Flagrun Suggestions

[KubeDawg]

Speaking of Casbah, I've played a version that's been ported over and changed a bit. It's a great map, I'll link it up after I get off work(In about 5 hrs... O NOES TEH SUHSPENSE!!!1)

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Yeah, there are four flags, but you get points for each one you have at your base. I think I'll give a bonus if you cap all four, because that should be pretty tough to accomplish.

I don't remember how flagrun was scored. Did you only get points for getting all the flags?

I think the original flagrun can be improved a lot without changing the layout much. For one thing there's a lot of empty space that serves no purpose, yet other parts seem claustrophobic. I'd open up the middle ground, but still provide plenty of cover. That's one thing I like about the original, especially playing pyro.

The neutral flag spawn is rather awkward. There's no need to put them in that tower. I've played in games where a flag returned and people forgot about it for a long time. It just sat there in the tower.

One thing I really don't like is how flagrun does the exits from the midfield into enemy territory. They are these big boring wide tunnels (with an obvious curve for vis-blocking) that aren't fun to attack or to defend. I'd either find a way to make them shorter or put in some spots for defeners and sentries, making them good spots for front-line defense.

Then you come out into an open area in which you have to either mulch or rush past any defenders. Sometimes it's used for first line defense, but since it's not a chokepoint, it's not often used. I probably wouldn't change this too much, because this space acts as a buffer between the offense and the flags. A little better cover and height variation would not hurt.

Then you go into the flag area which has very narrow stairs and corridors. I'd definitely open these up a bit because they are prone to blocking. With cloaking, a spy could really terrorize the defense in here.

The spawns are good, they are well connected to the rest of the map. There's a potential for spawn camping off the battlements, but it's not a big problem with the amount of traffic coming out.

I don't think capping all the flags gave any bonus on flagrun, because in the long run, it wouldn't add any sigficance to the score. 4 flags = 40 points. an extra bonus of 10 points wouldn't matter if the other team also caps the 4 flags, because then they would also get the bonus points, and the scores would even back out. At least, i think that's why there were no bonus points.

Yea i didn't like the tunnel thing either. The reason i like flag run so much is because there's was that huge entrance into the flag room, and then a small entrace to the side. The flag room itself is a big dm arena lol. but people like me, who play scout could just conc-circle the sentry, then conc back out, without being bogged down by dm matches. But if i went as a soldier or spy, i actually welcomed some DM action.

The neutral flags were a pain in the rear. I didn't see any point in them either. Post pics and goodies of progess? I LUVs ctf maps with multiple flags and big rooms.

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

Speaking of Casbah, I've played a version that's been ported over and changed a bit. It's a great map, I'll link it up after I get off work(In about 5 hrs... O NOES TEH SUHSPENSE!!!1)

Awsome. I've been hoping for a remake/port of this map. I'm gonna want to check this one out for definite. The good maps are starting come in!

[Crazycarl]

These are from the TFC version. I'm still replacing textures on Source so theres nothing to show of that. There are some layout improvements I want to make, too.

random courtyard leading to the nml


no man's land. The crates are gone and the grass will be too, I think. I may decide to spawn flags in the center when they return:


Lower part of base. There's a cap point behind the crates. It's really close to the nml so I think I'll move it back:

[Nuk3m]

and then....

[Nuk3m]

is someone working on this?

[GeoKill----->]

Mikequist is still working on it, he is a busy with school atm. He also had a couple problems custom with textures, models, etc...

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by davidmncc

OK, we will investigate why PP is short-changing people of the trial period

...what?

Edit: Oh, spambot. Nevermind then.

Strangest thing a spambot has ever said...

[MikeQuist]

Sorry to bring a thread up from the dead. I just found my 99% complete Flagrun map. For any of you guys who were around 3 years ago when I was making it, should I finish it or give it away??? Basically I'm asking: Do people still play this game and if so should I put the time and effort into finishing it?

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by MikeQuist

Sorry to bring a thread up from the dead. I just found my 99% complete Flagrun map. For any of you guys who were around 3 years ago when I was making it, should I finish it or give it away??? Basically I'm asking: Do people still play this game and if so should I put the time and effort into finishing it?

Finish it!

[KubeDawg]

Well if it's over 90% finished, then I'd say finish it if you have the time.

[DarkieJ]

Finish it

[Crazycarl]

If you want to finish it, finish it. Otherwise give it away.

To be honest, if it's not CTF or attack/defend, it won't get played much, unfortunately.

[Gwarsbane]

There is a couple of problems with the current flag run. The biggest being that scouts pretty much rule the game because they can make it from their base to the flags almost as quick as people can get into their own flag room.

Now to some that might not be a problem but you get 1 or 2 people good with concs and the round can be very quickly. Depending on if there is anything to block jumping up to get the 2 other flags in the middle then it can be all over even before the flags are released.

This very quickly drives people away, why, because even if they could set up a coordinated defense in the flag room, a scout is either already there or almost there on a single conc, then they use another conc to grab the flag and they are gone.

