(Released) Game Rules

[R00Kie]

Game rules are server-side scripts that modify game play. Some are useful, others pointless fun. If anyone has any questions or problems feel free to post. If someone has an idea they would like implemented on their server, I am willing to help. Enjoy


How to Install

• game_rules
  
  Unzip this into your FortressForever/maps/ folder. These are the basic game rules files that will tell the server which scripts you want to run. You can comment out the ones you don't want to use with a double dash "--" in front of that IncludeScript.
  
  Example:
  

  -- For CTF game mode put the include script here
  if GAMEMODE == "CTF" then
  	-- IncludeScript("game_force_ovd") -- Won't be used
  	IncludeScript("game_auto_balance")
  end
  
  -- For all game modes put the include script here
  IncludeScript("game_afk")
  --IncludeScript("game_spawn_safety") -- Don't use this

  To activate game_rules on your server use the CVAR below. Also make sure it is added to your server config file.
  

  sv_globalluascript game_rules

• Note: base_ctf & base_ctf4
  
  These are base files included with Fortress Forever, I added a single variable to them that I can detect for use with other files. Their main function remains unchanged and can be overwritten.
  
  
• Download
  game_rules.zip @Google.Drive

Adding Mods

Put all mods in your FortressForever/maps/includes/ folder and add the appropriate IncludeScript("Game_name") To your game_rules.lua. There is an example above.

• game_afk - Download Link
  
  Will send a player to spectator after about 2 minutes of not moving. Can be used on any game mode.
  

  local CHECK_AFK = 30 -- How often in seconds it checks to see if a player is AFK
  local IDLE_TIME = 120 -- How long in seconds it takes to go AFK
  local MESSAGE_TIMER = 10 -- Starts counting down when the timer reaches this number

• game_spawn_safety - Download Link
  
  Makes a player Immune to damage for a few seconds after spawning or until they attack another player. Can be used on any game mode.
  

  local IMMUNE_TIME = 3

• game_auto_balance - Download Link
  
  Prevents a player from joining a team that will make it unbalanced. Currently set up to only work on CTF with Red and Blue teams. Unknown what will happen if you try to use it on any other game modes.
  
  
• game_force_ovd - Download Link
  
  Forces an Offense vs Defense game mode. With Blue as Offense and Red as Defense. The Red team will be unable to touch the Blue flag until the player threshold is met. Used on CTF game mode with Red and Blue teams.
  

  local PLAYERS_NEEDED = 10

  
  
  
  
• game_ff_armor - Download Link
  
  Armor-Only friendly fire. Mirror damage or Team only damage available.
  

  TEAM_DAMAGE_ALLOWED = true
  TEAM_DAMAGE = 5 -- Divide damage by this much for less armor removed.
  
  MIRROR_DAMAGE_ALLOWED = true
  MIRROR_DAMAGE = 5 -- Divide damage by this much for less armor removed.

• game_readyup - Download Link
  
  Puts players on a ready screen, in which they must type "r" (Or other modified chat message) to indicate they are ready to play. Begins a countdown when all players on both teams are ready. Only works during prematch.
  

  local PrematchTime = 999
  local UsefulTip = "Type 'r' when you are ready to start the match."
  local ChatStrings = { "r", "ready", "start", "go" }  -- Strings to use for a player to accept being ready

  
  
  
• game_duels - Download Link
  
  When two enemy players are within melee range of each other and hold "use" simultaneously. They will engage in a one on one duel. They will restock life and ammo. Outsiders can't interrupt them and they cant hurt outsiders until the duel is over. First player to kill the other; wins, or until 30 seconds is up then a random winner is chosen.
  

  local REQUEST_RADIUS = 128
  local FIGHT_TIME = 30
  
  local USE_OBJECTIVEICON = true
  local RESTOCK_PLAYER = true

[DarthMan]

Nice but you could improve the ovd lua to also support green and yellow depending on map.(this is not the reason it was removed from Moto's you know , it's because it confused new players)

[R00Kie]

Agreed, I'd like to add support for all teams. If someone wants to add a script on their server full time I'd be happy to try to help them modify it to their needs.

