Constructive Criticism

o_kamikazi989 · 11-16-2005, 07:43 AM

Apparently my last post was a little too harsh and people took it too far by starting arguements and resulted in getting my thread locked. I think it's "retarded" because I expected a mod much like the old TFC. In my view, it is retarded. No, I have other things to do than invest hours into making new maps for a game that isn't worth it when it should be like that in the first place. And mods, people you see approve of the game because those are the ones that stick around here and like it (duh). I'll play it, but it's definitly not like I expected. Oh and also, I provided backup of why I thought it was "retarded". In case you completely ignored it when you were reading through the posts.... I quote myself

"but it's not going to have the old TFC feel" as in it is the same concept, but different game.

Also,

"I was hoping for added realism not a complete re-haul of the game with slightly similiar maps. It's just... that one "sweet" spot where I loved to put my SG or hide as a sniper or put pipe bombs down as a demo man is GONE and I won't be able to enjoy it with this new added realism"

THAT'S why I don't like the change of maps. If you can't understand that, then why are argueing?

o_kamikazi989 · 11-16-2005, 08:03 AM

By the way, I apologize saying you guys are screwing up the maps, because you aren't. Your making it how you want to make it, it's just not what I expected and wanted. But, I also expected others to agree with me at the time. This is all based strictly on my opinion, but I think my opinion would count for something considering I've been playing since 98, been in clans and leagues... and one of the few that STILL play.

o_don chico · 11-16-2005, 08:06 AM

Then why bother to even play this mod?

If you want a game like TFC, your best bet is to just keep playing TFC. There will never be another game like it. It seems like to me, you are expecting TFC, but with a graphical upgrade. That is completely pointless. TFC is an awesome game, but it does have flaws. The people developing FF seek to fix those flaws, as well as expand over TFC and create a game to attract other new players not familiar with the TFC you are familiar with. If they were to just create a direct port of TFC, chances are the only people playing this game will be current or maybe even old TFC players. And that is only if they feel it is worth crossing over. Why pay for a new game(HL2) to play a game they already own(TFC for HL1)? I love TFC and I don't doubt that I will not feel weird playing FF expecting to play something exactly like TFC. But I'm sure that FF will grow on me and I will soon get used to it and like it, shit maybe even more than TFC, who knows.

My point is you can't expect this to be a pretty version of TFC. There has to be new ideas implemented into this mod in order for new people to come along and play. Sure the maps look different, but who knows, maybe once you get into it you won't even notice the difference. Just give it a chance and don't be so hasty to jump to conclusions. THE END.

o_fresh · 11-16-2005, 08:13 AM

im not going to burst into flames on this one, however you are extremely narrow sighted, and extraordinary ignorant. It would be nice on this thread for the community to actually give valid reasons to counter his argument and not spout random angry comments...

For a start there is no need making a complete port with added graphics...why would people want to play the same game with ab it more lag? The game is true to TFC made by people who share your love for the game.

as for your "sweet spots" it is simply that you fear change. There will be many many more sweet spots in the new versions of the maps, there will be NEW places to pipe and NEW places to put an SG, ffs its half the fun.

I must admit that when i first came on the forums, like you i was a little conservative. It took a few choice threads particularly with threads form the likes of Mulch / eat / Defrag to really open my eyes to what the game can be.

Your view on this is completely selfish and if you took the time to open your mind then you would realise that this will feel like the game you love, more so than anything valve might do for TF2. They have already said the TF2 will be completely rebuilt with completely new ideas...

You need to see the big picture.

- FF will be new grounds, however set in the same world you already know and love.

- It will feel slightly different, but that's probably for the better, we can learn from all the mistakes that were made in TFC.

- Yeah the maps will be slightly different but that's change baby. If you embrace it, it will be new and exciting and most likely more fun.

- FF is being made by our peers, players like yourself who have the same love for the game, everyone shares a slightly different vision on the game granted, however the least you can do, for a team that give up so much free time is have a little faith.

