11-04-2010, 08:52 PM | #21 |
Skillet
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Hey Born in Xixax! Never knew you were on the forums. I love your name and agree with your points.
Also agree with the person who said the scout need to seriously be nerfed because now the scout is way too fast and can conc way too much. It really isn't fair for a defense standing there and seeing a scount fly by and not even have a chance to shoot them. Some elite scouts just make it impossible for sgs to lock on they need to do something about scout! |
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11-04-2010, 08:56 PM | #22 |
NeoNL
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Or you could just get better at defense. It's not hard to adjust to the speed of FF (offensive playing) after you've played for a while.
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11-04-2010, 09:03 PM | #23 |
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ricey your one of the ones were talking about.
but also it really is but from what i can tell, the etlist is a major problem here on the forums. in game i find that most people are relatively nice and helpful. so from what i can tell all the etlists don't play the game anyway they just bitch about the game on the forums. there still are some etlists but how many compared to the numbers on the forums. this disrespect to new blood is driving people away (and its got to stop). when first got here. i was met with a wall of etlists, luckily I'm not so easily deterred.
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WiFi's StreamFailure is always an option. It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!) To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage! and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war! Last edited by WiFiDi; 11-04-2010 at 09:21 PM. |
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11-04-2010, 09:21 PM | #24 | |
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Front-End Developer Fortress Forever Staff
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Wait, I'm an elitist? REALLY!!?! I am part of the elite group, FUCK YES. God you are stupid.
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Maps : Haste |Scrummage |Mulch_Trench Voltage | Exchange Classic | Fortsake ricecakes: I demand SGs get a buff squeek.: buy it a gym membership 'I have an eye for design' - Kube 2014 |
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11-04-2010, 09:37 PM | #25 | |
Slayer of humans
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mostly on earth though in some alt dimensions
Class/Position: I'm an Offensive Defensive person Gametype: Fortress Forever Affiliations: I'm a merc, only thing that talks is money Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times
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There are some maps that no matter how much defense you have, if you have 1 or 2 people that are good with concs they get through. Many times since the last patch, it usually ends up with one side pretty much on defense only because thats the only way to protect the flag. Though as long as there is one person going over to the other team they just can't throw everything at that defense as they need a defense of at least 2 or 3 people. But since I'm a pub only player then you think I must suck so I'm just whining. Course the reality is, I've played this game since it first came out, and I played TFC since about 6 months after it came out. So I'm a long time player, I'm pretty decent as I am almost always near or at the top of the score board. I also don't limit myself to 1 class and while I don't do it often, I do play defense, though I prefer being offense. I'm just posting about what I regularly see. I figure as a regular player the devs could use information from a pub player. |
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11-04-2010, 09:45 PM | #26 |
NeoNL
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Actually no I dont think you suck, nor did I say ANYONE did especially any pub players. Yes I have pubbed with you before. I am one who would go out of my way to help those in need of it but oh well.
I do agree that there is major elitism problems in this community.. pointing my finger at the pickup community even though I am apart of it too. But there is nothing you can really do, that's how people are. You just gotta deal with it.
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11-04-2010, 09:48 PM | #27 | |
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Last edited by chilledsanity; 11-04-2010 at 09:53 PM. |
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11-04-2010, 09:48 PM | #28 | ||
Heartless Threadkiller
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However, if the childish shit could be put aside, it would work very well.
