Replace jump queue with auto-jump? - Page 3

**squeek.** · 06-20-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyLotu

btw, with tutorials i mean built-in, in-game tutorials
a la warsow style

So do we.

s0undch4s3r · 06-20-2009, 02:58 AM

auto jump? how about AUTO BHOP? hahaha

hit the FORWARD and SPACE BAR key and VOILA!! you are bunny hopping like a mad man.

**squeek.** · 06-20-2009, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

auto jump? how about AUTO BHOP? hahaha

hit the FORWARD and SPACE BAR key and VOILA!! you are bunny hopping like a mad man.

Good joke.

That would be the most useless form of bunnyhopping imaginable.

So there.

FooL · 06-21-2009, 09:02 PM

i think a tutorial is all that is necessary people who complain about bhop just need to take a few minutes to try to learn it.

Bridget · 06-21-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FooL

i think a tutorial is all that is necessary people who complain about bhop just need to take a few minutes to try to learn it.

You can't just take a few minutes to learn how to bunny hop.

Iggy · 06-21-2009, 11:11 PM

I think he means that it's kinda like learning to drive a stick-shift..... takes a few minutes to learn the mechanics(read:what to do), but practice to actually get it down.

Bosley · 06-22-2009, 12:31 AM

At least driving a manual makes sense mechanically...

Iggy · 06-22-2009, 12:41 AM

Point taken. I was just on the Beta Server messing around. While I admit I don't fully understand bhopping... the whole "don't press forward to go forward" thing confuses me. I was moving forward, stopped pressing forward, and just kept the jump button pressed. I stopped moving forward and just kinda hopped in place.

**Elmo** · 06-22-2009, 01:05 PM

if you travel at some speed let go of everything except continue to press jump you will continue in the direction you were going.

Hammock · 06-22-2009, 02:53 PM

That's actually how I taught people to do the jump part of bhop in tfc. I picked a map with a long straight away and told him. "Look you'll know you have the jumping down when you can go from here to that wall with only a single press/release of the forward key then nothing but jump.

Peon · 06-22-2009, 07:41 PM

If this becomes reality I hope it's a toggleable option...I really like the jump que.

I also think that bunny hopping is overrated compared to other movement skills, such as trimping and circle strafing. Bhop doesn't help you in the air, which is where Scouts spend most of their time anyways. I really don't think newbies should be playing the Scout anyways, and bhopping with the newbie friendly classes (i.e. the slow ones) isn't as devastating.

I don't think the jump que is hard to learn at all, and it's equally not hard to figure out how experienced players are doing it and why. Newbies have PLENTY of shite to learn before even starting to worry about bhop....imho.

**squeek.** · 06-22-2009, 07:46 PM

Bunnyhop is a direct result of air control and gaining speed in the air with strafe. If you truly understand bunnyhopping and what makes it work, you also understand air control (which does help you in the air).

The point isn't that jump queue is hard to learn, it's that it's an unnecessary skill to even have to begin to learn. Jumping has never been the "meat" of bunnyhopping in FF (but it was a large portion of it in TFC), so if we make all the parts that you shouldn't have to learn actually be things you don't have to learn, then bunnyhopping as a whole becomes that much more accessible while still maintaining it's appeal/skill/etc.

And, as stated earlier, it'll be toggleable (but it is recommended to at least try playing with it enabled first).

MonoXideAtWork · 06-22-2009, 08:33 PM

Just a thought. I would play still FF if the speed of all classes were increased 150% and incremental speed gain was done away with. In a game that has so many "skill" communities, why do we feel that you need to be "skillful" to get to the other side of the map as quickly as another player can? It seems like generational discrimination to me.

With not one, but two types of offhand grenades for most classes, low clip sizes for the most devastating weapons, special abilities that might as well be "easter eggs", this game tends to drive fortress-noobs away, as opposed to embracing them and welcoming them to a world that TF2 turned it's back on.

If all players SHOULD bunnyhop, why do we make them have to learn how to do it? I would say fortress-forever is by far, the easiest game to bunnyhop in. And that's good, because with the diminished returns on incremental speed gain, if it were any more difficult, it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

Just like in basketball, the skill in movement doesn't come from the movement itself, which is pretty basic, it's in the application of the movement to the situation that is an indication of experience, decision-making, and personal skill that we love.

Suggestion: Leave bunnyhopping mechanics alone, but increase each class' run speed to the maximum skimcap for their class. If players still want to hop around, they are more than welcome to benefit from the added juking and maneuvers, but bunnyhopping would no longer be a necessity to all players, it would only be used when it would be a benefit, as opposed to all the time.

Bridget · 06-22-2009, 11:17 PM

No. Bunny hopping should stay in the game, it should remain as a speed-increasing form of movement, all because it's a trade-off. The community would disappear if bhop was removed, whether by code or modifications that make it useless for speed gain.

killu · 06-22-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlstriker

I'm all for auto-bhop while holding your jump button.

Why would this be? I would imagine it would be the other way around.

yes, make the game even easier and completely remove the need to learn and get better at movement.

Bridget · 06-22-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killu

yes, make the game even easier and completely remove the need to learn and get better at movement.

Removal of complications != Removal of skill
Difficult Gameplay != Skilled Gameplay
Easy Gameplay != Less Skilled Gameplay

**squeek.** · 06-22-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Removal of complications != Removal of skill

True, but not for air control.

killu · 06-22-2009, 11:58 PM

What is so difficult about it? It's one of those things that's pretty basic to learn ESPECIALLY IN FF but takes a bit of time to really master it. I don't think there is any problem with the way jumping works in this game now.

zE · 06-23-2009, 12:31 AM

ruining learning curve imo, do autobhop automatic ...