- Nothing ventured nothing gained. if you decide you do hate FF when it comes out, then all you do is go back to TFC? what have you lost?

o_donny · 11-16-2005, 08:36 AM

What's point of playing another 5 years with same looking maps that have no detail and models that have lots of polygons? I think new era should bring something else than a new engine. Just when we had though all cool ways and "secrets" of the maps they bring us new versions of the map with new "secrets" you remember which turn to take but your lovely secret conc camp spot may not be there.

And what's wrong with that. I think you are, what you say the maps are :P
You can always open hammer and make your old versions of the maps.

No-body is against if you do.

o_salty milkshake · 11-16-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikazi989

I think it's "retarded" because I expected a mod much like the old TFC. In my view, it is retarded.

He's hit the nail on the head there, the dev team are just a bunch of window lickers with severe learning difficulties....

You need to expand your vocabulary a bit and learn to form a coherent argument

If this thread gets locked also, since it really serves no purpose, can you try and not start another one?

o_jinx · 11-16-2005, 11:20 AM

kamikazi, there will surely be "classic" versions made of many maps by the community that more closely resemble the old versions. there are already several remakes in progress on these very boards! so if you really want bland remakes of maps you've already played to death, I'm sure there will be tons of them out there

To be honest, I wish they were doing fewer remakes of old tfc maps. I love playing on new maps, it's what keeps things fresh. It's part of why I became a mapper, dammit! I think it's good that the remakes will be slightly different, because it will add new life to the old locations we know and love. As a mapper myself, I sure as hell wouldn't want to make carbon-copies of all the old maps, that would be boring as hell creatively.

I think you should withhold judgment until you've played the game. Be skeptical if you want, but dont' come here and start insulting people's hard work just because you have a difference of opinion.

Also, don't use the word "retarded", it makes you sound like... a retard. I mean, seriously, who the hell even uses that word any more? Did you take a time machine from the 80's to get here or something? It doesn't even make any sense as an insult in this context, the new maps look anything but retarded. They look brilliant. Brilliant and sexy. mmmm sexeh maps...

o_nezumi · 11-16-2005, 01:25 PM

And anyway TFC wasn't the first Team Fortress game. FF is to some extent a mod of all previous TF games, including but not limited to TFC. I think I'm correct in saying that FF most resembles TFC, but it will have significant contributions from other TF games, including things like trimping.

Also, I'm with Jinx. There should be more original maps from the devs. Ah well, that's what the mapper community is for!

Furthermore, I think that with the added complexity of the geometry of maps, there will be more fun little sg/pipe/sniping/etc. spots than ever, even if they're not the exact same ones. Finding those was always my favorite part of TFC too (Building an SG on the rock arch near the front door of badlands, anyone?)

So, uh, expecting a clone of TFC is kinda narrow sighted.

o_ambex · 11-16-2005, 01:26 PM

What is the point with this thread? Why did you launch this thread?

Mainly this thread is a crumb of nasty. And i think that kamikazi have a similar personality to darkness, wich joined up with shadow for ruining our forum boards and cheating on people claiming hes map as the best one without uninstalling hammer. weirdo

o_sh4x · 11-16-2005, 02:22 PM

I second Ambex here.

darkness98213908 and shadow3874829 are actually annoying sometimes, and this kamikazi1297812 guy isn't acting smart either.

o_shadow34721 · 11-16-2005, 02:33 PM

joined up? uhhh no?
i known darkness for 11 years. he even 'borrowed' my name (shadow34721) from me several years ago (even though he insists otherwise). its his map, i really dont talk to him about it. however i was the one who taught him to use hammer (for what good it did...) so i guess that means i teamed up to ruin the forums? i guess that makes sense considering he joined in early july. gg i guess.

o_rebo · 11-16-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

im not going to burst into flames on this one, however you are extremely narrow sighted, and extraordinary ignorant. It would be nice on this thread for the community to actually give valid reasons to counter his argument and not spout random angry comments...