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11-04-2010, 09:59 PM | #29 | |
Banned
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@chilledsanity: I think that's another huge problem right now. The development team, which seems to appeal to the pickup community, shares its animosity toward the public community. Seriously, I can't count the number of times the development team has just outright trash-talked public players. "Oh, they don't know how to play Fortress Forever correctly. We're not balancing the game around pubs because some idiots don't know how to play Fortress Forever." Which is an ironic statement, because Fortress Forever doesn't come "out of the box" with an explaination for how it's supposed to be played. You have to come into the fray already equipped with the knowledge on how pickups work. But, of course, the denial-based development team blames the public community instead of their neglect for structure. I was talking to one developer recently about the reasons why the development team refused to allow someone into the beta. The rumor floating around was that this person had reimplemented a mechanic (that the community had liked) on his servers, which in turn angered the development team. I brought up the point that one of the new items in the beta worked essentially the same way. This developer tried to writhe his way out of the fact that they are one in the same with comments like "Well, with this new item, someone has to be close to the its after-effect for it to be useful", which was, of course, incorrect because the effect the item applies to those inside of its after-effect is a detriment whether or not someone is there to capitalize on it, much like the item that was reimplemented after removal. Said developer ignored this, and instead went on to blatantly attack the person in question, saying "He doesn't seem like he should belong in beta. He seems like an idiot who wouldn't contribute much to the development of the mod." Really? That's what you think about the people who give your creation power? You're cherry-picking those that already agree with your development stance? How will that result in anything good? I thought the whole purpose was to get mixed feedback in an effort to balance the game objectively? I guess not. Seriously, the development team is a delusional group of people who think they can do nothing but good, and as a result need no help. (Unless, of course, this help is not involved with a creative process, and is instead labor that improves a mechanic the development team thought up in the first place. That's the whole purpose of beta, it would seem. No matter how creative you are or how many items you purpose, at the end of the day, you're just testing and improving their contributions. They need no alternatives! Their ideas are the best! When you have the best, what can be said of the rest? It's not the best. So, fuck it. They think the public community is nothing but a bunch of idiots. This is why they refuse to make the game more transparent. This is why they don't really give a shit for the public's opinion. This is why Fortress Forever sucks. There's a big bullshit reason for the game's secrecy. "Oh, we have to make the game secretive. If we were to be transparent about it, there would be rumors galore." Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. "We have to cover these windows to block out the sun-light, because if we keep them open, the room will be pitch black!" Wonderful logic! It's like the most fundamental understandings of human behavior are alien to them. "What? Develop a game for the people playing it? That's absolutely insane." Huh. I wonder why Fortress Forever is well below the surface. Aside from things I agree cannot be tamed (competition from tf2, not having a paid development team, etc) I wonder what it could be? |
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11-04-2010, 10:26 PM | #30 |
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Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: Capture the Flag is there any other Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
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i apreciate the lvl you stooped to correct my spelling even though i know you could understand it.
also nice post bridget.
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WiFi's StreamFailure is always an option. It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!) To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage! and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war! Last edited by WiFiDi; 11-04-2010 at 10:28 PM. |
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11-04-2010, 10:34 PM | #31 | |
internet user
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11-04-2010, 10:50 PM | #32 | |
Skillet
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I agree, I have played clan style play as well, and the scout as it is now is way faster it seems than before the updates. Sg's can't stop them and demo and soldier are just left wondering what the hell just flew by and they had one shot to try and hit the thing going 1000 miles per hour. They need to slow him down or give the scout 1 conc would be good or 2 and slow him down. The amount of speed a scout can get is way out of proportion to class balance. The medic is hardly played on pickups at all because of the scouts lopsided speed. Last edited by Bomber; 11-04-2010 at 10:51 PM. |
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11-04-2010, 10:52 PM | #33 |
Banned
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Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
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Nah, it is.
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11-04-2010, 11:01 PM | #34 |
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Bridget: Wow, that's rather damning. If that's really what's been going on, then I guess elitism really IS the primary blame for FF's current state. Even with TF2, if there was a strong community focus, FF could still be thriving as more of a niche mod instead of gasping like it currently is. If this is what has been happening all along, then I guess I feel like an idiot for caring as much about the mod as I have if it's on an irreversible crash course
