Double Shutdown CTF Map: flagtrap

[o_d3pth charge]

I have been working on a map for about a month now, and figured it was time to post something about it before the name is taken. Many of you have probably heard me spamming moronic questions in #fortressforever about Hammer, and it was most likely for this map. This is my first map ever, for any game (other than Command and Conquer: Red Alert), and so far it is coming along very nicely. I spent a lot of time considering gameplay before designing it, and feel that I have eliminated most, if not all, of the problems with contemporary CTF maps through my innovative design of the map layout.

What is Double Shutdown you ask? Well, I don't recall any other maps I've played as having it, so hopefully it is a new style that I have created! Basically the bases will have two switches: one for offense and one for defense. This all came due to my desire to combine the best aspects of Shutdown2, Schtop, and Openfire, while maintaining my own complete originality.

The flagroom consists of a small area accessable through two long corridors, as well as one tunnel that runs beneath the flag room, connected by a ladder. Normally, the corridors are inaccessable due to locked barriers blocking both teams from entering them. The tunnel is the only way to get the flag, unless the offense hits the offensive switch. When the switch is hit, the barriers open, allowing the offense much easier (and quicker) access to the flag room, via the corridors. However, at this point, the tunnel's ladder access is in turn blocked off, rendering the corridors the only means of access.

The defense also has a switch that can only be activated once the offensive switch has been hit. This switch does two things; it closes the front entrance and lasers activate where the barriers once were. These lasers are lethal to both teams, so if the flag carrier is still in the flagroom or corridors when the defense hits the switch, he is effectively trapped in there and must toss the flag out to a teammate on the other side of the laser. If the defense manages to kill the flag carrier before he can get the flag out of the corridors, then the offense is back to square one and must wait for the switches to be reset, as there is no way to get back into the corridor until the lasers turn off (which are timed to deactivate after 31 seconds, while the doors close after 30 seconds).

In addition to the front door entrance (which is closed during the defensive shutdown), there is a water entrance and a detonatable entrance. Both entrances will meet under water near the mid-map area. As for the midmap, I am designing it to discourage offense-vs.-offense, by creating a slope on either side of the midmap that ends in a high cliff, so that without a conc, one must use one side of the midmap only for getting to the enemy base or vice-versa.

Each base will have two sniper nests which are being designed to provide a real use for defenses as opposed to providing simple sniper-vs.-sniper wars. I am still in the planning stages in regards to how the sniper decks will also integrate into the bases' innards, but for now I have the map layed out so that neither bases' sniper decks can see the other's decks at all. Snipers will be free instead to focus entirely on eliminating offensive units, as they were designed.

There will be two 2fort-style respawn rooms in each base, on opposite sides of the base, and the map will be medium-sized, perfect for 5-vs.-5 up to 7-vs.7 league play.

Like Shutdown2 and Openfire, there will be the ability to activate lasers, but the roles will be reversed. Instead of the offense attempting to deactivate lasers that are usually active, the defense will be scrambling to activate lasers to trap the offense in a relatively cramped area. Like Schtop, the offense will have a switch that opens the doors to the flagroom, but unlike Schtop, the defense will not be able to get into the barricaded area except for the 30 seconds that the doors are open for the offense.

In my opinion, this was a large flaw in Schtop, because the ability for the defense to set up in the flagroom made the combination of timed access and getting by the defense that has the luxury of not being attacked whilst setting up very difficult for anyone but the most expert players. This is not to say that I am trying to make my map a no-challenge cap-a-thon, in fact it will be quite the contrary, but I think it will demand more from the defense at the same time to be effective. In Schtop, two engineers and a demoman in the flagroom made it just about impossible to cap, except by sheer luck or horrendously poor choices by the defense.

I am VERY open to suggestions, so please leave your thoughts on my design. I will post screenshots very soon, but they will be to show the layout only, not to showcase the map, as the texturing is nowhere near completion, and I haven't even begun the lighting.

Note: Please check out my map on Snarkpit for more frequent, journalistic updates. I will use this thread solely for collecting comments and posting media updates.

