How to become a dev...

JackBauer · 12-01-2010, 03:02 PM

I really appreciate and respect the effort you guys have put into FF. being able to create a game has always interested me.

I used to program a bit at school and the very old qbasic at home. although I have forgotten pretty much everything by now, I'm wondering what does it take to be capable of coding/creating a mod like FF for example.

What does it take?

C++ and the engine (source/udk)?

How many hours have you invested? I assume it's learning by doing, but somewhere I need to get to know the basics (web/book).

I know this is a stupid question, but what do you reckon how long does it take a n00b till he's ready to use the mighty UDK tools for example?

KubeDawg · 12-01-2010, 03:39 PM

Jack,

here's a link that might help you understand what type of programmers they need for the dev team:

http://www.fortress-forever.com/jobs/

**Ricey** · 12-01-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBauer

I really appreciate and respect the effort you guys have put into FF. being able to create a game has always interested me.

I used to program a bit at school and the very old qbasic at home. although I have forgotten pretty much everything by now, I'm wondering what does it take to be capable of coding/creating a mod like FF for example.

What does it take?

C++ and the engine (source/udk)?

How many hours have you invested? I assume it's learning by doing, but somewhere I need to get to know the basics (web/book).

I know this is a stupid question, but what do you reckon how long does it take a n00b till he's ready to use the mighty UDK tools for example?

Really depends on the person on how quickly they can learn and grasp the concepts of programming. Even then, it also depends on what language you learn first. Learning Basic helps with theory and logic, but that's it.

I'm not a windows developer or os x or linux, but a web developer, so I know those languages better, and if I had to suggest on what language to start learning first, i'd say PHP for non-compiled and AS3 for compiled. AS3 is data-strict so it's good to learn that.

**Dexter** · 12-01-2010, 10:27 PM

You have to be fluent in whatever language or technology the engine uses. For example, source is C++. But with UDK (or any unreal engine) for example, you can make a total conversion using only their built in scripting language Uscript. I actually started with making mods for UT. There are other examples like Torque 3D scripting too. But for source you would need really strong C++ skills, being familiar with shaders and directx would help too. This is entirely from a programming perspective of course, that leaves out all the artwork like textures unwrapping modelling rigging animating mapping props oh jesus all that shit.

edit: the biggest thing isn't the language, its just figuring out how to do things (even more so correctly) with the engine APIs

**Dexter** · 12-01-2010, 10:35 PM

also dont learn PHP that shit is terrible ugh learn something else fun and not web based to start with

Pixel · 12-01-2010, 10:53 PM

I found php to be a good learning language. Of course, I have never done anything major.

JackBauer · 12-01-2010, 11:42 PM

thanks guys for the input.

so you reckon learning C++ would be a good first step?

**Crazycarl** · 12-02-2010, 12:06 AM

Yes, if that interests you. Or you can pick up Hammer, or a graphics program, or a modeling program and make some art.

If you don't know any C++, you'd better learn it first from a book or class before trying any modding. Once you are comfortable enough to read and understant the code you see in books, then open the SDK code and poke around in there.

GenghisTron · 12-02-2010, 02:46 AM

In order to be a developer, you have to develop.

*caruso shades engage*

reaper18 · 12-02-2010, 03:28 AM

Out of curiosity, what would be a good starting point for getting into animation?
Specifically weapon anims/reloading, but it wouldnt hurt to learn a broad spectrum.
Honestly, id like to contribute to FFs development, even if its minor touch ups for the overall polish, but i have some learning to do first

**Crazycarl** · 12-02-2010, 04:59 AM

Get one of the major modeling tools (Maya, Softimage, 3DS, Blender) and fool around with the interface until you are comfortable. If possible, try out several until you find one that suits you. Then follow tutorials.

Animation itself it pretty simple. You just move bones around and set keyframes on a timeline. The hard part is getting a model all set up for animation.

This guy's tutorials helped me immensely: http://www.youtube.com/user/thejazzman9475

**Ricey** · 12-02-2010, 07:44 AM

If you can afford it, http://www.lynda.com .

JackBauer · 12-03-2010, 10:33 AM

How long have you guys been doing your stuff?

