort of explosion at the end that could do some damage.




I seen a few people say they didn't like the spy grenade but its mainly because they don't like their screen being messed with. So instead of replacing it with something that might be just as useful, the devs just removed it. Only reasons they gave was "it didn't fit with the game" or "it would give the spy away".

They never said "because the majority of people hate it and want it gone".

Seeing as how the spy grenade has been in since at least TFC days, more then likely before then that first excuse doesn't make sense. And the second excuse that it gives the spy away... well so does the back stab, so does standing next to an sg/dispenser just before it gets sabbed, a sabbed sg/dispenser does, running by an sg and tossing a couple of grenades does too... lots of things give away that a spy is in the area.

The heavy slow grenade, that was a neat idea, and I do like it, but I would think that would be more for the scout the way it is now (to slow people behind him).

When I think heavy, I think heavy firepower and damage. Most of the time I seen the slow grenade go to waste, using being thrown long before or after the scout goes through. Maybe they could have it so that its something like the demo pipes where they could throw it out like a normal grenade, but instead of it automatically going off they could right click and set it off within say 15 seconds of them throwing it out. It would make it harder to dodge, easier for the heavy with defense.



Now back to the idea for the engi. Like I said, I want to keep his grenades. So giving the dispenser a second level, that could be used like the original idea would be much better.

[Crazycarl]

Like I said, it doesn't matter what we do because people just go back to the old shit. It really frees me up to do other things with my spare time.

[oaties]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Like I said, it doesn't matter what we do because people just go back to the old shit. It really frees me up to do other things with my spare time.

Maybe people wouldn't have to revert if you guys just stayed true to Team Fortress and stopped changing shit and adding in stupid things. I think its about time to revert back to 1.11.

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by oaties

Maybe people wouldn't have to revert if you guys just stayed true to Team Fortress and stopped changing shit and adding in stupid things. I think its about time to revert back to 1.11.

Um, they are staying true to TF. If you wanted TF or TFC then why not play them? Graphics aren't an issue for you since you play FF.

Team Fortress, a game with two teams fighting against each other with 9 different classes. That is a Team Fortress Game. Not, OMG IT HAS TO BE TFC OR IT SUCKS.

Also, if FF isn't being true to TF/TFC then why do you play TF2 so much.Eh?

[NeonLight]

Don't get him started Ricey, he helps with TF2C which he maps for (aka ports other peoples maps and calls himself a mapper)

[reaper18]

Ya know, i used to have this idea in my head. This idea where FF needed to resemble TFC in almost every aspect otherwise the idea was shit.
Well then one day i woke up and realised that, hey, maybe this isnt TFC?
IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF A NEW ERA OF MY LIFE.
Suddenly, things started to make sense, and i slowly adapted to this new perspective.
From this change i have learned that if you want to make this game popular and stick out from the rest, well, you cant direct port a previous game that is now barren compared to its prime; Theres nothing wrong with being different. (Just ask ricey what its like being gay AND a jew, kudos man, that must be tough :P )
If we keep the game how it is now, it will stay that way. Pretty much staying with less than 100 people online at one time during peak hours will slowly kill this mod.
I know its hard to accept, but new ideas and thoughts can be brought onto this game to make it something tenfold of what it is today. The one thing FF has that many now dead mods dont is that potential. Im not saying its not a great game, it is, but it has always had the right mechanics and gameplay ideas that have kept it going. Some of these ideas arent groundbreaking or innovative, but if you add either of those factors, FF will be something that truly stands out among the rest and will find its way to the top.
Also, hint hint, maybe if some of the community could step behind the dev team and support them on, whats it called again.... oh yea: CONTINUED WORK AND SUPPORT ON FF.. Then maybe theyd be more inclined to listen?
Its pretty retarded how people come in and say "oh btw, i hate the changes you made, its stupid and its not like TFC"
Let me put this into lehman's terms for ya:
Its not tfc brah.
and as for ideas being 'stupid' or 'not in demand'
Contribute to conversations about future class changes? Perhaps do that thing called constructive critism? If you dont know what that is, its where people explain why they dont like a particular idea and how it doesnt fit the gameplay, and maybe even propose your own ideas on how to fix it or a better alternative.
/rant

[NeonLight]

Originally Posted by reaper18

big rant that I don't want to fill the page with

I completely agree with everything you said. Well put.