[o_eat]

Yeh Im kinda feelin this but Im also a little unsure. I think it all depends on where the buttons are. If it becomes too much of a chore to get the defenders switch then the whole thing would be superfluous, so the position of the switch is very important. For example schtop, if you employed this system I'd have the def switch down the ramps near the water entrance so that defender has to choose if he can get it.

I think defenders should always be allowed to set up their defence on the flag, otherwise its a bit inconsistent. Say the offence open the FR, and then fail to get the flag, but the defence get an engineer into the FR. He can no set up base and live there the whole time by building a dispenser. I think the flaw in schtop is not that defenders can set up, its that the layout of the FR makes it too hard to get the flag moving.

[o_kam]

the flaw in schtop is that it's not played enough LOL
funnest def map ever imo

[o_d3pth charge]

Originally Posted by eat

Yeh Im kinda feelin this but Im also a little unsure. I think it all depends on where the buttons are. If it becomes too much of a chore to get the defenders switch then the whole thing would be superfluous, so the position of the switch is very important. For example schtop, if you employed this system I'd have the def switch down the ramps near the water entrance so that defender has to choose if he can get it.

I think defenders should always be allowed to set up their defence on the flag, otherwise its a bit inconsistent. Say the offence open the FR, and then fail to get the flag, but the defence get an engineer into the FR. He can no set up base and live there the whole time by building a dispenser. I think the flaw in schtop is not that defenders can set up, its that the layout of the FR makes it too hard to get the flag moving.

I have a perfect location for the defender's switch that is near enough to the flag room that it isn't much of a chore to get to, yet is out of the way enough that in a few rare cases one might not want to waste time activating it.

As for the defenders getting into the flag room, this really wont be a problem. First of all, if the defenders activate the switch, then they wont be able to get into the flagroom either, as the laser is going to be universally fatal. If the laser isn't activated, then one engineer in the flagroom is hardly something to worry about, and is to be expected. The defense CAN get into the flagroom if neither switch is activated via the alternate tunnel entrace that is open during this time. However, I hardly see how this will be some sort of insurmountable advantage, as I have designed the flagroom in a manner that doesnt really make camping it on defense that advantageous at all. The best areas to set up defense will be in the large rooms where most of the action is meant to take place.

I suppose all the "if"s will be answered during the playtesting anyway, but keep the criticisms coming.

Also, eat I am not quite following what you mean by if it's too much of a chore it will be superflous... but then you say in schtop you would put it in a place that WOULD make it a chore. perhaps you meant if it ISNT enough of a chore to get to the def switch then it will be superflous... can you explain that for me?

[o_eat]

I mean if its too hard for the defence to get their switch then you basically have a shutdown map.

[o_afty]

if there is only one entrance into the flagroom when the secu is "up" whats to stop a decent hw guy sitting there maybe with an sg behind him for back up and ganking everything that tries to come in that way (ala well water route) and then just sitting 1 defender at the switch for when the offy hits thier button to immediatly hit the def button?

effectivly you'd have 6 offy then :/

[o_kaze]

nice creativity, but I think the there will be defensive strats to exploit what you are putting into this map. maybe you could make this "defense" button that is used to trap the flag a "once per match" type thing. Sort of a saving grace if the defense can time it right. I am not a very creative person, but since you have been working on this for a while, I bet you could think of a way to limit the defense's power in your map to make it a bit more balanced.

[o_d3pth charge]

Originally Posted by Afty

if there is only one entrance into the flagroom when the secu is "up" whats to stop a decent hw guy sitting there maybe with an sg behind him for back up and ganking everything that tries to come in that way (ala well water route) and then just sitting 1 defender at the switch for when the offy hits thier button to immediatly hit the def button?

effectivly you'd have 6 offy then :/

I understand where you are coming from, but I have made sure that the defensive switch is in a room that is not normally an effective defensive location. Therefore, if the defense wants to waste an entire person to camp the switch then so be it, but it's not necessarily an advantage. In a 5 vs 5 match, even up to a 7 vs 7 match, every person counts on defense, so wasting that potential defender to pointlessly camp the switch will hardly work in a team's favor.