Thankyou Fresh good post.

o_kam · 11-16-2005, 03:10 PM

The only map that has really changed is crossover, so I guess this is what you're bitching about. Crossover NEEDED to be changed because the original is a spamfest (hello bridge) which is not a good thing. Everything that was good about crossover appears to be retained.

Ok great.

o_fresh · 11-16-2005, 03:26 PM

no problem rebo, i am the peoples poet.

also tfc has no glaring weak spots or things wrong with it to some people because they have literally learnt to live with it, it was the norm and it always will be. Upon playing FF any errors in gameplay induced by map design will be like those of TFC, accepted.

o_docwolfe · 11-16-2005, 03:51 PM

if everything remained "the way it was" we would still be banging two rocks together. Everything evolves, and so must Team Fortress.

o_jinx · 11-16-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaMIKazE

The only map that has really changed is crossover, so I guess this is what you're bitching about. Crossover NEEDED to be changed because the original is a spamfest (hello bridge) which is not a good thing. Everything that was good about crossover appears to be retained.

This is VERY true. When I saw they had altered the bridge area, it impressed me to see that the mappers and devs were paying that much attention to gameplay issues.

o_kam · 11-16-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinx

When I saw they had altered the bridge area, it impressed me to see that the mappers and devs were paying that much attention to gameplay issues.

rofl pretty insulting

Defrag · 11-16-2005, 06:32 PM

Right, so it's "retarded" that it doesn't look exactly like TFC in every detail, but with a few very slight tweaks? That's hardly a compelling argument. It's your opinion, but it's not terribly well justified, nor does it warrant you tagging our level design direction as "retarded".

The fact is, many people have been playing TFC since '99 (no, not 98 as you claim :P, I swear people always elongate their old-skoolness for fun) and, that's a long-assed time to be playing one game. Fortress Forever is NOT TFC on the source engine; it's a fortress game that shares a lot with TFC, but it's not going to be the same. Why make the maps identical in most respects? People get bored of playing the same thing countless times.

Like I said in the other thread, the vast majority are very happy with our level design stuff so far, and if something is unpopular, we will change it.

o_jinx · 11-16-2005, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaMIKazE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinx

When I saw they had altered the bridge area, it impressed me to see that the mappers and devs were paying that much attention to gameplay issues.

rofl pretty insulting

wtf are you talking about?

o_sh4x · 11-16-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinx

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaMIKazE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinx

When I saw they had altered the bridge area, it impressed me to see that the mappers and devs were paying that much attention to gameplay issues.

rofl pretty insulting

wtf are you talking about?

I think he read it faster than his mind could process.

11-16-2005, 07:43 AM	#1
o_kamikazi989 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Constructive Criticism Apparently my last post was a little too harsh and people took it too far by starting arguements and resulted in getting my thread locked. I think it's "retarded" because I expected a mod much like the old TFC. In my view, it is retarded. No, I have other things to do than invest hours into making new maps for a game that isn't worth it when it should be like that in the first place. And mods, people you see approve of the game because those are the ones that stick around here and like it (duh). I'll play it, but it's definitly not like I expected. Oh and also, I provided backup of why I thought it was "retarded". In case you completely ignored it when you were reading through the posts.... I quote myself "but it's not going to have the old TFC feel" as in it is the same concept, but different game. Also, "I was hoping for added realism not a complete re-haul of the game with slightly similiar maps. It's just... that one "sweet" spot where I loved to put my SG or hide as a sniper or put pipe bombs down as a demo man is GONE and I won't be able to enjoy it with this new added realism" THAT'S why I don't like the change of maps. If you can't understand that, then why are argueing?