[oaties]

Originally Posted by reaper18

If we keep the game how it is now, it will stay that way. Pretty much staying with less than 100 people online at one time during peak hours will slowly kill this mod.

What are you trying to say? You do realize that most of the players quit after 2.0 was released, which was the first major patch that moved the game away from Team Fortress Classic?

Most TFC players don't play Fortress Forever because it is not like TFC. I always see TFC players criticizing FF for things like jump pads, laser grens, no conc aim etc. You might not realize it, but TFC has much more players than FF. There are multiple pubs that are full all day and there are constant 4v4 pickups on two IRC channels throughout the day as well as occasional 8v8 pickups. Most of these players would come to FF if it was like TFC.

Oh well.

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by NeoNL

Don't get him started Ricey, he helps with TF2C which he maps for (aka ports other peoples maps and calls himself a mapper)

He doesn't even know how to do displacements. LOLWAT.

Originally Posted by oaties

What are you trying to say? You do realize that most of the players quit after 2.0 was released, which was the first major patch that moved the game away from Team Fortress Classic?

Most TFC players don't play Fortress Forever because it is not like TFC. I always see TFC players criticizing FF for things like jump pads, laser grens, no conc aim etc. You might not realize it, but TFC has much more players than FF. There are multiple pubs that are full all day and there are constant 4v4 pickups on two IRC channels throughout the day as well as occasional 8v8 pickups. Most of these players would come to FF if it was like TFC.

Oh well.

Um, who cares. TFC is TFC, FF is not TFC. Stop being so butt hurt that it's not TFC. This is not 1999 bitch, get over it.

[episkopos]

Originally Posted by oaties

What are you trying to say? You do realize that most of the players quit after 2.0 was released, which was the first major patch that moved the game away from Team Fortress Classic?

Most TFC players don't play Fortress Forever because it is not like TFC. I always see TFC players criticizing FF for things like jump pads, laser grens, no conc aim etc. You might not realize it, but TFC has much more players than FF. There are multiple pubs that are full all day and there are constant 4v4 pickups on two IRC channels throughout the day as well as occasional 8v8 pickups. Most of these players would come to FF if it was like TFC.

Oh well.

Why is it the developers' fault that TFC players are whiny bitches? None of the things you list are major alterations. Jump pads are more balanced teleporters. Laser grenades are nail grenades which you can use skill to dodge (something players of this game and TFC seem obsessed with compared to, say, fun). Conc aim is a stupid skill: it's no fun to learn, and learning it gives you a wildly disproportionate advantage.

[moosh]

Originally Posted by reaper18

this post

Finally, someone who doesn't speak retard on these forums.

+1

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by oaties

Maybe people wouldn't have to revert if you guys just stayed true to Team Fortress and stopped changing shit and adding in stupid things. I think its about time to revert back to 1.11.

Well from my perspective:

1.0 - 1.11 = great
2.0 - 2.41 = friends quit FF, balance is steadily destroyed, game becomes less fun
2.42 - 2.43 = great

[Iggy]

The thing is, TFC isn't TF(the original Quake mod) any more than FF is TFC. (Q)TF was what it was, and really, what started it all. TFC was probably the most popular version of the genre(so far), and is still pretty damned fun to play(on the few servers that exist). FF is simply a natural progression in the list of Fortress games. The difference between these 3 games is this: QTF is done, TFC is done, FF is not. When I say "done", I don't mean ended.... I mean as in "finished". If Valve went back to TFC, and radically changed the game, people would go straight-up apeshit. Fortress Forever is basicly in both a closed beta(future changes), and an open beta(current public version).

If you don't like the changes that have been implemented so far, for fucks sake, SAY SO! Don't come here and flame the devs and testers over it... state your opinion in a respectfull way, and suggest positive changes that you would like to see implemented. If you come up with a viable idea, it will be considered. But understand, the more complex the idea, the longer it will take to debate and possibly implement for testing. Given the limited time the Devs have, not every idea is going to make it to the coding stage.