give me your best ideas

SSCUJO · 01-13-2010, 07:25 PM

ok i know nobody thinks this thread belongs here, but consider this an experiment. i ask this only of players that play in leagues and pickups, i don't need to hear opinions from pub players, only organized play, i want you to create a useable sniper class.

no limits just make it serious please. just fill in the list, only 2 requirements it must do alot of damage and it must fire long range(both make a sniper a sniper)

to begin how do you see YOUR sniper?

position: offense, defence, both?
Speed: medic fast, current, soli slow?
secondary gren: conc, nail grenade, be creative?
secondary weapon: AR, shottie, be creative?
hp and armour: how much does he need to work?
main weapon dmg type: hit scan, projectile, explosive?
firerate/charge rate: faster, slower, none?
how many granades: more, less?
dmg: more, less, same?
and any side notes you'd like to add.

also assume that hitboxes are a non issue.

don't tell me it wouldn't work no matter what, make it work, you have the ability to turn the sniper into whatever you want, i don't care how out there it sounds, MAKE IT WORK.

basically create a sniper that could replace a second solider or one of the medics. give him a purpose, even one small thing that the others can't do but is needed, even a utility class that can be switched to in a certain situation then switch'd off of later.

BE CREATIVE, LETS HERE IT.

Bridget · 01-13-2010, 08:41 PM

Position: Defense
Speed: 280
Secondary Grenade: None
Secondary Weapon: Single Shotgun
HP and Armor: 90 health, 100 armor
Main Weapon DMG Type: projectile based
Firerate: Probably variable, only until your preexisting projectile is gone
How Many Grenades: 1 fragmentation grenade
Damage: very weak splash damage, but high direct hit damage.

The weapon should work like in theory the Disc Launcher from Tribes, because I can't think of any other good example of a projectile based weapon used for sniping that doesn't suck. It should deal very poor splash damage, but deal high damage with direct hits. In addition, it should become more powerful the longer its projectile flies through the air, denying it any use at close range, and rewarding Snipers for long range accuracy. Here are some downsides:

Disc Launcher (come up with a name) is absolutely useless at close range.
Disc Launcher is not inherently powerful. You must use it well to make it such.
Disc Launcher is projectile based. You'd best learn to lead shots with it.
Rate of Fire limited to the distance you play at.

Class downsides go something like this:

Near useless at close range, 1 fragmentation grenade maximum.
Reliant on a super shotgun + crowbar for self defense.
Requires leading shots and prediction to hit enemies, not POINT 'n' CLICK hitscan.
Average usage at medium range, long range for 'pros'.

You can see the Tribes Disc Launcher here:
(protip: The view model is in the thumbnail.):

YouTube

SSCUJO · 01-13-2010, 09:03 PM

nice idea, i like it, although looking for ideas more so from the pickup community.

zelenjava · 01-13-2010, 09:14 PM

IMO
maybe slgihtly more armor than current, no grenades, either a weaker version of the AR or a single barrel shotgun or something. Instead of a sniper rifle i nominate a projectile version of the HLDM guass gun (much like the engineer railgun). Damage lower than the hldm guass obviously. Can only carry a low amount of ammo so you cant camp, have to pick up bags. No built in zoom function. The guass can be used for movement (should be more effective than the railgun). The projectile should be faster than the railgun and have similar reg. Imo it makes for a fun movement/aim based class that can benefit slightly more spaced out maps than 2fort but still not dominate from openfire balc on defense or something. I would play it, im bored of shotguns and grenades :P

Sidd · 01-13-2010, 10:16 PM

Super Railgun

Same as engineer's railgun but faster projectile and more damage.

**Elmo** · 01-14-2010, 04:06 PM

The best idea I could come up with. I doubt the values are correct but the core idea is there.

CLASS ATTRIBUTES

Position: Defence
Speed: 280
Fragmentation Grenades: 1
Special Grenades: 2
Health: 90
Armour: 110
Armour Class: Medium

PRIMARY WEAPON

Type: Electronic Beam Projectile (~96/128 units in length)
Projectile Speed: Approx. Engi Rail
Rate Of Fire: 1.5s between shots
Clip Size: ~4 Shots
Reload time: ~1.5s (reload + shoot = 3 seconds)
Damage: Approx. 2 shot scout, 3 shot med/spy/pyro
Available Zoom: maybe none. maybe some. maybe same.

