Looking for players to play TFC style TF2

[Bridget]

Did you guys get Valve's permission before working on Fortress Forever?

[moosh]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Did you guys get Valve's permission before working on Fortress Forever?

really

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Did you guys get Valve's permission before working on Fortress Forever?

...they provided us with the SDK.

Not sure what you're getting at here. We didn't take anything from Team Fortress (note "Fortress Forever" does not even include the name "Team Fortress") except the class/weapon names. Are you saying the class names are property of Valve?

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Did you guys get Valve's permission before working on Fortress Forever?

Alternative post:

YouTube

YouTube

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by caesium

it's a shame to have to say this, but use of other people's work or clear derivatives of their work is illegal unless you get their consent (if it's not already given in the release conditions).

Actually it's not black and white like that, unless you specifically state that its use in other works is prohibited. You're releasing the mod for free. The files are easily accessed. In court one could argue that its use elsewhere was implied because of this. Where does it state that other modders need permission to use your content? If it doesn't, it could be interpreted as forfeiting that right.

Even if you DID state that work could not be used without permission, even THAT could be undermined via Valve if they chose to assert themselves, since the intellectual property of FF was never 100% yours.

Work is copied blatantly all the time, what it comes down to is who has an established copyright to it. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a dick move as well, but you don't really have a lot of legal ground to stand on unless you established some sort of copyright. It can be as simple as saying "don't use these files elsewhere without permission" before the fact, but without that, what they did isn't necessarily illegal.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by squeek.

...they provided us with the SDK.

If I give you green ink and means of production, are you then justified in counterfeiting money?

[Iggy]

Intellectual property is a whole 'nother matter. For example; I have written several "fan fiction" stories based on characters and universes created by someone else. The stories I created are MY intellectual property, even if the characters/et al are not.

A map is a digital property, not necessarilly an intellectual one, if you see where I am going with this. Remember, the map we use on FF was originally ported over from TFC.

We can argue semantics about this, but I don't really see anything that can be done about it.

[Born_In_Xixax]

Thinking about a distribution/use license for FF might be a good idea if there isn't one, unless you really don't care if others uses the content indiscriminately (including ripping off the whole project and selling it for money.)

Since it's a HL2 mod, the intellectual property rights may have some relationship or derive from the distribution/use rights of the HL2 SDK. Probably you can just cut/paste the license used by other mod projects out there.

Using a FF map during personal development of TF2C should be no problem (fair use.) Posting a video of said testing without some attribution for FF is less cool. Distributing TF2C with the FF map completely or mostly intact without even attribution is grounds for action and is way uncool.

[oaties]

There are only like 2 FF maps, just because of the ease of porting. We have many maps that are directly copied from TFC, our mapper was the guy who made the TFC 2fort for FF.

[Ricey]

By installing this game, you are legally bound not to engage in the following behaviors:

1) Crouching up and down on a dead player, colloquially known as "teabagging".

2) Saying "Boom, HEAD SHOT!" or any variation or derivative thereof after scoring a headshot.

3) Mentioning in any way or form exactly who it was that may or may not have let the dogs out.

4) Telling new players about non-existant locations or features, like "Hidden Doors #3 and #4 on ff_hunted" or "The secret portal in that chasm below the plank in ff_shutdown".

5) Teabagging. Seriously, stop that shit, this isn't HALO.

6) Consuming the corn in ff_cornfield

7) Use as a contraceptive device

8) Using the Game as a tool for sexual arousal

6) Also, you may not use Fortress Forever as a tool to desensitize yourself to violence. Should this program be found on the computer of anyone planning, or having executed, a school shooting, we are NOT responsible for such actions.

7) Do NOT taunt Happy Fun Ball.

5) Consult Physician if Pregnant or Lactating. This is especially true for males.

3) You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of missiles, or nuclear, chemical or biological weapons.

0) Be sure to take frequent breaks from gaming to grab more Red Bull and Dew.

9) ... and Pizza

X) Any person having a grievance of any type against this product, may seek a refund for the full purchase price.

11) Sexual Intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo Chimpanzee society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food.

dozen) The G-Man is watching you...

13) ... masturbate

14) Any remarks in regards to another player being "gay", a "fag", or otherwise, are an immediate admittance to taking it up the behind.....

XV) ... or being a bonobo

will get you 20) ... who is being watched by the G-man.

17) She's Only

18) For indoor or outdoor use only

19) When there are plenty of sniping spots available, you will not snipe RIGHT NEXT TO another Sniper........find your own spot, and keep out of his way.

20) You will not quit the game after playing for 10 minutes and dying 50 times.

21) Other players will play music if they want to hear it.......you do not need to sing for them.

22) Voice chat is not for you to hear your own voice.

23) You will not eat Taco Bell right before a long match.

24) You will not use the excuse "I had to itch my balls" when you die (especially females).

1/4) The Hunted is your responsibility, not your soccer ball.

26) Duct tape can also be used for ventilation systems.

27) You will upgrade your computer......that's the whole point.

28) You will respect abilities which you do not possess. You suck at some things.

29) No, my Mom does not like you.......even sexually.

30) You cannot freebase coffee, Red Bull, or Bawls.

31) You will do at least 1 push-up a day.

32) You are not Chuck Norris.

33.33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33) This is NOT counterstirke - Shut up already!

36) The flag is not your sole possession. Share it with everyone it's not your frikkin' girlfriend! (Nevermind that she shares herself)

37) Don't make fun of the HW. It ain't easy trying to get a rep as a ruthless killer when you have a muffin top.