CHURCHMOUTH · 06-23-2009, 01:37 AM

i think i could learn how to bunnyhop in a few minutes np

View Poll Results: Keep queue jump or modify to non-stop jump?
Queue jumps by holding jump in air before you land.	10	35.71%
Jump non-stop as long as you hold down your jump key.	18	64.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

06-22-2009, 01:05 PM	#49
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	if you travel at some speed let go of everything except continue to press jump you will continue in the direction you were going. __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999)

06-22-2009, 07:41 PM	#51
Peon Altitude Junkie D&A Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Class/Position: Agressive Medic or Pyro...as long as I can fly baby! Gametype: CTF Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If this becomes reality I hope it's a toggleable option...I really like the jump que. I also think that bunny hopping is overrated compared to other movement skills, such as trimping and circle strafing. Bhop doesn't help you in the air, which is where Scouts spend most of their time anyways. I really don't think newbies should be playing the Scout anyways, and bhopping with the newbie friendly classes (i.e. the slow ones) isn't as devastating. I don't think the jump que is hard to learn at all, and it's equally not hard to figure out how experienced players are doing it and why. Newbies have PLENTY of shite to learn before even starting to worry about bhop....imho. __________________ "The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, “You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I’m just not close enough to get the job done.”" - George Carlin

06-22-2009, 07:46 PM	#52
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	Bunnyhop is a direct result of air control and gaining speed in the air with strafe. If you truly understand bunnyhopping and what makes it work, you also understand air control (which does help you in the air). The point isn't that jump queue is hard to learn, it's that it's an unnecessary skill to even have to begin to learn. Jumping has never been the "meat" of bunnyhopping in FF (but it was a large portion of it in TFC), so if we make all the parts that you shouldn't have to learn actually be things you don't have to learn, then bunnyhopping as a whole becomes that much more accessible while still maintaining it's appeal/skill/etc. And, as stated earlier, it'll be toggleable (but it is recommended to at least try playing with it enabled first). __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington Last edited by squeek.; 06-22-2009 at 07:48 PM.

06-23-2009, 01:37 AM	#60
CHURCHMOUTH crystaLcity D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Soldier D Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Goodfellas Posts Rated Helpful 7 Times	i think i could learn how to bunnyhop in a few minutes np __________________ 83745 L0LZ ff_nyx_b2 ff_schrape_b3 ff_security_b1 ff_baked_b2 ff_reloaded_b1 ff_mulch_dm_b2 ff_oppose_b1

06-20-2009, 02:58 AM	#42
s0undch4s3r The guy you love to hate. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Under your bed Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	auto jump? how about AUTO BHOP? hahaha hit the FORWARD and SPACE BAR key and VOILA!! you are bunny hopping like a mad man.

06-21-2009, 09:02 PM	#44
FooL Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	i think a tutorial is all that is necessary people who complain about bhop just need to take a few minutes to try to learn it.

06-22-2009, 12:31 AM	#47
Bosley Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: 69.12.108.79:27015 Affiliations: EastCoastTF2.com Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	At least driving a manual makes sense mechanically...

06-22-2009, 02:53 PM	#50
Hammock D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	That's actually how I taught people to do the jump part of bhop in tfc. I picked a map with a long straight away and told him. "Look you'll know you have the jumping down when you can go from here to that wall with only a single press/release of the forward key then nothing but jump.

06-22-2009, 08:33 PM	#53
MonoXideAtWork Pub Allstar! Beta Tester Join Date: Aug 2008 Class/Position: under en kvinna Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Eternal Order, Must be h4x, Mono's happy funtime. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Just a thought. I would play still FF if the speed of all classes were increased 150% and incremental speed gain was done away with. In a game that has so many "skill" communities, why do we feel that you need to be "skillful" to get to the other side of the map as quickly as another player can? It seems like generational discrimination to me. With not one, but two types of offhand grenades for most classes, low clip sizes for the most devastating weapons, special abilities that might as well be "easter eggs", this game tends to drive fortress-noobs away, as opposed to embracing them and welcoming them to a world that TF2 turned it's back on. If all players SHOULD bunnyhop, why do we make them have to learn how to do it? I would say fortress-forever is by far, the easiest game to bunnyhop in. And that's good, because with the diminished returns on incremental speed gain, if it were any more difficult, it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Just like in basketball, the skill in movement doesn't come from the movement itself, which is pretty basic, it's in the application of the movement to the situation that is an indication of experience, decision-making, and personal skill that we love. Suggestion: Leave bunnyhopping mechanics alone, but increase each class' run speed to the maximum skimcap for their class. If players still want to hop around, they are more than welcome to benefit from the added juking and maneuvers, but bunnyhopping would no longer be a necessity to all players, it would only be used when it would be a benefit, as opposed to all the time.

06-22-2009, 11:17 PM	#54
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	No. Bunny hopping should stay in the game, it should remain as a speed-increasing form of movement, all because it's a trade-off. The community would disappear if bhop was removed, whether by code or modifications that make it useless for speed gain.

06-22-2009, 11:58 PM	#58
killu Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: MA Class/Position: Medic Affiliations: Goodfellas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	What is so difficult about it? It's one of those things that's pretty basic to learn ESPECIALLY IN FF but takes a bit of time to really master it. I don't think there is any problem with the way jumping works in this game now.

06-23-2009, 12:31 AM	#59
zE Pew pew ze beams Join Date: Jan 2008 Gametype: Gathers Affiliations: pew pew Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	ruining learning curve imo, do autobhop automatic ...

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