[truplaya]

I would like to see more organized and possibly forced pub play as well especially when it comes to new comers not understanding the dynamics of the game and the objectives for a given map whether mostly on CTF maps. Pub games are 60% of the time "snoresville" (word of HIR), "I agree." (cake).

Currently in pubs, many new players have no sense of what the objective is and they run around the map in yard and their own base and hardly hold to the objective and teamwork. They choose classes that aren't optimal to win the game and we have snoresville.

To help assist in organizing a quality pub game, I would like to experiment with OVD only maps that have no blue base except for a blue cap. I would also like to create a team switch in OVD mode at the halfway time on a given map.

Moto-- robust has a half map destroy edit he created. It only has a red base, yard and blue cap in the blue base. The rest of the blue base is walled off. This map setup along with objective info at game join would assist in keeping new players on the objective hopefully.

I think that an objective info page upon joining is very important to tell players what to do and suggest what classes to choose and well as other server info.

As far as class restrictions go for offense and Defense I don't know if I want to address this yet because of the possible new changes that were gonna see in the new update making more classes balanced and acceptable in competitive play. I also don't want to kill the artistic element that a versatile engy can bring (matt). Or an offensive sniper or D snipe (the King). Its just hard when you have no frontline D and a full health offensive demo / soldier / HW or engy comes into your base just to spam you out when u are D and it just doesn't feel right . Also some maps like well depend on offensive demos to open grates / walls etc.. So we cant really restrict classes easily seemingly.

BUT WHAT I DO THINK WOULD BE SO COOL IS....if in OVD mode, at the half way time mark in the map, teams would switch. So if you were on blue and your team only scored 100 caps, the halfway mark would hit and u would switch to D and have to hold the offensive team 90 to win.

I really like the forced OVD mode on motos, but a problem with pub OVD at the moment is you never feel like you've won really there's very little measurement to decipher the winning team. Most OVD rounds are just like 230 - O there is no real baseline for judgment about what team really won, its just kind of a sit through and just stop the scouts / meds over and over.... It's just hard to tell who really won a game...makes it feel mindless + mundane.... The team switch at the mid round might help determine a winner for the round, motivating players more....

[R00Kie]

Making teams switch at halfway wouldn't be too hard. So both teams have a chance to play offense and defense in an OvD manner. Which is probably a good idea because sometimes it does just feel you are running to your death with no point. Perhaps adding an objective notice when you spawn would be helpful for new players. The objective icons can tricky when you add them, you want to give players information on how to play but not too much information. Like where the flag is at ALL times is probably too much information. But where it spawns at would be useful to a new player.

As far as decompiling an entire map just to get rid of the blue base to make OVD easier to understand for new players seems like a hassle and a waste of time. I could do something similar with lua without the need of ripping apart current maps only for OVD mode. Currently I just prevented players from touching the flag. But I could prevent them from entering the wrong base entirely, given that locations are set up correctly. With Default maps they probably are. If Moto is interested in adding something like this to his server, well, all these other scripts were basicly made for his server so all he needs to do is ask. lol

[truplaya]

To compliment these ideas we could have player initiated votes for clan mode/ovd mode, and free for all pub mode. I think that would please the masses more as well. I like the idea of flexibility. Yea rookie I'm excited if we could get pubs more constructive and organized or at least just motos. I also like how you can adjust map boundaries with lua as well if that would be more simple. Where's moto , wat does he think?

[FDA_Approved]

I think one mistake you're making is in thinking that anyone wants to take the pub as seriously as you.

I honestly think restricting the pub is one of the worst ideas and I don't really get why you don't just put more of an effort into playing pickups rather than trying to shoehorn people into playing how you think they should. I mean most of our "oh so hallowed" ovd rules are broken by people who've played this game the longest.

And while I'd really like for new players to be able to learn the ways of the game I don't think this is really the way to do it, and could potentially be more confusing than helpful to new players. I feel as though it's better to just let players learn certain things in their own time if they are interested or invested enough. As painful as it is to say that, while at the same time we do watch new players come in and go dm scout, and try to kill soldiers but get stomped, all the while you're trying to somewhat politely tell them scout isn't a dm class, at which point they either ignore you or say "I know!", but still continuing down that self destructive path.