**Elmo** · 12-03-2010, 11:12 AM

I've been doing programming of varying kinds for 7 years. Starting with web based stuff then going to college n doing C, C#, Ladder Logic (for controlling PLCs - industrial machines). Then Uni doing C, C#, C++, Java, ASP.Net (C#).

Stepping into game code was pretty confusing despite being very familiar with coding. You have no idea what the last person was thinking when writing it and figuring out how to use the API for source is horrible due to lack of real documentation. Intellisense in visual studio helps a lot but it can be a headfuck trying to figure out how to do what you want to do. Most of the time you copy other bits of code and figure it out commenting on the way.

I've not done much committed into the game on the coding front. Still got a shitload on my machine that I've been working on, from time to time, till I get time to finish it.

On the mapping front... taken from a website I was making for myself (covering all random shit I do) and will finish some day....

Quote:

Getting to grips with Hammer

In 2002 when I attempted to make a map for the World War II style game Medal of Honour: Allied Assault. I had very little understanding of how to map; I didn’t understand the basic concepts and consequently had endless errors in map compiles. All I knew is that I wanted to make one! Compile times were long and the in game performance was terrible.

A few years on playing a new game, Team Fortress Classic (TFC), the desire to make a map was back. Luckily for me the editor was the same (but rebranded) meaning I didn’t need to regain familiarity with the development environment and compile errors. Neither of the two maps I started were finished and as any young teenager, although I continued to play the game, I became distracted with ‘better’ things to do than mapping.
Fortress Forever

Fortress Forever (FF), a game to continue the legacy of TFC, with improved graphics, playability, game modes and features without compromising its main quality, depth. A new hope for classic fortress style gaming.

With too much time on my hands at university, I returned to mapping with the image of having one of the first community maps complete for release. My style of mapping was, again, noticeably better than the previous experiences and with thanks to the support of Valve, hammer editor had become a less buggy editor to use. Unfortunately I lost the progress I had made when I forgot to back up the file during a reformat! Lesson learned. The level of information I knew at the time would be accepted by most as the basic understanding anyone needs for creating a map but I had a lot to learn and I knew I could do better.

I had realised that if I were to make a well performing map, I’d have to research all optimisation techniques and get a complete understanding of how the game engine interprets visibility with regards to map geometry. I spent a few months making small tests for myself, relentlessly reading and rereading sections on websites and the valve developer wiki until I had grasped the concept at hand. If my tests results were not as expected I knew I still had work to do!

Then I started medieval did b2 and then joined the dev team under a mapping role.

Basically I forced myself to understand how the engine worked to figure out what could be seen or couldnt be seen and work on my maps with that in mind. Though you can get away without knowing shit all....

Majesty · 12-03-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexter

also dont learn PHP that shit is terrible ugh learn something else fun and not web based to start with

Agreed. PHP is the devil as far as I'm concerned. But it's on my todo list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackBauer

thanks guys for the input.

so you reckon learning C++ would be a good first step?

No. C++ is a terrible language to start with, but the best to learn. It's like trying to scale a mountain. You have to be able to visualize many different levels of abstraction, keep them organized, and still maintain good coding habits. I recommend starting with something visual. C# is a good starting point(even though it's Windows *crowd boos*. Anything that doesn't make you look at a console screen is good for beginners. I still get night terrors about console development like I'm a freaking shellshock victim from a war. But, if you get good at C++ then learning all other languages is simple. The hard part is staying motivated. As Steven King once said, the trick is to know when to take sips and knowing when to take long swigs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper18

Out of curiosity, what would be a good starting point for getting into animation?
Specifically weapon anims/reloading, but it wouldnt hurt to learn a broad spectrum.
Honestly, id like to contribute to FFs development, even if its minor touch ups for the overall polish, but i have some learning to do first

3dbuzz.com for all your maya tutorials. I really love those guys. All you do is sign up for free and you have a plethora of tutorials that get you started in just about any software. I've learned C++, learned source SDK, and am learning Maya, all thanks to them.

As Dexter hinted at, game dev is a monumental task. If C++ is a mountain, then all of the things that make up game dev is like getting a team to land on the moon. On top of all the technical BS, you have to learn how to work well with others in a team atmosphere, and know when to shut up or put in your two cents. Making a great game almost always requires great teamwork.

**Ricey** · 12-03-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexter

also dont learn PHP that shit is terrible ugh learn something else fun and not web based to start with

Your face is terrible, go take a shower!