11-16-2005, 06:32 PM	#18
Defrag Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Scotland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Right, so it's "retarded" that it doesn't look exactly like TFC in every detail, but with a few very slight tweaks? That's hardly a compelling argument. It's your opinion, but it's not terribly well justified, nor does it warrant you tagging our level design direction as "retarded". The fact is, many people have been playing TFC since '99 (no, not 98 as you claim :P, I swear people always elongate their old-skoolness for fun) and, that's a long-assed time to be playing one game. Fortress Forever is NOT TFC on the source engine; it's a fortress game that shares a lot with TFC, but it's not going to be the same. Why make the maps identical in most respects? People get bored of playing the same thing countless times. Like I said in the other thread, the vast majority are very happy with our level design stuff so far, and if something is unpopular, we will change it. __________________ Fortress Forever. Level Designer, Gameplay Dude and whatnot.

11-16-2005, 08:03 AM	#2
o_kamikazi989 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	By the way, I apologize saying you guys are screwing up the maps, because you aren't. Your making it how you want to make it, it's just not what I expected and wanted. But, I also expected others to agree with me at the time. This is all based strictly on my opinion, but I think my opinion would count for something considering I've been playing since 98, been in clans and leagues... and one of the few that STILL play.

11-16-2005, 08:06 AM	#3
o_don chico Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Fernando Valley Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Then why bother to even play this mod? If you want a game like TFC, your best bet is to just keep playing TFC. There will never be another game like it. It seems like to me, you are expecting TFC, but with a graphical upgrade. That is completely pointless. TFC is an awesome game, but it does have flaws. The people developing FF seek to fix those flaws, as well as expand over TFC and create a game to attract other new players not familiar with the TFC you are familiar with. If they were to just create a direct port of TFC, chances are the only people playing this game will be current or maybe even old TFC players. And that is only if they feel it is worth crossing over. Why pay for a new game(HL2) to play a game they already own(TFC for HL1)? I love TFC and I don't doubt that I will not feel weird playing FF expecting to play something exactly like TFC. But I'm sure that FF will grow on me and I will soon get used to it and like it, shit maybe even more than TFC, who knows. My point is you can't expect this to be a pretty version of TFC. There has to be new ideas implemented into this mod in order for new people to come along and play. Sure the maps look different, but who knows, maybe once you get into it you won't even notice the difference. Just give it a chance and don't be so hasty to jump to conclusions. THE END.

11-16-2005, 08:13 AM	#4
o_fresh Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brum. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	im not going to burst into flames on this one, however you are extremely narrow sighted, and extraordinary ignorant. It would be nice on this thread for the community to actually give valid reasons to counter his argument and not spout random angry comments... For a start there is no need making a complete port with added graphics...why would people want to play the same game with ab it more lag? The game is true to TFC made by people who share your love for the game. as for your "sweet spots" it is simply that you fear change. There will be many many more sweet spots in the new versions of the maps, there will be NEW places to pipe and NEW places to put an SG, ffs its half the fun. I must admit that when i first came on the forums, like you i was a little conservative. It took a few choice threads particularly with threads form the likes of Mulch / eat / Defrag to really open my eyes to what the game can be. Your view on this is completely selfish and if you took the time to open your mind then you would realise that this will feel like the game you love, more so than anything valve might do for TF2. They have already said the TF2 will be completely rebuilt with completely new ideas... You need to see the big picture. - FF will be new grounds, however set in the same world you already know and love. - It will feel slightly different, but that's probably for the better, we can learn from all the mistakes that were made in TFC. - Yeah the maps will be slightly different but that's change baby. If you embrace it, it will be new and exciting and most likely more fun. - FF is being made by our peers, players like yourself who have the same love for the game, everyone shares a slightly different vision on the game granted, however the least you can do, for a team that give up so much free time is have a little faith. - Nothing ventured nothing gained. if you decide you do hate FF when it comes out, then all you do is go back to TFC? what have you lost?