Also we can only hope that after the steam release we can see a couple few pubs, and I can only imagine enforcing ovd for two teams in a full pub would be a complete mess. And I would really really like to see more full pub action with both teams running offense rather than 10 red in foyar 1 red pyro in yard and the cluster fuck that ensues.

All in all I don't think it's a very good way to teach players, and I definitely don't think everyone is trying to be an oj super star in the pub as you might think.

[R00Kie]

With Motos server being the ONLY us pub server. It's really hard to please everyone's game play preferences. Hopefully with a steam release and more servers to choose from players can have the choice not to play in a server that they don't like.

I think it's silly to have hidden rules and boundaries that only people who are in the "know" know about. OvD is one of them, but it's what we have forced on our self with the limited amount of players we have to play with. Yes, I enjoy playing with some amount of structured game play. Pickups are obviously too strict for the general population. That is why I was trying to make scripts that give more structure to the game but not limit it as much as a pickup does. From your example: Instead of having a scout trying to run around on Defense trying to DM people. Why not just disable the scout? I guess your point is: let people make bad choices and learn from them. Mine is: if possible, just don't allow them to make bad choices.

FF has a huge learning curve and really new players are going to have a hard time no matter what is going on. If on steam release we get such a huge influx of players that scrips like these are no longer wanted then that's great. But I made these by Moto's request and thought it would be fun to gain some experience with FF Lua. Not try to bend the will of the community to my liking.

I don't think Moto even uses most of these scripts on his server anymore. But really that's great, he did a test run and decided they didn't work out so he turned them off. If he wanted to try out others or tweak them to better suit how he runs his server. I'm always up for change and trying something new.

[FDA_Approved]

Actually no I'm not suggestion people will learn from their mistakes, I actually don't have enough faith in the average new player to go on some scout DM runs, realize it's not working out, and then objectively think about what the scouts role might actually be.

Although they would likely get frustrated enough to try something else . My point in that anecdote was actually how even when confronted with advice and direction a lot of people just don't give enough of a shit. It's not that maybe they'll learn, some of them already know. It's just if they want to do that kind of stupid shit, might as well let them and work around them, ignore them entirely.

This whole D scout, O hw thing is blown waaaaay out of proportion, some of our players take offense to it as if you had physically harmed their family. When the truth is it's rarely, if ever, a big deal. It's not necessarily disruptive, and we can almost always run a competent game while the one or two people explore their own little world.

I do want new players to learn, but I don't think restriction is the way to do it. Mainly because it doesn't even address the real problem, only parts of it. While disabling D scout does send the message that scout is an offense class, it still doesn't paint the picture that the scout has no DM capabilities and needs to be able to occasionally conc and bhop somewhat decently to be effective. And if you think players can readily infer that information from restricted game modes then they'd probly be able to pick up that concept in general and we wouldn't have this problem.

I just feel like it'd be potentially confusing and frustrating. I feel as though new players would have a better time being bad at the game doing what they want, rather than being bad at the game being forced into something.

[truplaya]

"All in all I don't think it's a very good way to teach players, and I definitely don't think everyone is trying to be an oj super star in the pub as you might think."

"I think one mistake you're making is in thinking that anyone wants to take the pub as seriously as you."

Thanks FDA.

Anyways attacks and nonproductive comments aside... I am just here to try to suggest new ideas to bring new energy and ideas into my favorite game that is in the process of being improved. I am excited and want to have input because we have the privilege of communicating with devs on here and having our ideas being heard and possibly implemented.... I am just putting my voice out there...As i hope everyone will who still cares and I do thank you for your opinions FDA I just think you could have been a little less rude bout it... but some good ideas and improvements will come from all our voices and influences whether we disagree or agree...

I wish pickups were still cracking, but in the last 2 months since i have come back from my year or more hiatus, they are very rare to extinct. I idle constantly and add frequently lately, just get nothing outta it... Lately I am seeing energy only in pubs, that's why I am here focusing on pubs writing in this thread. Hopefully we will have more options after the update...

