Community "rules"

[o_trox]

*trOx* headshot incoming offence with sniper rifle
offence: lame, play a real class
me: wah..?
offence: stop ruining the game noob
me: uh... k..?

hi, im trOx, long time listener first time caller
i am a pretty old school TFC'er, and i have seen what the community turned tfc into, and it is pretty much what drove me away from the game.
i'm talking about the unwritten, etiquette "rules" of the game. for example: it is the community code to NEVER use pyro or sniper during a serious CTF game.
another example: piping spawns is not acceptable in any way shape or form, neither is offence harming other offence or hwguys playing offence.

breaking these rules will result in being shunned from the community and all serious games until you change your ways.

sorry if there is another thread on this, but i am concerned about these rules being incorporated into FF, as i'm a firm believer that whatever is in the game should be able to be used without people shouting "LAME", and "NOOB" ten times over.

correct me if i'm wrong, but it is my assumption that the community i was involved with long ago (australian tfc) will bring these rules into FF without hesitation. so my question is, are you, as a community member, willing to play FF without "rules" invented by a few people who simply didn't want to face something which they found annoying?

i'm prepared for people to get on my back about this, especially about the offence harming offence and spamming/piping spawns topics, but i can honestly see no good reason why ANYTHING which can be done in the game, should not be allowed to be done in clan matches or any other format. guide me please

[o_sh4x]

Playing lame is fun once in a while, but when you want competitive play, those community rules are awesome.

It's a personal preference anyways. That's why you're always gonna have the option of joining pubs with lame play or pubs with competitive play.

I always prefered playing with those community rules. For me, it's just more fun that way. I guess I like competition alot.

I think you need to change your point of view on this. When you say: "so my question is, are you, as a community member, willing to play FF without "rules" invented by a few people who simply didn't want to face something which they found annoying?", you miss the point of all this.

It's not simply a few people who didn't want to face something which they found annoying. It's a new type of gameplay which is meant for competition at high level. And there are alot more than just a few people who like that gameplay better than normal pubbing.

That no hwg offense thing isnt really a golden rule tho. Like on well, you can send a hwg o water, it's just a good strat sometimes.

I think the important thing to understand is that those community rules are meant for competitive play only. If you go pyro or sniper, most of the time you're gonna be less effective than say a scout or a medic and that's why it's not welcome in competitive gameplay.

And about O vs O shooting, well, it's pretty easy to understand that if the offenses kill themselves, there's not gonna be much flag capping and the defense is gonna fall asleep so yeah....

[o_trox]

oh god... i didnt get through to you at all did i? it isnt a matter of playing competetively and playing "lame" at all.
my point is playing what you call lame, shouldnt be labled as lame at all, it should be acceptable play in all environments. why should what *you* call playing lame be banished from all competetive play? what's can be done in the game should be without being labled as lame...

[o_darknight]

The dev team have no want to force rules onto people. Whether such etiquette rules will exist on a server is entirely up to the server admin. And yes I like to play these rules because it gives me a greater feeling than just spamming 2fort bridge with nades.

The pros and cons have been discussed many a time over in previous threads, a search will probably find 'em.

Basically the etiquette rules give the game some structure. If there were no such rules, when an off member leaves his base - he will almost certainly get hit low by enemy offence. If he kills this other offence player that is shooting him, not only is the enemy players run on the flag ruined, but due to the fact his is left on so low HP, his run is also ruined. If two teams just spam the bridge not only is it really dull but it makes getting into the base and completing the map objective (getting the flag) nearly impossible and totally impossible vs. a decent defence.

Piping spawns should not need to be an etiquette rule but merely a thing of common decency. Spamming spawns is fun for no-one but yourself.

but i am concerned about these rules being incorporated into FF, as i'm a firm believer that whatever is in the game should be able to be used without people shouting "LAME", and "NOOB" ten times over.

This has nothing to do with etiquette rules and such a statement is lunacy. This is the internet, 95% of people are morons and whine every time they die. As well as the fact that most clan-style games, the sniper is reasonably useless anyway.

One thing that is silly though is when people complain about offy HWGuys. Their slow speeds and inability to make over, err... around 30/40 or so runs per round cancels out the amount of damage they can do, and armour they have.