RoR/CFML>PHP>ASP

Bridget · 12-03-2010, 12:56 PM

Using PHP now-a-days is a lot like wiping your ass with leaves in a toilet paper factory.

reaper18 · 12-10-2010, 11:21 AM

I have a few questions if anyone can help me out regarding FFs animations:

Who did the current animations?
What program/software was used?
I have the models decompiled into smd's for use with maya. Is it possible to view/edit the current animations doing this? The smds that are obv animations are unable to open in maya unless im doing something wrong.
Is there a list of times so that in the event i cant tweak the current ones(animations), i will know how many key frames to use so that all is in sync?
The bones are there when i load up the weapons but the anims are not.

Google and bing and other search engines leave me scratching my head and the vast majority of tutorials Majesty directed me too just touch the topics that i need to know about weapon animating. Still got a lot to learn and its actually been fun but i have a way of learning by just plain old fiddling with shit

**Crazycarl** · 12-10-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper18

Who did the current animations?

Darkknight, Rebo, Innes, and maybe some other people who are now long gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper18

What program/software was used?

Max and Maya, I believe. I use Max.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper18

I have the models decompiled into smd's for use with maya. Is it possible to view/edit the current animations doing this? The smds that are obv animations are unable to open in maya unless im doing something wrong.

I've never used Maya, but I think you must be doing something wrong. I can't imagine that it wouldn't be able to open animation SMDs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper18

Is there a list of times so that in the event i cant tweak the current ones(animations), i will know how many key frames to use so that all is in sync?

I'm not sure what you mean here. What are you trying to do?

I have access to most of the original smd and qc files, so if decompiling isn't working right, I might be able to get them to you.

reaper18 · 12-11-2010, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

I'm not sure what you mean here. What are you trying to do?

I have access to most of the original smd and qc files, so if decompiling isn't working right, I might be able to get them to you.

What i mean is that if there is no means for me to access the animation smds to tweak them, are there times used for how long the animations take so that i may set the correct amount of keyframes so that the animation, and the sounds, are in sync with each other.

Maya only seems to recognize the reference smd's that are there with each decompile. The rest are animation smd's, but when i try to load them in maya, it gives me an "unrecognizable file" type error.
I wasn't sure if you would be willing to send the original source files, but if that is possible it would save a shit load of trouble and time.
So, would it be possible to send me the source smd and qc files?

If it makes things easier, just add me on steam thru my account name
destroya18

12-01-2010, 03:02 PM	#1
JackBauer Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Switzerland Posts Rated Helpful 20 Times	How to become a dev... I really appreciate and respect the effort you guys have put into FF. being able to create a game has always interested me. I used to program a bit at school and the very old qbasic at home. although I have forgotten pretty much everything by now, I'm wondering what does it take to be capable of coding/creating a mod like FF for example. What does it take? C++ and the engine (source/udk)? How many hours have you invested? I assume it's learning by doing, but somewhere I need to get to know the basics (web/book). I know this is a stupid question, but what do you reckon how long does it take a n00b till he's ready to use the mighty UDK tools for example? __________________ Swiss Fortress Community

12-01-2010, 03:39 PM	#2
KubeDawg Nade Whore Server Owner Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Oklahoma Class/Position: Scout/Soldier Gametype: CTF/TDM Affiliations: blunt. Moto Posts Rated Helpful 128 Times	Jack, here's a link that might help you understand what type of programmers they need for the dev team: http://www.fortress-forever.com/jobs/ __________________ Moto's Funhouse \| Dallas, TX - 74.91.114.247:27015 ff_plunder - Complete

12-01-2010, 10:27 PM	#4
Dexter internet user Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 42 Times	You have to be fluent in whatever language or technology the engine uses. For example, source is C++. But with UDK (or any unreal engine) for example, you can make a total conversion using only their built in scripting language Uscript. I actually started with making mods for UT. There are other examples like Torque 3D scripting too. But for source you would need really strong C++ skills, being familiar with shaders and directx would help too. This is entirely from a programming perspective of course, that leaves out all the artwork like textures unwrapping modelling rigging animating mapping props oh jesus all that shit. edit: the biggest thing isn't the language, its just figuring out how to do things (even more so correctly) with the engine APIs __________________ 9:17 PM - DEXTER: can you teach me how to play o 9:17 PM - squeek.: you jump a lot 9:18 PM - squeek.: and do sweet moves 8:55 PM - FDA: fart in you fridge and blame it on wild animals Last edited by Dexter; 12-01-2010 at 10:34 PM.