I personally like the game rules and various things rookie and others have taken the time to create for motos server. Motos server is the only place where people play this game anymore really, so they must be doing something right. I really like the OVD mod and hope we can keep creating things to make the game more objective based and organized...as well as intuitive for new players....I just want to talk about these ideas and come to conclusions.. Implementing them is another story all together and is in the hands of the devs...

[FDA_Approved]

I don't know if you could make a more biased, defensive, "holier than thou" post. I did make a couple of light jabs at you, but it implies, and goes on with the general theme of my opinion, that some of these ideas support making a play ground for a certain type of player, rather than being in the best interest of general pub fun. That's the general idea I've mirrored in my previous posts in a pretty straight forward manner, barring a couple direct comments. Take it or leave it, it's just my opinion.

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by FDA_Approved

Actually no I'm not suggestion people will learn from their mistakes, I actually don't have enough faith in the average new player to go on some scout DM runs, realize it's not working out, and then objectively think about what the scouts role might actually be.

Although they would likely get frustrated enough to try something else . My point in that anecdote was actually how even when confronted with advice and direction a lot of people just don't give enough of a shit. It's not that maybe they'll learn, some of them already know. It's just if they want to do that kind of stupid shit, might as well let them and work around them, ignore them entirely.

This whole D scout, O hw thing is blown waaaaay out of proportion, some of our players take offense to it as if you had physically harmed their family. When the truth is it's rarely, if ever, a big deal. It's not necessarily disruptive, and we can almost always run a competent game while the one or two people explore their own little world.

I do want new players to learn, but I don't think restriction is the way to do it. Mainly because it doesn't even address the real problem, only parts of it. While disabling D scout does send the message that scout is an offense class, it still doesn't paint the picture that the scout has no DM capabilities and needs to be able to occasionally conc and bhop somewhat decently to be effective. And if you think players can readily infer that information from restricted game modes then they'd probly be able to pick up that concept in general and we wouldn't have this problem.

I just feel like it'd be potentially confusing and frustrating. I feel as though new players would have a better time being bad at the game doing what they want, rather than being bad at the game being forced into something.

Learning through discovery rather than having it force fed is usually the best way to go, but that's not to say when something changes it is always a bad thing. And if someone only ever learns enough to be mediocre, who am I to judge or try to say one way or another how the game should be played. People tend to do whatever they want anyway.

[Iggy]

Many of todays gamers want flashy things, and instant gratification. They don't want to "learn" shit, they want to press a button and be awesome. This game doesn't, and I hope never will, cater to that mentality. It takes time to develop the skill and knowledge to be good at this game(like TFC and QWTF before it). If the player doesn't want to learn, no amount of regulating is going to change that.

[the_cake]

Civilian has never been a selectable class on any map where he isn't part of the game mode, and even then he's only playable on the relevant team. As far back as tfc there have never been complaints of "why can't I play civilian on hunted as assassins or defenders? I'm sick of this game telling me what to do!"

Why do you guys think that is?

[truplaya]

So it's starting to look like most aren't in favor of restrictions in pub play which is understandable...I agree with the notions of FDA, Kube and Iggy for the most part. People are gonna be either gripped by the game and inspired to be competitive and learn the game, or just hop around yard D'ing in pubs with no intention of winning or recognizing the scoreboard..Who's to say what's appropriate or the most fun way to play..In pubs freedom is #1 and people are going to do what they want..

The only reason I might side more with pub restrictions currently is because the majority of the active players still left are competitive based rather than just free for all, and with a hurting pickup scene and only pubs being played, where do we go from here? I kind of went into this thread forgetting all the big changes ahead....

Hopefully in the coming weeks/months with the big update ahead pubs can be pubs and the pickup scene will get a breath of fresh air and provide the competitive play us regulars prefer...Which also leads me to think that we might be wasting some energy here until the update comes out and we evaluate from there...