Attributes and expandable ideas
Charging occurs regardless of whether gun is wielded (so long as clip is not empty)

SOFT deceleration to 75% of current speed upon being shot

Increased damage with consecutive hits (~130%)

Potential projectile length increase with distance travelled

Projectile with length increases hit chance

Potential Chain reaction affecting bunched players (lightening bolt style)

SPECIAL GRENADE

Type: Shock Gren
Used in conjunction with primary weapon for increased damage and chain reaction radius
Low Damage when used on own
Reduced manoeuvrability/speed on being hit

SECONDARY WEAPON
Single or Super Shotty depending on how the rest works out

SUMMARISED THOUGHTS

1 shot + infinite range combination is very bad
give enemies a chance at getting closer to the sniper
promote interaction between players
reward those snipers who are more consistent (multiplier)
slow enemies in reaching you without annoyance of leg shots
give sniper a chance to fight closer enemies (super shotty)
chain reaction lets the sniper handle more than one enemy while focussing on one

SSCUJO · 01-14-2010, 06:53 PM

great great ideas, elmo do you see that class replacing a second solider in a defencive position? if not is there anything else it needs to put it into that position?

**Elmo** · 01-14-2010, 08:05 PM

See, I was thinking that during public play it would still be played in the yard (being suited to long range) but I was also trying to consider places inside the base that it might be useful; compared to the current sniper who is currently USELESS close quarters inside bases. And yeah I had been thinking places similar to where a soldier might go.

What are your thoughts on that basic idea.

SSCUJO · 01-15-2010, 01:58 AM

i really really really like the idea of a lighting style dmg that effects enemy's close by,it would work great in choke points. the idea has some potential.

zE · 01-15-2010, 09:14 AM

Meh, im not a fan at all of messing with classes, add more classes instead if u guys think that it would benefit the game, instead of changing classes that are familiar for all tf players.

**Elmo** · 01-15-2010, 10:46 AM

sorry zE but the classes can and will change

KubeDawg · 01-15-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidd

Super Railgun

Same as engineer's railgun but faster projectile and more damage.

Maybe a scoped railgun?

CHURCHMOUTH · 01-15-2010, 08:23 PM

why get rid of the sniper? im confused...

edited by squeek

**Elmo** · 01-15-2010, 09:28 PM

hmm thanks?!

Dr.Satan · 01-15-2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHURCHMOUTH

why get rid of the sniper?

why not? What contribution to the game does the sniper give currently. When is it the better option, etc.

Hammock · 01-15-2010, 10:52 PM

The shock gun from UT is the first thing that comes to mind for me. Nnot its ulternate fire/combo explosion thing, that'd be a complete rip off, but the primary fire.

position: offense
Speed: faster than medic slower than scout
secondary gren: caltrops (Oh ya, they gotta make a come back, but old school TFC style not FF's failed version)
secondary weapon: single shotty
hp and armour: more than scout, less than medic
main weapon dmg type: hit scan but it'll be more in line with a pulse weapon's dimensions instead of a bullet's dimensions of a dot.
firerate/charge rate: as fast as the supper shotty, no charge, and static damage
how many granades: standard 4 primary, 2 caltrops
dmg: does about the same as a super shotty, only difference is it'll be far more acurate at long range.

He gets 10 shots before reload, and can carry as much spare ammo as a medic can for his super shotty.

It's ult fire can be a spray burst (like the frack cannon in UT but much shorter, like maybe 3-4 times the distance of melee combat, and they shoot straight), give him the speed reduction stuff you gave the HW's AC.

No more zoom, and no more headshots, he'll be strong in cross room combat and taking out sg's. Get in close, and the +attack2 little blasts will add up in damage pretty quick (this is his stopping power if he for whatever reason want's to defend in pubs) , plus he doesn't need to be super accurate.

Voila, a class capable of being dead accurate at long distances, yet quite strong in close quarters, since it'll be similar damage to the shotty (if the super shotty were to be a 100% hit, which usually isn't the case) so per successfull hit he'll do more than the super shotty. He won't have concs though so he won't rape O more than the medic, but he'll run faster atleast, so he'll be better in DMing especially close quarters.