12-01-2010, 10:35 PM	#5
Dexter internet user Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 42 Times	also dont learn PHP that shit is terrible ugh learn something else fun and not web based to start with __________________ 9:17 PM - DEXTER: can you teach me how to play o 9:17 PM - squeek.: you jump a lot 9:18 PM - squeek.: and do sweet moves 8:55 PM - FDA: fart in you fridge and blame it on wild animals

12-01-2010, 11:42 PM	#7
JackBauer Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Switzerland Posts Rated Helpful 20 Times	thanks guys for the input. so you reckon learning C++ would be a good first step? __________________ Swiss Fortress Community

12-01-2010, 10:53 PM	#6
Pixel if(0>1){printf("broked");} Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Amerika Class/Position: O Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	I found php to be a good learning language. Of course, I have never done anything major.

12-02-2010, 12:06 AM	#8
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	Yes, if that interests you. Or you can pick up Hammer, or a graphics program, or a modeling program and make some art. If you don't know any C++, you'd better learn it first from a book or class before trying any modding. Once you are comfortable enough to read and understant the code you see in books, then open the SDK code and poke around in there.

12-02-2010, 02:46 AM	#9
GenghisTron AKA LittleAndroidMan D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dystopia Class/Position: Demo/Medic Gametype: CTF Affiliations: [TALOS] [SR] Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	In order to be a developer, you have to develop. caruso shades engage __________________ The Catacombs Steam Last.fm

12-02-2010, 03:28 AM	#10
reaper18 sKeeD D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Scout, Demo, Solly Gametype: Any Posts Rated Helpful 21 Times	Out of curiosity, what would be a good starting point for getting into animation? Specifically weapon anims/reloading, but it wouldnt hurt to learn a broad spectrum. Honestly, id like to contribute to FFs development, even if its minor touch ups for the overall polish, but i have some learning to do first Last edited by reaper18; 12-02-2010 at 03:29 AM.

12-02-2010, 04:59 AM	#11
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	Get one of the major modeling tools (Maya, Softimage, 3DS, Blender) and fool around with the interface until you are comfortable. If possible, try out several until you find one that suits you. Then follow tutorials. Animation itself it pretty simple. You just move bones around and set keyframes on a timeline. The hard part is getting a model all set up for animation. This guy's tutorials helped me immensely: http://www.youtube.com/user/thejazzman9475

12-02-2010, 07:44 AM	#12
Ricey UI Designer Front-End Developer Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2008 Location: Winter Park, FL Class/Position: D Eng Gametype: CTF 9v9 Affiliations: .gr , smr Posts Rated Helpful 46 Times	If you can afford it, http://www.lynda.com . __________________ Support FF: Maps : Haste \|Scrummage \|Mulch_Trench Voltage \| Exchange Classic \| Fortsake ricecakes: I demand SGs get a buff squeek.: buy it a gym membership 'I have an eye for design' - Kube 2014

12-03-2010, 10:33 AM	#13
JackBauer Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Switzerland Posts Rated Helpful 20 Times	How long have you guys been doing your stuff? __________________ Swiss Fortress Community

12-03-2010, 12:56 PM	#17
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Using PHP now-a-days is a lot like wiping your ass with leaves in a toilet paper factory.

12-10-2010, 11:21 AM	#18
reaper18 sKeeD D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Scout, Demo, Solly Gametype: Any Posts Rated Helpful 21 Times	I have a few questions if anyone can help me out regarding FFs animations: Who did the current animations? What program/software was used? I have the models decompiled into smd's for use with maya. Is it possible to view/edit the current animations doing this? The smds that are obv animations are unable to open in maya unless im doing something wrong. Is there a list of times so that in the event i cant tweak the current ones(animations), i will know how many key frames to use so that all is in sync? The bones are there when i load up the weapons but the anims are not. Google and bing and other search engines leave me scratching my head and the vast majority of tutorials Majesty directed me too just touch the topics that i need to know about weapon animating. Still got a lot to learn and its actually been fun but i have a way of learning by just plain old fiddling with shit

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