38, 39... whatever it takes) NO TEABAGGING! Jeez!

40) The use of this product while showering or bathing constitutes a electrocution hazard and may result in personal injury or death.

41) Caution: Filling will be HOT.

42) The answer to the universe, life and everything else!

43) Do not operate heavy machinery while using this product.

44) The public sees him as a knight in shining armor. This goes through armor ... and it goes through the victim, through the wall, through a tree outside. It's an .88 Magnum. It shoots through schools.

45) Objects is scope may be closer than they appear......wait... huh?

46) The Door is a Jar.

47) Chuck Norris plays FF In real life... with his bare hands. He catches Rockets in his teeth and shoots flames out his arse!

48) Please enjoy FF responsibly.

49) If you experience gibbing, falling, or any general discomfort or death, you may have been exposed to an overdose of rockets. Rocketosis affects 1 in 3 FF players, and if you think you're at risk, have yourself examined by the closest medic.

50) Cent

[caesium]

damn right

[CHURCHMOUTH]

i think the worst part is the fact that they are throwing it in our faces on the ff forums... hey to all the 20 ff players still remaining, come play a TF2 version of fortress forever!!! yeahhhhhhh

is there anything i can do to stop these people from taking the maps that i have made and using them in a game other than the game i made them for? serious question..

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Bridget

If I give you green ink and means of production, are you then justified in counterfeiting money?

Uh... what?

I don't follow how creating a mod is even loosely analogous to counterfeiting money (in your analogy, Valve would have given us the ink, assured us it was legal to create money with it, and encouraged us to do it).

Again, what have we taken that is copyrighted material?

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by oaties

There are only like 2 FF maps, just because of the ease of porting. We have many maps that are directly copied from TFC, our mapper was the guy who made the TFC 2fort for FF.

If you're talking about ff_dev_2fort, then that guy just took it from the beta and released it without permission from the devs (ff_dev_2fort was ported by a dev).

I strongly discourage porting maps from FF without first seeking permission from the creator of the map. If you're unsure of who created it, post a thread in the Public to Team communication forum. If you don't get permission, then take the time and make your own map for TF2.

That said, what I personally ask is that you give credit where credit is due. If you are going to port a map, make SURE you let everyone playing it know where it came from and who actually made it. Sidd and caesium worked very hard on openfire. The creators of the sounds used in FF worked very hard. The creators of the textures used in FF worked very hard. To not credit their work does a huge disservice to the entire mod community.

[Ventry(Leo Wainker)]

Originally Posted by squeek.

Uh... what?

I don't follow how creating a mod is even loosely analogous to counterfeiting money (in your analogy, Valve would have given us the ink, assured us it was legal to create money with it, and encouraged us to do it).

Again, what have we taken that is copyrighted material?

Squeek, squeek... Jeeze man.
Don't feed the BridgeTroll.

[squeek.]

What else am I going to do with all this food?

[oaties]

No, we have 2 FF maps just to see how they are played in the mod. See, the problem with FF maps is that TF2 player models at 20% larger than TFC player models, so the maps have to be made larger. Also, some maps (such as mortality) dont play well at all in the mod. Instead of taking DAYS to port it from TFC, we just ported it from FF TEMPORARILY to test it.

Look at this video:

YouTube

YouTube

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by oaties

No, we have 2 FF maps just to see how they are played in the mod. See, the problem with FF maps is that TF2 player models at 20% larger than TFC player models, so the maps have to be made larger. Also, some maps (such as mortality) dont play well at all in the mod. Instead of taking DAYS to port it from TFC, we just ported it from FF TEMPORARILY to test it.

Alright, no worries. My point still stands about credit if you do anything more than testing with them (and for things like sounds, textures, etc).

[chicken]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Ever stop to think that people will play that on TF2C, and wonder where that map came from, find out, and come try FF?

Those that already know, probably play TF2 and FF to start with. Best thing to do, is play it and educate the TF2 only players.

The only thing that bothers me, is if permission to convert the map over wasn't requested.

Credit is given on the ff_openfire map.
c/p from map description
"Steal the enemy flag while protecting your own
[1] Take enemy flag
[2] Bring to capture point in your base
Deactivate enemy security to open up additional routes to the enemy flag
SCORING: 1 point per intel capture
Team with most points at end of round wins
Map by Fortress Forever team.
Fortress Forever is a Free mod which recreates Classic Fortress gameplay.
Visit http://www.fortress-forever.com/
"

[Eon Seig]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I'll have to check this out then. While I don't like unbalanced games, I've been used to the sentries in FF being absolute shit for so long it would be refreshing to see them actually have some bite again.

TF2 sentries may have more bite, but they're a helluva alot dumber than FF sentries. They are easily countered by the following.

More than 1 person attacking at the same time.
A circle strafing Pyro.
A Pyro that's really good at reflections. Bait lvl 3 sentry to shoot, reflect rocket, Engi dies or gets catapulted across the map.
Soldier spam in the area next to the sentry, not directly at the sentry.
Demospam. Almost impossible to stop.
Ubercharges.
Corner spam of any kind.
Snipers
Point blank HWGuy. They rip sentries in half with a Medic helping them.
Any random Spy who isn't a complete moron. Needless to say, this is rare.

The FF sentry is just smarter and more intuitive to me. The only time a TF2 sentry is overpowered is when you're using the Wrangler.