How to fix FF PART 2

[caesium]

yeah, i'm familiar with the other gamemodes, it's just "CTF Tactics" i'm curious to know what it's like (but i'm too lazy/dubious to install warsow again and try to find server/players myself) - http://www.warsow.net/wiki/index.php...es#CTF_Tactics

[Dexter]

Originally Posted by raum

never heard of it, i wonder whats "tactics" for.. ill check servers for it

ive played insta ctf for a while tho, it was quite fun. "spamming dash/dodge and bouncing off walls like a retard" that lets u continuously bhop at extreme speeds that u cant even get close to at almost any game, is fun when u are carrying a flag and while every1 carries a railgun.

theres also a bomb mod which is basicly counter-strike with warsow movement system, that could be fun if there was a decent player-base. i mean there are ppl who plays it, but not just on public servers

ye the ctf is great but no one plays it here in US. or much of anything outside of shit in #warsow.na (dont go there they are all hecka gay and stuff)

[eomoyaff]

Originally Posted by Dexter

ye the ctf is great but no one plays it here in US. or much of anything outside of shit in #warsow.na (dont go there they are all hecka gay and stuff)

This is where I come in and say that you're completely right. FPS has a new friend, and it's console gamers. It's that same mainstream peice of shit game you HAVE to keep buying over, and over, and over again, just to keep up with friends and the playerbase. It has completely stopped focus on the actual gameplay. Just because a game is polished and makes a million a year, doesn't mean it's a good game.

Games are losing their edge as the years go by. It's those games that say "it'll be released when its' ready," are the ones you have to keep an eye on.

New Tribes anyone? :P

[Raynian]

If I believed Hi-Rez knew what they were doing with T:A, I'd say there's still hope.

Unfortunately, it's not the case.

Apparently Resistance 3 was pretty good though?

[Weasel]

Dare I say it?
Add a server-side CVAR to optionally enable/disable BHOP?
[BBCodeToAllowFlaming]

[NeonLight]

Originally Posted by Weasel

Dare I say it?
Add a server-side CVAR to optionally enable/disable BHOP?
[BBCodeToAllowFlaming]

I'm just wondering, why would you want to take away one of the main aspects to the game?

[Weasel]

Originally Posted by NeoNL

I'm just wondering, why would you want to take away one of the main aspects to the game?

It's just flat-out a game feature I have never liked - in any game.

As one of the "main aspects" of FF (as you say), has anybody ever thought that maybe that is what has been keeping people away? FF seemed to have a really good following before TF2 hit it's grove. Now ... almost nothing.

I'm interested in FF as an updated replacement for TFC (which I also still sometimes play), and as a nice alternative to TF2 (which I also play - a lot).

I love TF2, but miss TFC from time to time, but don't really want to look at the old engine graphics any more. But, being a server admin, I want to stay in the Steam platform (Source/OrangeBox engines) - where I can kick and ban unruly people by SteamID.

I still play Half-Life (1) on the old engine, which is Ok for that game. I also still sometimes play Counter-Strike (1.6) on the old engine - since in CS I find the graphics don't really matter at all to me (which is probably why CS is still more popular the CS:S).

But, the move from TFC to TF2 was huge, and there are many aspects people just don't like (grenades gone, lack of medic "infections", all the "items" and "trading" stuff, etc. - the list goes on). So, having an alternative to that, running on some Steam-based platform would be good to have. Of course, BHOP is another "feature" that TF2 doesn't have as well (short of some special server-side modifications anyway). So, FF could still be the TF2 alternative that allows for BHOP.

The few FF players left (at least those seen on here it seems) seem violently pro-BHOP. Seems like the idea of server-side CVAR option isn't even being considered seriously. If a "tag" system could be implemented, to show on the server list wether not not BHOP is enabled or disabled (kind of like TF2 shows CTF or CP or IncreasedMaxPlayers, etc), that would be very helpfull too. That would allow to players specifically looking for either "BHOP" or "NoBHOP" to find exactly what they are looking for (without having to hack that into the server display names).

Maybe if there were a few non-BHOP servers out there, people would be more inclined to play on those, and then later ramp-up to playing on BHOP servers. I liken it to people who start out playing Counter-Strike on non-Friendly-Fire servers, and then move up to playing on Friendly-Fire servers. It's just a totally different level of game-play - which not everybody can, or frankly will want to make the transition to.

I just think it would be better to have the option and maybe keep some more players, then not have any option - and let FF just die out.

Don't mean to be disrespectful here, and I am well aware that most regulars here will probably disagree with all that, but those are my thoughts. Thanks for listening anyway.

[caesium]

Hi Weasel, interesting to read your pov.

I'm interested to hear in brief (at a high level so we don't get bogged down in details!) what you like about TFC and FF gameplay, whether it's bhop specifically or movement skills in general that you dislike and (either way) what you dislike about it and whether you think there're any consequences of it that you do like.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Removing bunnyhop is an even worse idea than the two servers that have reverted back to some weird in-between version of the previous patch and the current patch. It would split the already small community even further apart.

Bunnyhopping was a part of TFC, despite some people's claims to the contrary. Valve could have removed it like they did with CS. They did not. They intentionally capped it at 170%. FF, being an evolution of TFC, keeps bunnyhopping.

[episkopos]

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose

Bunnyhopping was a part of TFC, despite some people's claims to the contrary. Valve could have removed it like they did with CS. They did not. They intentionally capped it at 170%. FF, being an evolution of TFC, keeps bunnyhopping.

