are we ever

[Carrots]

going to get to a point where the developers advertise this mod?

i remember hearing one of them say it will be advertised when 2.5 comes out and it will be put on the orange box but that doesn't look like it's going to happen

so should we take matters into our own hands? should we wait till 2.42 or 2.5??

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by Carrots

going to get to a point where the developers advertise this mod?

i remember hearing one of them say it will be advertised when 2.5 comes out and it will be put on the orange box but that doesn't look like it's going to happen

so should we take matters into our own hands? should we wait till 2.42 or 2.5??

The devs do advertise the mod, it's been on ModDB's MOTM.

Honestly carrot, all you do is complain and whine, like an old Jewish lady. Hell, you are worse than an old Jewish lady. At least they know what they are whining about. Do you know how much money real marketing costs? It's more then you'll ever make in ten life times. So, if you want to cough up money feel free too.

[Ricey]

Also:

ModDB Stats
Rank 396 of 13,476
Visits 173,500 (98 today)
Last Update 2 weeks ago
Watchers 951 members

[Carrots]

well obviously whatever they are doing now is not working...

[Bridget]

Advertising isn't the problem. Doing a month's worth of work then waiting a year to release the patch is the problem. Continuously breaking the game and then waiting a year or two to attempt to address the issue (and miss horribly when you get around to releasing the "fix") all the while letting people have bad experiences and/or come to bad conclusions about the modification is the problem. Having a community full of sociopathic nerds is also a huge problem; terrible admins who ban people for saying "bad words" included. There's no hope. I'm not being purposefully negative, either, I'm being honest.

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Advertising isn't the problem. Doing a month's worth of work then waiting a year to release the patch is the problem. Continuously breaking the game and then waiting a year or two to attempt to address the issue (and miss horribly when you get around to releasing the "fix") all the while letting people have bad experiences and/or come to bad conclusions about the modification is the problem.

My steamworks argument still applies to this I think. Steamworks would allow them to be able to make/revert changes to this mod on the fly so that no users are really negatively effected by it. It downloads a new version(or older version if some new feature goes screwy or servers won't stop crashing, etc) automatically so people don't gotta fuck with it.

And yes, the devs have come up with a pretty clever workaround that basically notifies users when their FF version is out of date as well as notifying users when a server is out of date, but I think it can be much more simple than that.

Out of the slew of ideas out there to improve FF's small stagnant community, I think Steamworks would not only bring in the most users but also retain more users than a lot of other game changes so we can start getting and keeping servers full.

Maybe the devs want to wait till a certain patch or new version before trying to do steamworks, because steamworks I think could give FF a big boost of new players and they want to make a good impression on newcomers, but waiting for features to be completed with the full knowledge that there are not that many developers to begin with, not that much time gets spent on it due to people having actual lives(Yes I know, shocking), so that makes me wonder why not just release Fortress Forever on steamworks once the 2.42 patch comes out because who knows how long it's going to take for 2.5 to be released?

[Icculus]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Having a community full of sociopathic nerds is also a huge problem;.

Something about a pot and kettle comes to mind here....

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

My steamworks argument still applies to this I think. Steamworks would allow them to be able to make/revert changes to this mod on the fly so that no users are really negatively effected by it. It downloads a new version(or older version if some new feature goes screwy or servers won't stop crashing, etc) automatically so people don't gotta fuck with it.

And yes, the devs have come up with a pretty clever workaround that basically notifies users when their FF version is out of date as well as notifying users when a server is out of date, but I think it can be much more simple than that.

Out of the slew of ideas out there to improve FF's small stagnant community, I think Steamworks would not only bring in the most users but also retain more users than a lot of other game changes so we can start getting and keeping servers full.

Maybe the devs want to wait till a certain patch or new version before trying to do steamworks, because steamworks I think could give FF a big boost of new players and they want to make a good impression on newcomers, but waiting for features to be completed with the full knowledge that there are not that many developers to begin with, not that much time gets spent on it due to people having actual lives(Yes I know, shocking), so that makes me wonder why not just release Fortress Forever on steamworks once the 2.42 patch comes out because who knows how long it's going to take for 2.5 to be released?

The developers have been denied Steamworks, apparently. Besides, even if they could update on the fly, do you think they would? Fuck no.

[zE]

FF problem isnt advertising, the problem is that just 1% of players who try it continue to play it.
I think mainly because the game isnt rewarding at all for new comers.

[Bridget]

Yeah, this game is geared toward people who already know how to play. Beginners really have no chance, unless they are super dedicated or gifted. Every beginner-friendly suggestion is put down though by pickup nerds because they don't want anyone threatening their monopoly on Fortress Forever.

[episkopos]

There are a number of problems. Lack of advertising, unwelcoming community, competition from TF2, and Bridget is right in that there is a hell of a lot to learn in order to be able to play decently. The lack of tutorial exascerbates this.