11-16-2005, 08:36 AM	#5
o_donny Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	What's point of playing another 5 years with same looking maps that have no detail and models that have lots of polygons? I think new era should bring something else than a new engine. Just when we had though all cool ways and "secrets" of the maps they bring us new versions of the map with new "secrets" you remember which turn to take but your lovely secret conc camp spot may not be there. And what's wrong with that. I think you are, what you say the maps are :P You can always open hammer and make your old versions of the maps. No-body is against if you do.

11-16-2005, 11:20 AM	#7
o_jinx Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ohio Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	kamikazi, there will surely be "classic" versions made of many maps by the community that more closely resemble the old versions. there are already several remakes in progress on these very boards! so if you really want bland remakes of maps you've already played to death, I'm sure there will be tons of them out there To be honest, I wish they were doing fewer remakes of old tfc maps. I love playing on new maps, it's what keeps things fresh. It's part of why I became a mapper, dammit! I think it's good that the remakes will be slightly different, because it will add new life to the old locations we know and love. As a mapper myself, I sure as hell wouldn't want to make carbon-copies of all the old maps, that would be boring as hell creatively. I think you should withhold judgment until you've played the game. Be skeptical if you want, but dont' come here and start insulting people's hard work just because you have a difference of opinion. Also, don't use the word "retarded", it makes you sound like... a retard. I mean, seriously, who the hell even uses that word any more? Did you take a time machine from the 80's to get here or something? It doesn't even make any sense as an insult in this context, the new maps look anything but retarded. They look brilliant. Brilliant and sexy. mmmm sexeh maps...

11-16-2005, 01:25 PM	#8
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	And anyway TFC wasn't the first Team Fortress game. FF is to some extent a mod of all previous TF games, including but not limited to TFC. I think I'm correct in saying that FF most resembles TFC, but it will have significant contributions from other TF games, including things like trimping. Also, I'm with Jinx. There should be more original maps from the devs. Ah well, that's what the mapper community is for! Furthermore, I think that with the added complexity of the geometry of maps, there will be more fun little sg/pipe/sniping/etc. spots than ever, even if they're not the exact same ones. Finding those was always my favorite part of TFC too (Building an SG on the rock arch near the front door of badlands, anyone?) So, uh, expecting a clone of TFC is kinda narrow sighted.

11-16-2005, 01:26 PM	#9
o_ambex Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	What is the point with this thread? Why did you launch this thread? Mainly this thread is a crumb of nasty. And i think that kamikazi have a similar personality to darkness, wich joined up with shadow for ruining our forum boards and cheating on people claiming hes map as the best one without uninstalling hammer. weirdo

11-16-2005, 02:22 PM	#10
o_sh4x Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I second Ambex here. darkness98213908 and shadow3874829 are actually annoying sometimes, and this kamikazi1297812 guy isn't acting smart either.

11-16-2005, 02:33 PM	#11
o_shadow34721 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	joined up? uhhh no? i known darkness for 11 years. he even 'borrowed' my name (shadow34721) from me several years ago (even though he insists otherwise). its his map, i really dont talk to him about it. however i was the one who taught him to use hammer (for what good it did...) so i guess that means i teamed up to ruin the forums? i guess that makes sense considering he joined in early july. gg i guess.

11-16-2005, 03:10 PM	#13
o_kam Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The only map that has really changed is crossover, so I guess this is what you're bitching about. Crossover NEEDED to be changed because the original is a spamfest (hello bridge) which is not a good thing. Everything that was good about crossover appears to be retained. Ok great.

11-16-2005, 03:26 PM	#14
o_fresh Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brum. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	no problem rebo, i am the peoples poet. also tfc has no glaring weak spots or things wrong with it to some people because they have literally learnt to live with it, it was the norm and it always will be. Upon playing FF any errors in gameplay induced by map design will be like those of TFC, accepted.

11-16-2005, 03:51 PM	#15
o_docwolfe Join Date: May 2005 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, England Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	if everything remained "the way it was" we would still be banging two rocks together. Everything evolves, and so must Team Fortress.

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