KubeDawg · 01-15-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

why not? What contribution to the game does the sniper give currently. When is it the better option, etc.

Why not try FIXing the class instead of just giving up?

Dr.Satan · 01-15-2010, 11:11 PM

you can't fix it until you outline what you want it to be, and what the problems with it are

reaper18 · 01-16-2010, 12:32 AM

why fix something thats not broken.

Bridget · 01-16-2010, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper18

why fix something thats not broken.

Good question! Sniper is broken, though. *fail.wav*

01-13-2010, 07:25 PM	#1
SSCUJO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	give me your best ideas ok i know nobody thinks this thread belongs here, but consider this an experiment. i ask this only of players that play in leagues and pickups, i don't need to hear opinions from pub players, only organized play, i want you to create a useable sniper class. no limits just make it serious please. just fill in the list, only 2 requirements it must do alot of damage and it must fire long range(both make a sniper a sniper) to begin how do you see YOUR sniper? position: offense, defence, both? Speed: medic fast, current, soli slow? secondary gren: conc, nail grenade, be creative? secondary weapon: AR, shottie, be creative? hp and armour: how much does he need to work? main weapon dmg type: hit scan, projectile, explosive? firerate/charge rate: faster, slower, none? how many granades: more, less? dmg: more, less, same? and any side notes you'd like to add. also assume that hitboxes are a non issue. don't tell me it wouldn't work no matter what, make it work, you have the ability to turn the sniper into whatever you want, i don't care how out there it sounds, MAKE IT WORK. basically create a sniper that could replace a second solider or one of the medics. give him a purpose, even one small thing that the others can't do but is needed, even a utility class that can be switched to in a certain situation then switch'd off of later. BE CREATIVE, LETS HERE IT. Last edited by SSCUJO; 01-14-2010 at 01:12 AM.

01-14-2010, 04:06 PM	#6
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	The best idea I could come up with. I doubt the values are correct but the core idea is there. CLASS ATTRIBUTES Position: Defence Speed: 280 Fragmentation Grenades: 1 Special Grenades: 2 Health: 90 Armour: 110 Armour Class: Medium PRIMARY WEAPON Type: Electronic Beam Projectile (~96/128 units in length) Projectile Speed: Approx. Engi Rail Rate Of Fire: 1.5s between shots Clip Size: ~4 Shots Reload time: ~1.5s (reload + shoot = 3 seconds) Damage: Approx. 2 shot scout, 3 shot med/spy/pyro Available Zoom: maybe none. maybe some. maybe same. Attributes and expandable ideas Charging occurs regardless of whether gun is wielded (so long as clip is not empty) SOFT deceleration to 75% of current speed upon being shot Increased damage with consecutive hits (~130%) Potential projectile length increase with distance travelled Projectile with length increases hit chance Potential Chain reaction affecting bunched players (lightening bolt style) SPECIAL GRENADE Type: Shock Gren Used in conjunction with primary weapon for increased damage and chain reaction radius Low Damage when used on own Reduced manoeuvrability/speed on being hit SECONDARY WEAPON Single or Super Shotty depending on how the rest works out SUMMARISED THOUGHTS 1 shot + infinite range combination is very bad give enemies a chance at getting closer to the sniper promote interaction between players reward those snipers who are more consistent (multiplier) slow enemies in reaching you without annoyance of leg shots give sniper a chance to fight closer enemies (super shotty) chain reaction lets the sniper handle more than one enemy while focussing on one __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999) Last edited by Elmo; 01-14-2010 at 04:45 PM.

01-14-2010, 08:05 PM	#8
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	See, I was thinking that during public play it would still be played in the yard (being suited to long range) but I was also trying to consider places inside the base that it might be useful; compared to the current sniper who is currently USELESS close quarters inside bases. And yeah I had been thinking places similar to where a soldier might go. What are your thoughts on that basic idea. __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999) Last edited by Elmo; 01-14-2010 at 08:23 PM.

01-15-2010, 09:14 AM	#10
zE Pew pew ze beams Join Date: Jan 2008 Gametype: Gathers Affiliations: pew pew Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	Meh, im not a fan at all of messing with classes, add more classes instead if u guys think that it would benefit the game, instead of changing classes that are familiar for all tf players. Last edited by zE; 01-15-2010 at 09:15 AM.