If you don't like the clan rules there will still be plenty of normal public servers to play on. Whilst it's not ideal to split up the community, hopefully people will, instead of moaning, play both types of game styles and like them for what they both have to offer... Aint gonna happen, though.

//edit

breaking these rules will result in being shunned from the community and all serious games until you change your ways.

And so it should. Unless it's your server you should abide by the rules the server owner wishes you to play by. If you do not like it them then play elsewhere; you have much more choice than those wanting to play clan-style. It's a bit like going on to a jump map and being suprised when the people playing on there are angry if you purposfully attempt to knock them off the platforms.

[o_ekse]

when i started with q3f i really liked these rules. they help to make the game more clear, you exactly know whats going on.

but lately, i start questioning them. im thinking how cool it would be to play the game however you and your clan would like it to. yard damage, chasing, fulldef and so on

but i guess thats mostly because i got bored a bit about etf

[o_sh4x]

Originally Posted by trOx

oh god... i didnt get through to you at all did i? it isnt a matter of playing competetively and playing "lame" at all.
my point is playing what you call lame, shouldnt be labled as lame at all, it should be acceptable play in all environments. why should what *you* call playing lame be banished from all competetive play? what's can be done in the game should be without being labled as lame...

dude I used the word lame because you first used it no big deal.

Don't label it lame who fucking cares. The point is not about the actual word lame jesus fuckin christ. It's about the type of play.

If the word lame fucking blows your eyes and you can't see the real concern here you need to get laid. Those rules = more structured play. Some like it better, some don't. That's all. Now you can call structured gameplay twit ass boob newb or whatever word you like it doesn't matter.

[o_ekim]

Originally Posted by trox

it is the community code to NEVER use pyro or sniper during a serious CTF game.

Because pyro and sniper are virtually useless and serve only to annoy*. If you're playing a serious game then pissing about as a worthless class is only annoying the enemy and making your team play down a man*.

Originally Posted by trox

piping spawns is not acceptable in any way shape or form

Because it takes no skill and is incredibly annoying.

Originally Posted by trox

neither is offence harming other offence

Gentleman's agreement so the whole game doesn't degenrate into a midmap brawl.

Originally Posted by trox

hwguys playing offence.

Same as pyros/snipers above.

Originally Posted by trox

breaking these rules will result in being shunned from the community and all serious games until you change your ways.

And what does that tell you?

Originally Posted by trox

as i'm a firm believer that whatever is in the game should be able to be used without people shouting "LAME", and "NOOB" ten times over.

Try the mute facility.

Originally Posted by trox

but i can honestly see no good reason why ANYTHING which can be done in the game, should not be allowed to be done in clan matches or any other format.

Nail bugs? 8 hwguy defences after going 1 cap up?

Basically it boils down to :

Public server operators can run them how they like. If people are whinging you can ignore them, if you're actually breaking the rules then it's your problem.

Clan matches? You're free to be a dick for your own amusement but don't expect many people to want you to be in their clan or many clans to want to play against you.

*: In TFC CTF.

Originally Posted by ekse

but lately, i start questioning them. im thinking how cool it would be to play the game however you and your clan would like it to. yard damage, chasing, fulldef and so on

Hmm yes I can really see the game being a lot more fun if everyone went fulldef to hold thier lead every match

[o_3vil9rin]

I played pub TFC for more than 2 years before I ever played in any sort of league. A server called Royston Vasey was my home, and there were no rules regarding lame play. The only limits set were on classes, and these ensured a balance of excellent proportions.
Getting an sg set up outside an enemy respawn was always a fun challenge, and I remember returning flags from inside enemy bases this way :E

I saw no reason as to why there should be rules regarding etiquette until I actually began to participate in clan play properly, and it became clear that certain guidelines were highly desirable. These are only ever guidelines, and even today are regularly broken by clans with a certain rivalry or animosity to one another. Added to this is the AvD style of TFC(one of my favourites), whereby the only guidelines come in the form of class limitation, and as it's a team game these deserve to be in place.

I imagine FF will cater admirably for all styles of play, and it will be down to server operators to run servers well.

[o_trox]

Originally Posted by Darknight

The dev team have no want to force rules onto people. Whether such etiquette rules will exist on a server is entirely up to the server admin. And yes I like to play these rules because it gives me a greater feeling than just spamming 2fort bridge with nades.