I guess currently i just miss more constant competition and organized play, because lately we haven't been getting it in the pickup scene anymore...It is kind of foolish to expect those things in a pub, but every once and again the good regulars come in and we will have a couple great pub rounds when people try and are competitive and organized... The server mods and restrictions have been mildly helpful and interesting to toy with.... How do we know whats good for FF if we never change or try new things?

I still would like to see the OVD mode half way mark team switch tho, i wanna try that and think it would be worth a shot messin with if anything else comes from this thread.....Ideally it would be voteable and flexible and not as restricting unless the given servers players preferred it.

[KubeDawg]

I still have a few restrictions, but I removed the OvD mode because it was more confusing to new players than before. I felt myself having to continue explaining why teams were the way they were and it kinda of had the opposite effect I had expected. However, there are still some restrictions that are interesting and worth keeping such as team stack prevention or spawn protection.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by the_cake

Civilian has never been a selectable class on any map where he isn't part of the game mode, and even then he's only playable on the relevant team. As far back as tfc there have never been complaints of "why can't I play civilian on hunted as assassins or defenders? I'm sick of this game telling me what to do!"

Why do you guys think that is?

Apples to oranges.

Civilian is the target in Hunted. Civilian works on escape maps for the same reason: Specialization. It's there for a specific purpose, and has no other.

Other classes, not so much. Yes, Scout and Medic are rated for Offense, and heavier classes for Defense... BUT, they *CAN* be effective if they reverse roles. I've seen games where a Solly/Demo/HW on O were very effective at taking down the enemy D, and assisting the lighter/faster classes get the flag out. That's why OvD/I-D maps are effective. You work as a TEAM to complete the objective. Even DMing noobs are helpful there.

[the_cake]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Apples to oranges.

Civilian is the target in Hunted. Civilian works on escape maps for the same reason: Specialization. It's there for a specific purpose, and has no other.

So what if we applied that paradigm to CTF? It would be forced ovd, scout would only have concs, demo could only pipe the flag, everyone else would only have 1-2 weapons, you could have scout/medic/spy on o, sol/hw/demo/engi on d. Everyone is there for a purpose and has a specific role.

This would piss everyone off to the point of probably ending the game.

But we do the same thing on hunted. And in CS. And in Cops and Robbers in pre-school.

In a game about protecting generic assassination target guy (mob boss, president, who knows) we don't question why gameplay is restricted to portray him as what he is (you can only have 1, you can't fight, you can't move fast) or why the assassins are portrayed as assassins (you can only play as sniper or spy, you can only use sniper rifle, tranq, or knife against the hunted), or why the entire objective is to assassinate a target.

cwuttheydid there? They shoved their restrictive gameplay elements down everyone's throats without anyone noticing. This is the game design concept of "themeing," that is you present your game as something commonly understood (assassinating an important person) and draw parallels to it in the actual gameplay. When you do this, most people (specifically new players or new gamers) see the theme and not the game design, and will rarely question any kind of game design choice as long as it fits the theme; it doesn't even have to be a very good design, as long as it fits.

Team Fortress implies defending, and by extension invading a fortress of some kind. And that's kinda it. Most people can put 2+2 together and understand the flag and command points are the gameplay elements meant to represent this.

But you know that thing that exists outside of Fortress where healers and scouters pickup shotguns and jump on grenades to fly through the enemy base, or where your core defender appear to be Ted Kaczynski, or where jumping let's you ignore the laws of physics in weirdly specific ways?

Yea neither does anyone else. Best gameplay ever, but also worst themeing ever.

This makes limitations in favor of organized fortress gameplay look arbitrary, and makes the player feel like they're being nannied for no reason. They just don't understand it, but they're new and the only direction being provided is akin to mom telling them "do your homework Jimmy, you'll thank me when you're older."

That's half of the reason why this approach always blows up in our faces. With this you're kind of left with the hope that some players will take up the old-school gamer ethic and invest time learning for themselves how the game works, and being inspired by players who already have. Though that doesn't seem to have worked very well unfotunately.

[Iggy]

I'm not advocating "nannying" the game... quite the opposite. Certain game modes work that way, and that's fine. I like those modes, plus I like the chaos that can ensue in general pub CTF games.