One thing I've wondered about for a while is the current policy on development. The current devs had made it clear that they're the ones that make the decisions about FF and they are the ones determining its direction. It's underworkings are secret and are a top-down, not bottom-up operation. Being on the beta does not influence this. Contributing as a new dev is still easily overruled, and from what you're saying, it sounds like they're careful who they chose. I can actually understand this viewpoint if they were the original creators of the mod. Speaking from experience, being a creator of something original can make you protective of it, especially if you have a clear vision of what exactly is you want to accomplish. However as I understand it, the dev team is no longer composed of its original creators, they abandoned the project a while back. The logical conclusion in that situation (to me) is to open the game up to the community and focus on what everyone wants, as the game no longer belongs to anyone, and thus the people who still care about it should determine its direction. Instead, the NEW devs are dictating terms of the game and making the decisions for us. So my question is, what "right" do the devs have for this stance, other than currently being in control? Why are their decisions more important over someone who wants to contribute and alter the game, but didn't know the right people at the right time? It feels like a textbook definition of an oligarchy. If the game had only improved over the years, I honestly wouldn't care. Instead the gameplay's gotten worse than I ever would have predicted, so I kind of view the current dev team as usurpers who came in and ruined the game, versus the original dev team, who made something I sincerely liked. You can argue that the dev team is the one putting in the work, so they've earned the right to shut others out, but that doesn't really hold up. The majority of the work was done by other people. If the mod belonged to anybody, it was them, and they're mostly gone now. I would bet money if FF completely opened up the code, some people would swoop in and mod the hell out of it to make a game that they considered better. Unless you're talking cosmetic changes, it's understandable people don't want to slave away at the mod if they feel like they're going in against an established groupthink pattern and the mod is mostly mutated into a game they don't want. By having access to it first when the dev team dissolved and shutting others out, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of having done more work. You can also argue that the devs' status as dictating the direction of the mod is necessary because the community doesn't know it wants. My memory may be failing me, but I've NEVER known the devs to make a news post or anything to that extent, reaching out to the community, asking them what they want. In general they browse forums silently and reply haphazardly to some threads. Maybe later some of these are discussed in private like it's some clandestine agenda, who knows, we certainly don't. But seriously, when have the DEVS made a news post saying something like: "hey guys, numbers are dwindling on the mod, we need to figure out how to get players back and bring in new people. We want your feedback and from anyone who might be interested, what do YOU want to see in this game?" Of course not, we know that's a joke. Every once in a while, a forum user makes a post like this and if a dev comments at all, it's to the tune of "what makes you think you know what the direction of FF is?" Again, remember this is mostly coming from people who became developers of FF AFTER the fact. Here's a question for the devs: Under what circumstances would you consider opening up the original code to FF (under the assumption that all the original coders were credited?) Dexter: Nice one-line rebuttal to multiple specific accusations with no details, no clarification, no defense, or any indication that you even know what he might be referring to. Helps restore confidence. |
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11-04-2010, 11:04 PM | #35 |
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Front-End Developer Fortress Forever Staff
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Dexter knows what he is referring to.
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11-04-2010, 11:59 PM | #36 |
internet user
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I'd do all of the above but its not like he had any proof. Besides, he thinks the dev team is composed of elite pickup players when most of us just pub for fun. so apparently, we hate ourselves
All that aside what on earth makes you think I'd go out of my way to prove something to someone who goes off talking about how dead FF is? lol " the community doesn't know it wants." I mean look around, what few people are here are busy shouting contradicting things. The few things that do overlap have probably already been addressed. It doesn't help a few key people think they are the community as a whole Last edited by Dexter; 11-05-2010 at 12:04 AM. |
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11-05-2010, 12:25 AM | #37 |
Skillet
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Tonight I tried to join a pickup and joined and have both map packs installed, but they picked a map that isn't in either of the map packs, some obscure map and got kicked from the channel because I didn't have the map to join the server, and the server wouldn't let me dl it.
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11-05-2010, 12:27 AM | #38 |
NeoNL
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Skillet you dont get it. YOU didn't put the effort into downloading an unzipping program to INSTALL the map.
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11-05-2010, 12:28 AM | #39 | |
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( 08:24:00 ) ( @ralphie-G ) link works fine ( 08:24:03 ) ( @ralphie-G ) you have a minute to join ( 08:24:12 ) ( Skillet ) i don thave rar program and dont want to install a rar program ( 08:24:22 ) ( @ralphie-G ) well you cant play ff then 08:16:39 ) ( Skillet ) can you send me the map files un rared i dont want to dl a rar program ( 08:24:13 ) ( ralphie-G ) DL winrar you retard ( 08:24:25 ) ::: ( ยค ) Kick: Skillet was kicked from #ff.pickup by ChanServ:#ff.pickup [ (ralphie-G) Bye. ] ( 08:24:28 ) ( Skillet ) i only have a few programs on my computer i dont want more |
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11-05-2010, 12:40 AM | #40 | |||
Banned
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Dexter then told me that I was being stubborn, and that it was wrong of me to conclude nothing was being worked on simply because I could not see it being worked on. He said that the development work was logged on a different SVN. Okay, that's fine, but take a screenshot. Show me evidence its being worked on. It's that simple. All I got was "Why do I need to prove anything to you?" or "You can just go into the game and see it for yourself. Just go into the menu and click x." Long story short, nothing had changed, and there was no newly included "x" menu option. He still refuses to give me evidence that it's being worked on. So? Lulz. Quote:
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