[zE]

I´m not sayng its because its hard to master, im just sayng isnt rewarding at all, for example just now i was beyng pwned in TF2 as heavy kd of like 1 frag per each 5 deaths but i got a new blonde elvis hair so thats kinda rewarding : p, nowadays games need to reward new players in some way, to make them play longer and longer thats how it is since 2009 maybe.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yeah, this game is geared toward people who already know how to play. Beginners really have no chance, unless they are super dedicated or gifted. Every beginner-friendly suggestion is put down though by pickup nerds because they don't want anyone threatening their monopoly on Fortress Forever.

I'm not a pickup player, and I oppose some of those "beginner friendly" changes, as you call them.

I'm opposed to anything that removes the skill from the game. I'm not profficiant at everything, far from it. But I believe that removing the skill based part of the game will do nothing more than echo what TF2 has done to the genre. That said, I do favor changes that will allow beginners to learn to the game, and allow them to become veterans capable of competing with current vets.

Part of the problem, lies with the gamer of today. I've said it countless times. Gamers want to be able to just join in, and kick ass... you know, pwn people.

You talk out of your ass about doing this, that and the other thing. You know damned well that we have few active Devs(and I don't see people knocking down the doors to assist), and that the time they have is very limited. Yet you sit there and keep tossing out rants about how they should dedicate every waking moment to a game that frankly, they won't make a penny off of. These are people with real life jobs, families, and responcibilities.

Instead of bitching all the time, why don't you do something positive for a change? You put enough effort into being a negative nancy, redirect it and do something positive for once.

[moosh]

"FF is supposed to be about bringing TF to modern times, evolved into something more fun and appealing without losing its soul."

-trepid_jon

Mr. trepid_jon pretty much nailed it.

[spambot2.1]

i think the problem with ff is ot server. no i am not banned from ot but their ban list figures for ff are crazy! they really shuold chill out a little considering this game only really has 2 na servers talos and ot. and the number of players is so low.

[KubeDawg]

Why do you think OT is the problem? What prevents you from playing in other servers?

Is there something I'm not getting here?

I mean yeah if newcomers play in the OT server, they have to adhere to the rules of that server. Obviously a single server cannot reflect the size of the community of players.

This game has more than enough servers to hold the amount of active players in the FF community, even yes without the OT server...

I find it best to simply ignore their server. I wouldn't play there even if I hadn't been banned. That's why I choose Talos, The Mentalhouse, even the One World server is better than OT and it's on 24/7 2fort!


A single server can not have that sort of impact on this community.

[episkopos]

Originally Posted by zE

I´m not sayng its because its hard to master, im just sayng isnt rewarding at all, for example just now i was beyng pwned in TF2 as heavy kd of like 1 frag per each 5 deaths but i got a new blonde elvis hair so thats kinda rewarding : p, nowadays games need to reward new players in some way, to make them play longer and longer thats how it is since 2009 maybe.

I agree, simple achievements, badges, things like that would help.

Also highlight the noob-friendly classes on the class selection screen for the first few times the player connects to a server.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

Why do you think OT is the problem? What prevents you from playing in other servers?

Is there something I'm not getting here?

I mean yeah if newcomers play in any server, they have to adhere to the rules of that server. Obviously a single server cannot reflect the size of the community of players.

This game has more than enough servers to hold the amount of active players in the FF community, even yes without the OT server...

I find it best to simply ignore their server. I wouldn't play there even if I hadn't been banned. That's why I choose Talos, The Mentalhouse, even the One World server is better than OT and it's on 24/7 2fort!


A single server can not have that sort of impact on this community.

I agree, but I edited my quote to reflect the simple truth of it. (Changed "the OT" to "any")

[Lynus]

i will say 2 things.

1. before knowing him and when clans and the ugc were around, i took carrots into my clan with open arms. i also took in 4 other people who'm i never met before. out of the 4, i regret accepting carrots - regardless of things people warned me with him. he never came to practices, skipped practices and a an actual match to play tfc pickups. i know im not the most upstanding citizen of this community, but this is also the same kid who would get on his microphone in a pub and repeat the same three words, 'CHEF YOU MAD?!' at the top of his lungs for about 5 minutes straight. OH AND I ALMOST FORGOT ROFL.... he spelled his name carrotts because hes obviously a highschool dropout who(if i met) would get curbstomped like the lil bitch kid that he is. this is not someone that is good for FF or its community.

2. if FF wants to succeed, it needs 2 things imo:
the first is a solid group of active developers that genuinely want to see FF succeed who also have an open mind. FF is not TFC source as much as I want it to be. the devs should be able to set and achieve reasonable goals even if they only have a very limited time to work on things.

idk how they do things now, but from a beta testers viewpoint - i really dont see any goalsetting and achieving going on. (i could be wrong)

the second is more general... it needs that "oooh, aahhhh, sweeet!" factor. the "look what i just did" factor. that is done with achievements/badges and yes a tutorial which(idk if im allowed to say it but - there is a very sexy tutorial in the works. it should be released with the next patch)

that stuff aside, all i can do is hope that if someone who's never played tfc or FF does give FF a try is not greeted by a huge map with 4 players/a tiny map with 20 players/ or the banhammer that is inevitable on the OT server.

[The Drizzle]

Perhaps it's time that development was turned over to people who "have less of a life" and more of an interest in developing the game. An update a year is a dead mod, time to let it go to better people with more time.