From what I heard, they didn't remove bunnyhopping because it would have required major changes to the engine. The 170% cap was the lowest they could reasonably set it.

Weasel, are you aware that bunnyhopping in FF is actually a lot easier than it is in TFC? I don't deny that it makes the game less accessible, but it's easier than it was.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Originally Posted by episkopos

From what I heard, they didn't remove bunnyhopping because it would have required major changes to the engine. The 170% cap was the lowest they could reasonably set it.

Don't see how that's possible as they managed to eliminate bunnyhopping in CS 1.6. Maybe it did take a lot of engine changes but they didn't feel like expending the effort on TFC and by the time they finally did it they didn't care enough to port that change to other HL1 mods?

[episkopos]

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose

Don't see how that's possible as they managed to eliminate bunnyhopping in CS 1.6. Maybe it did take a lot of engine changes but they didn't feel like expending the effort on TFC and by the time they finally did it they didn't care enough to port that change to other HL1 mods?

v1.1.0.8
--------
[9.18.01]

Changes/Additions:
------------------
- Multicast spectator added.
- Voice communication added.
- Hardware survey in installer.
- Added server chat to logging.
- Redesigned multiplayer scoreboard.
- CapsLock key is now bindable.
- HLDM weapons now use client side prediction.

Bug Fixes:
----------
- Bunny hopping removed from HLDM, Counter-Strike, TFC, and DMC.
- Fixed banned.cfg problem with more than 1024 entries.
- Fixed screenshots overwriting each other.
- Buffer overflow exploit fixed.
- "condump", "cmdlist", and "cvarlist" only write out to the game directory.
- Fixed spy crouching bug in TFC.
- Fixed team switching grenade bug.
- Feigned spies do not show a weapon model.
- Sentry guns, Dispensers, and Detpacks cannot block doorways.
- Fixed "detstart"command
- Caltrops are being logged in TFC.
- Sentry gun and Dispensers are logged in TFC correctly.
- Switching to Spectator is now logged in TFC.
- "Tell" command is logged in TFC.
- Fixed Heavy Weapons Guy firing bug.
- Fixed medkit kill bug.
- Fixed Spy showing as a Scout in TFC.
- Fixed sounds looping in TFC when a player died.
- Fixed Quickstart crashing in the launcher.

I think bunnyhopping was "removed" from CS the same way it was "removed" from TFC: it was made harder to perform and the speed was capped at 170%. It was the best Valve could do.

[s0undch4s3r]

I wish TFC never died.....it was (and still is) the best TF game ever.

[KubeDawg]

100% agree. I'm pretty sure I think at least once a week about Valve going back and making an updated tfc like a TF3 or TF2 classic.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Originally Posted by episkopos

I think bunnyhopping was "removed" from CS the same way it was "removed" from TFC: it was made harder to perform and the speed was capped at 170%. It was the best Valve could do.

Well, it's obviously possible to bunnyhop in TFC, and quite easy once you get used to it. In CS, your movement basically locks for a split second and stops you from bunnyhopping. What they did in TFC is different than what they did in CS.

[Dexter]

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose

Well, it's obviously possible to bunnyhop in TFC, and quite easy once you get used to it. In CS, your movement basically locks for a split second and stops you from bunnyhopping. What they did in TFC is different than what they did in CS.

yes but its still very possible to bunny very fast in cs 1.6. you have to do very tight circle strafes instead, watc some cs movement videos. its crazy how fast you can get going. but ya they kludged a normal jump while +fwding hard

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Originally Posted by Dexter

yes but its still very possible to bunny very fast in cs 1.6. you have to do very tight circle strafes instead, watc some cs movement videos. its crazy how fast you can get going. but ya they kludged a normal jump while +fwding hard

Was not aware of that.

[JackBauer]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

100% agree. I'm pretty sure I think at least once a week about Valve going back and making an updated tfc like a TF3 or TF2 classic.

Same here. A TF2 Classic would be a dream come true. Imagine it's player base.

Unfortunately it will never happen.

[FDA_Approved]

In my opinion giving a cvar for bhop is just a horrendous idea. Anything that has the possibility of splitting your small community into even smaller seperate servers should be a giant red flag.

Bhop in this game is not even very hard. I've never played tfc, only a little quake, and I can bhop all over the place. And it's just so rewarding and fun to do I honestly can see how anyone who puts in 5 minutes effort wouldn't like it. But that's just my opinion.

I'd also like to say I get where ragdoll is coming from. I do not like playing against pyros in FF. I ABSOLUTELY HATE playing against pyros in tf2. But that's another bucket of worms.

Now I'm fairly decent at this game, not so much objectives like capping, but I can defend and rack up some kills like a champ. But when I fight against a pyro it's just so annoying. Maybe it's because I haven't quite mastered cooking my grenades while I'm fighting and coordinating all my weapons. But I always feel like I come out worse after a fight with a pyro. And pyro weapons by nature are just very rage inducing. After burn is just such a nagging and undeserverd bonus in my eyes. Idk it's kind of hard to explain, but it's just one of those things that, when it happens, I'm just instantly sour about it. Especially in a small player setting where there's less people to deal with the pyro. And it just makes me want to play less sometimes.

[Weasel]

Looking into setting-up a Final Combat server instead. Looks pretty stupid, not sure if menus are Chinese only, but might be ... eh, "interesting" to experiment with.