The pros and cons have been discussed many a time over in previous threads, a search will probably find 'em.

Basically the etiquette rules give the game some structure. If there were no such rules, when an off member leaves his base - he will almost certainly get hit low by enemy offence. If he kills this other offence player that is shooting him, not only is the enemy players run on the flag ruined, but due to the fact his is left on so low HP, his run is also ruined. If two teams just spam the bridge not only is it really dull but it makes getting into the base and completing the map objective (getting the flag) nearly impossible and totally impossible vs. a decent defence.

Piping spawns should not need to be an etiquette rule but merely a thing of common decency. Spamming spawns is fun for no-one but yourself.



This has nothing to do with etiquette rules and such a statement is lunacy. This is the internet, 95% of people are morons and whine every time they die. As well as the fact that most clan-style games, the sniper is reasonably useless anyway.

One thing that is silly though is when people complain about offy HWGuys. Their slow speeds and inability to make over, err... around 30/40 or so runs per round cancels out the amount of damage they can do, and armour they have.

If you don't like the clan rules there will still be plenty of normal public servers to play on. Whilst it's not ideal to split up the community, hopefully people will, instead of moaning, play both types of game styles and like them for what they both have to offer... Aint gonna happen, though.

//edit



And so it should. Unless it's your server you should abide by the rules the server owner wishes you to play by. If you do not like it them then play elsewhere; you have much more choice than those wanting to play clan-style. It's a bit like going on to a jump map and being suprised when the people playing on there are angry if you purposfully attempt to knock them off the platforms.

no offender in the right mind would swerve away from their cause to kill an enemy offence, and if they do, then it helps your team more than theirs. i have a problem with people enforcing rules onto others saying that if you want to play "lame" go to a pub. if you dont get satisfaction from doing something that IS effective, whether you wanna admit it or not, then dont do it. if it wasnt effective, people wouldnt whine so much about it. why would they?

[o_trox]

this isnt a bitch thread, i just wanna know if people would incorporate these unwritten rules into ff

[o_bokko]

for example: it is the community code to NEVER use pyro or sniper during a serious CTF game.
another example: piping spawns is not acceptable in any way shape or form, neither is offence harming other offence or hwguys playing offence.

This is not really true, on a public clan server yes; but that's because you are breaking the server rules.

If you went sniper or pyro in a clan game I doubt anyone would care, unless you are actually being effective they will just be relieved that you're not even trying. Same thing for offy HW, but it's not really possible with the current cr_hwguy limit.

Offence shooting offence, this happens in about every match I play. People who get blocked generally potshot, and offense kill other offense carrying your flag. Anything more than that will in most cases ruin the game.

Say one team started midmapping the enemy o, people would either start shooting back or start whining. Both options will result in players leaving the server, this is why this rarely happens.

Piping spawns is only frowned upon if it's uncalled for, usually when this happens it's because a defender is whoring the resupp (Eg. monkey T sol). This is not considered lame by most people, it's a valid tactic.

If someone is piping the spawn just for the sake of it, eg. camping outside a resupp whole map just racking up kills people will consider it lame.

The bottom line is that most of these 'rules' will carry over onto FF by nature. It's simply how people prefer to play the game.

Saying that, there are also people who like to play in a way that the majority considers 'lame'. What usually happens is that clans will start to avoid playing these clans because it's no fun.

[o_dammage]

That's the same as appealing at Basketball to ditch the 30-3-7 (iirc those were 7 secs) seconds rules, to allow fouling, to hold the ball with both hands more than one time and to do more than 2 steps with the ball in hands etc.
You still go out and play streetball without a basked and no rules on.

The point is that the rules for nearly every competitive game have been developed by players during the competition to allow the players to actually follow the objective.

In the shooters you cannot disballance anyone by touching him as the ability to fight in TF is limited only to the amount of hitpoints which you can lose by enemy attacks, friendly attacks or if you find yourself being your own enemy or find out that Newton was right.

The difference is that in classic CTF there are two tokens to be carried while in conventional sport arts there is only one (usually a ball, heh? ) So that the offence squads in classic CTF have no point in fighting for anything. You can compare it to fouling as you weaken enemy players (or own team) without any purpose/you disadvantage them in getting the objective or holding it.

Especially yard deathmatch as the yard is usually in the middle of the map so the run to the objective is pointless as you are too weak while the run back to respawn takes too much time and when you return you will be ydmed again.