Now things might change with the next patch but going on the current patch here is my suggestions.

Limit to 1 scout and 1 medic on each side and start them off with only 1 conc. This either slows them down getting to the flag and getting away, or makes stop for the bag of concs, which again slows them down and gives the defense time to actually get a defense up.

Also the scouts and medics could spawn in the secondary spawn near the back of the base under the little bridge where there is a ramp.

Either one of those things would give the defense time to set up something.



Again by the time an engi gets to the flag area and starts to build an SG a scout is already in there taking the flag and its either stop building the sg and try to shoot or build the sg and hope the scout messes up and comes into range of the and doesn't just conc out.

Thats what my experience with flag run as been, people get frustrated and leave because the rounds are over so quickly because scouts come flying through even before a decent defense can be set up and thats with good players who are communicating well in a pub.

[GenghisTron]

.......here we go again

[GenghisTron]

OP, just ignore Gwarsbane, he started this discussion in a previous flagrun thread, and it was pretty much agreed that what he was talking about was not possible and his team was just bad. Flagrun is fine.

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...hlight=flagrun

Previous discussion there

[Gwarsbane]

Already GenghisTron is lying because Nubs confirmed that he was beating me to my own flag room. So guess what... I guess it IS possible what I was saying IS possible.

See
http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...7&postcount=40


A SCOUT FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP, WAS BEATING AN ENGI AND OTHERS TO THEIR OWN FLAG ROOM.

He was making it in 10 seconds or less.

How do you defend against that? You can't, why? Because you're not even there yet and unless you're playing a scout you're not going to get there and setup a defense before a half decent concer gets there.

Only way to have a chance to win is to have a good concer on your team, but well we know chances of that are not going to happen, specially in the pub.


Some of you people act like slowing the pace down just a little, just enough to allow a defense to be set up is going to ruin the whole game when the fact is its not. Having things too fast is ruining the game (at least that map) when you can't set up any kind of defense.

It makes me laugh when I see people complaining about the sniper so the sniper gets nerfed or limited on maps, or any of the other classes except for scout... mess with the scout any and ohhhh its going to kill the whole game.

How about you just give it a try and see how the PUBS like it.

Again reason why its not played much in pubs is because people keep leaving because the flags get capped so fast that unless you are one of the cappers you're not having any fun or unless your team also has a fast concer to get their flag just as quick and gets it back to their your base giving time to set up a defense.


And while they might not be perfect pros like GenghisTron seems to imply about himself, the people I play with are regular players that work well with each other and communicate and thats on a pub. But none of that matters if we can't get to the flag room before the scout on the other team can.

[Iggy]

I have a solution.

O classes spawn in one place, and have a 30 second countdown before doors open, while D classes spawn in another place(closer to the FR) and may exit immediately.

Will it stop an O run from D classes? No... but they aren't as fast about it either.

[GenghisTron]

The only person lying is you. It doesn't matter how good the scout is, if you can't get from the top respawn to the flagroom before a scout can go ALL THE WAY ACROSS A HUGE MAP, maybe this game is not for you.

[Gwarsbane]

Originally Posted by Iggy

I have a solution.

O classes spawn in one place, and have a 30 second countdown before doors open, while D classes spawn in another place(closer to the FR) and may exit immediately.

Will it stop an O run from D classes? No... but they aren't as fast about it either.

Thats one of the suggestions I made just without the 30 second countdown. I think 10 to 15 seconds should be more then long enough.

Basically just need to give the defense time to even start to setup before O comes.

Originally Posted by GenghisTron

The only person lying is you. It doesn't matter how good the scout is, if you can't get from the top respawn to the flagroom before a scout can go ALL THE WAY ACROSS A HUGE MAP, maybe this game is not for you.

Wow you totally ignore facts don't you?

Nubs, who is a good scout says he can make it there in 10 seconds or less.

Thats coming from the TOP SPAWN were everyone else is.

The scout is the fastest class and can go at least 3 to 4 times faster then an engi with a conc and seeing as how wide open space is very close to that spawn where EVERYONE spawns he just steps out the door, primes a conc and soon as its ready hes out in the open ready to go. By this time the engi is either just at or hasn't hit the door for the flag area and the scout if hes half decent is already coming down the spawn area hall or flying through the little tunnel under the spawn area or the tunnel via the back way (little longer but usually clear of people).

[GenghisTron]

It should take you no more than 4-5 seconds from top spawn to the flagroom (unless you get cock blocked at the spawn exit doors), and that leaves enough time to get a Level 1 SG up.

Sorry, your hypothetical situation just doesn't work. It doesn't take 10 seconds to get to the flag room and get an SG up, and moreover, you shouldn't be alone in doing so. If you're alone, you're going to lose no matter what, the flagrun flagroom is huge and one person cannot defend it alone.

As was pointed out in the last thread, coming up on over a year ago, your hypothetical situation does not follow.