You did mention the "old school" mentality, and yeah, I'm old school. I like games that are replayable. I have grown to seriously dislike the disposable games that are coming out. You play through, beat it, and on to the next game. That's why I love TFC, FF, and thousands of other games. They stay fresh, even though the game doesn't change much. Hell, I've spent 18 straight hours on a TFC server, playing the same map, and not gotten bored. Because it's ever changing in players, skill levels, etc.

Like I said a few replies ago, many of todays gamers want to press a button and be instantly gratified. Yes, that's a problem, and I have no idea how to solve it.

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by the_cake

So what if we applied that paradigm to CTF? It would be forced ovd, scout would only have concs, demo could only pipe the flag, everyone else would only have 1-2 weapons, you could have scout/medic/spy on o, sol/hw/demo/engi on d. Everyone is there for a purpose and has a specific role.

This would piss everyone off to the point of probably ending the game.

But we do the same thing on hunted. And in CS. And in Cops and Robbers in pre-school.

In a game about protecting generic assassination target guy (mob boss, president, who knows) we don't question why gameplay is restricted to portray him as what he is (you can only have 1, you can't fight, you can't move fast) or why the assassins are portrayed as assassins (you can only play as sniper or spy, you can only use sniper rifle, tranq, or knife against the hunted), or why the entire objective is to assassinate a target.

cwuttheydid there? They shoved their restrictive gameplay elements down everyone's throats without anyone noticing. This is the game design concept of "themeing," that is you present your game as something commonly understood (assassinating an important person) and draw parallels to it in the actual gameplay. When you do this, most people (specifically new players or new gamers) see the theme and not the game design, and will rarely question any kind of game design choice as long as it fits the theme; it doesn't even have to be a very good design, as long as it fits.

Team Fortress implies defending, and by extension invading a fortress of some kind. And that's kinda it. Most people can put 2+2 together and understand the flag and command points are the gameplay elements meant to represent this.

But you know that thing that exists outside of Fortress where healers and scouters pickup shotguns and jump on grenades to fly through the enemy base, or where your core defender appear to be Ted Kaczynski, or where jumping let's you ignore the laws of physics in weirdly specific ways?

Yea neither does anyone else. Best gameplay ever, but also worst themeing ever.

This makes limitations in favor of organized fortress gameplay look arbitrary, and makes the player feel like they're being nannied for no reason. They just don't understand it, but they're new and the only direction being provided is akin to mom telling them "do your homework Jimmy, you'll thank me when you're older."

That's half of the reason why this approach always blows up in our faces. With this you're kind of left with the hope that some players will take up the old-school gamer ethic and invest time learning for themselves how the game works, and being inspired by players who already have. Though that doesn't seem to have worked very well unfotunately.

I could say a lot of things that would seem contradictory of my previous points, about how this example is more obvious, and there for more acceptable. So I'll just say I don't think it's so black and white.

I'd also say that if hunted were played as much as ctf, as in hunted is only played and there's no servers where you can play anything else, people would get tired of playing certain classes and probly lament the restrictions. Hunted restrictions probly also see a higher degree of acceptance due to the over all novelty of it. Kind of like playing heads up 7 up in the 2nd grade. You're teacher really just wants everyone to put their heads down and stfu, but you're more willing to go along with that because it's a game now, and not the same school work you've been doing all day.

I mean basically what you're proposing is that the game be mechanically defined by the pickup standard. And even though in the opinion of a few, me included, that's the best way to play, I don't know if there's a way to do that which I can agree with. Or even scales well into full games.

Tbh I'm not really against the idea entirely, just using it on our one and only pub server. CS has strict competitive style pubs, that's great and that's something I'd love to see in FF, if we had that type of community to support all sorts of public play. I guess progressing along this line is a valuable learning experience and could provide us with a great variety of gaming options, I don't deny that nor am I against it. Just that while we have one pub I would prefer to see it more open.

Another thing to consider, is even if this is the way that a majority of our current pub scene plays, plenty of them still take quite hostile to it. Anything remotely "competitive" sounding has the potential of sparking quite the ire.