That's actually only for classic CTF - in one flag CTF such thing is no more possible as it works in pretty same way as basketball/football and derivates work. There not allowing OvO would make it unplayable.

Just imagine you would play football with a red and blue ball and boxing between attackers was allowed. It is 1:1 the same as what I have written above.

[o_darknight]

no offender in the right mind would swerve away from their cause to kill an enemy offence, and if they do, then it helps your team more than theirs.

It helps no team, it just results in a spammy, messy, boring and pointless mid-map DM. Which is why the etiquette rules are there - to stop this from happening.

i have a problem with people enforcing rules onto others saying that if you want to play "lame" go to a pub.

That is completely your problem. It's up to the server admins/owner to decide how they want the server to be run. Its there server and they have every right to put whatever rule they want (no matter how absurd) and if you do not abide by it then you deserve to be slayed/kicked/banned/whatever.

if you dont get satisfaction from doing something that IS effective, whether you wanna admit it or not, then dont do it. if it wasnt effective, people wouldnt whine so much about it. why would they?

What exactly are you talking about here? Potshotting? Sniping? O v O? Or just a general comment.

[o_trox]

ekim you are an idiot, do you think i would use an effective strategy to piss people off and be a dick? why would i do that? i agree bugs should not be exploited, but 8 hwguy d after 1 cap is perfectly viable, you just dont like it because it is hard to overcome, admit it.
for others, as i said before, i am not talking about complete ovo brawls, since no one would do that, and if they do, it wont help the team at all.
saying that a strategy that works is annoying therefore it shouldnt be allowed is just the same as me saying that i dont find hwguys particularly fun to play against, so lets just ban them altogether. its just illogical and stupid.

[o_trox]

Originally Posted by Darknight

It helps no team, it just results in a spammy, messy, boring and pointless mid-map DM. Which is why the etiquette rules are there - to stop this from happening.



That is completely your problem. It's up to the server admins/owner to decide how they want the server to be run. Its there server and they have every right to put whatever rule they want (no matter how absurd) and if you do not abide by it then you deserve to be slayed/kicked/banned/whatever.



What exactly are you talking about here? Potshotting? Sniping? O v O? Or just a general comment.

im not talking about being kicked off casual servers at all, im talking about clan matches, which both clans agree to play. in those situations, server admins do not decide their server rules, it is between the clans and if you do play "lame" you get flamed to hell for no apparent reason

[o_darknight]

ekim you are an idiot, do you think i would use an effective strategy to piss people off and be a dick? why would i do that?

Err...

but 8 hwguy d after 1 cap is perfectly viable, you just dont like it because it is hard to overcome, admit it.

That very much sounds like using an effective strategy just to piss people off. Full def is frowned upon (banned?) because it makes playing the game completely pointless. You may aswell play 'first team to capture the flag wins' for all it's worth.

In reply to above. Then maybe if you stick to the widely agreed clan-match etiquette rules you wouldnt get it, what's the point in playing a clan match if you dont? And if you are sticking to the rules... What's the problem? Other than a couple of whiney players (a common occurance in all games).

[o_bokko]

exploited, but 8 hwguy d after 1 cap is perfectly viable, you just dont like it because it is hard to overcome, admit it.

The vast majority will disagree with you here, and there's no need for the personal insults.
8 hwguy defense is virtually impossible to cap on, effectively rendering a game of CTF into 30 minutes of boredom. If a clan does this no-one will ever play them again, sucks to be you if you don't like it.

[o_trox]

well i can see that FF is going to be no different from TFC, offence will be limited to medics scouts and MAYBE a soldier, and d will be same old same old, and doing anything out of the usual will be frowned upon. i didnt want this to turn into a flame thread, but since it has, and people obviously refuse to see my point entirely, i'll just give up. have fun

[o_mescalito]

^that's my boy

[o_trox]

Originally Posted by bokko

The vast majority will disagree with you here, and there's no need for the personal insults.
8 hwguy defense is virtually impossible to cap on, effectively rendering a game of CTF into 30 minutes of boredom. If a clan does this no-one will ever play them again, sucks to be you if you don't like it.

and just for the record, i RESPONDED to personal insults with the same thing, when i probably shouldnt have sunk that low