As for the single tunnel entrance when the security is up... there is nothing stopping an HW from doing that, but why does everyone seem to think that one hw camping suddenly equals an unstoppable force? First of all, by camping in the tunnel he is effectively eliminating himself from defending the entire rest of the base, and considering that the offensive switch is close enough to the flagroom that the offense will be able to get from the switch to the flagroom before the hw could get anywhere near the flagroom, it wouldn't be that great of a camp spot at all. Secondly, if a team decided to post someone there, then the offense would simply have to focus on the main switch-accessed entrances, or figure out a way to get past the hw. That's what concs and shotguns/grenades are for :S. There are plenty of maps in TFC where a HW *could* camp if he wanted to.. yet I don't see how that is any different than my map idea? The tunnel is not going to be some 36-unit wide corridor, it's going to be wide enough to do conc manuevers and the hw will actually have to aim. Besides, I believe the devs are adding a more effective conc effect to ff anyway. Plus, the reason its so hard to get by in the water way is because it's in water, which means you can't conc, you are forced to move slowly, and the fog effect makes it hard to see. Add to that the fact that after a few seconds you start drowning, and that makes for quite a larger challenge than in my map.

Originally Posted by kaze

nice creativity, but I think the there will be defensive strats to exploit what you are putting into this map. maybe you could make this "defense" button that is used to trap the flag a "once per match" type thing. Sort of a saving grace if the defense can time it right. I am not a very creative person, but since you have been working on this for a while, I bet you could think of a way to limit the defense's power in your map to make it a bit more balanced.

Making it once per match would be pointless, the whole point is the defense has a switch just like the offense does, and can use it just as often. Please expand on this "defensive exploit strat" that you are speaking of. It's easy to just say "there will be one" but I don't see how there could. Please explain a possible scenario...

[o_d3pth charge]

Ah, now I see what you mean Afty. I can solve that problem by making a forced delay of at least 7-8 seconds from the time the offensive switch is hit before the defensive switch can be activated, or something along those lines.

[o_kam]

voltage has a "defence switch"...

[o_d3pth charge]

Does it have an offensive switch as well?

[o_kam]

Offence can set it off too.

I guess having a look at it is the best way to avoid explaining it!
http://www.ozfortress.com/maps.php?map=voltage_l

[o_d3pth charge]

Well, that's still totally different than my idea. Cool, but different.

[o_nezumi]

Ok, I just got internets back after a semi-lengthy downtime, and it's now time to start bumping old posts!

Wow, cool. I like the idea of the multiple buttons. Bravo.

[o_d3pth charge]

Hey guys,

I am really interested in releasing some initial shots of this map, but I have this light_env problem that is totally screwing it up. I don't want to release half-assed shots; I want them to look as good as possible. Basically, the problem I am having is that one edge of the light_env reflection on the floor ends abruptly (in a clean-cut line) instead of the light gently dissipating like the other edges (and like it is supposed to). I've noticed that two of the floor brushes (convieniently right where the stop is) do not render the light_env at all, I've tried tweaking the light_env's angle, but the light still doesn't reflect on those brushes. I tried deleting those brushes and remaking them, but the problem is still present.

I cannot release any shots until I fix this problem, and it is also causing me to lose a lot of motivation, which is not a good thing. I've searched the internet/IRC high and low for an answer and have not found one. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. If anyone really good at mapping (IE: Ginger Lord, the dev team, Imbrifier) would like to look at the .vmf file to see the problem (if that would help), then let me know and I can supply you with it, under the obvious assumption that you wouldn't take any of my work. (Not that you would probably want to, anyway! :P)

[o_luminous]

a guess here, but could it be a lightmap problem?

[o_d3pth charge]

Like what, exactly?

[o_sh4x]

I'll take a look at it if you want.

[o_d3pth charge]

Thanks, I figured it out already. I had a brush split right where the light began dissipating, apparently you can't do that. :P

[o_own3r]

Originally Posted by xnarf

Thanks, I figured it out already. I had a brush split right where the light began dissipating, apparently you can't do that. :P

Screenshots?