01-15-2010, 10:46 AM	#11
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	sorry zE but the classes can and will change __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999)

01-13-2010, 09:03 PM	#3
SSCUJO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	nice idea, i like it, although looking for ideas more so from the pickup community.

01-13-2010, 09:14 PM	#4
zelenjava pew pew cry Bridget Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times	IMO maybe slgihtly more armor than current, no grenades, either a weaker version of the AR or a single barrel shotgun or something. Instead of a sniper rifle i nominate a projectile version of the HLDM guass gun (much like the engineer railgun). Damage lower than the hldm guass obviously. Can only carry a low amount of ammo so you cant camp, have to pick up bags. No built in zoom function. The guass can be used for movement (should be more effective than the railgun). The projectile should be faster than the railgun and have similar reg. Imo it makes for a fun movement/aim based class that can benefit slightly more spaced out maps than 2fort but still not dominate from openfire balc on defense or something. I would play it, im bored of shotguns and grenades :P

01-13-2010, 10:16 PM	#5
Sidd Lua Team Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Super Railgun Same as engineer's railgun but faster projectile and more damage.

01-14-2010, 06:53 PM	#7
SSCUJO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	great great ideas, elmo do you see that class replacing a second solider in a defencive position? if not is there anything else it needs to put it into that position?

01-15-2010, 01:58 AM	#9
SSCUJO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i really really really like the idea of a lighting style dmg that effects enemy's close by,it would work great in choke points. the idea has some potential.

01-15-2010, 08:23 PM	#13
CHURCHMOUTH crystaLcity D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Soldier D Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Goodfellas Posts Rated Helpful 7 Times	why get rid of the sniper? im confused... edited by squeek __________________ 83745 L0LZ ff_nyx_b2 ff_schrape_b3 ff_security_b1 ff_baked_b2 ff_reloaded_b1 ff_mulch_dm_b2 ff_oppose_b1 Last edited by squeek.; 01-15-2010 at 09:44 PM. Reason: No need for insults

01-15-2010, 09:28 PM	#14
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	hmm thanks?! __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999)

01-15-2010, 10:52 PM	#16
Hammock D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	The shock gun from UT is the first thing that comes to mind for me. Nnot its ulternate fire/combo explosion thing, that'd be a complete rip off, but the primary fire. position: offense Speed: faster than medic slower than scout secondary gren: caltrops (Oh ya, they gotta make a come back, but old school TFC style not FF's failed version) secondary weapon: single shotty hp and armour: more than scout, less than medic main weapon dmg type: hit scan but it'll be more in line with a pulse weapon's dimensions instead of a bullet's dimensions of a dot. firerate/charge rate: as fast as the supper shotty, no charge, and static damage how many granades: standard 4 primary, 2 caltrops dmg: does about the same as a super shotty, only difference is it'll be far more acurate at long range. He gets 10 shots before reload, and can carry as much spare ammo as a medic can for his super shotty. It's ult fire can be a spray burst (like the frack cannon in UT but much shorter, like maybe 3-4 times the distance of melee combat, and they shoot straight), give him the speed reduction stuff you gave the HW's AC. No more zoom, and no more headshots, he'll be strong in cross room combat and taking out sg's. Get in close, and the +attack2 little blasts will add up in damage pretty quick (this is his stopping power if he for whatever reason want's to defend in pubs) , plus he doesn't need to be super accurate. Voila, a class capable of being dead accurate at long distances, yet quite strong in close quarters, since it'll be similar damage to the shotty (if the super shotty were to be a 100% hit, which usually isn't the case) so per successfull hit he'll do more than the super shotty. He won't have concs though so he won't rape O more than the medic, but he'll run faster atleast, so he'll be better in DMing especially close quarters.

01-15-2010, 11:11 PM	#18
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	you can't fix it until you outline what you want it to be, and what the problems with it are __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

01-16-2010, 12:32 AM	#19
reaper18 sKeeD D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Class/Position: Scout, Demo, Solly Gametype: Any Posts Rated Helpful 21 Times	why fix something thats not broken.

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