FF_Well - ideas and suggestions - Page 4

o_skanky butterpuss · 12-10-2005, 04:26 AM

dont change anything, i thought this was tf:source. if you make changes in maps, then its not tf:source. just like there were no changes in the maps of dod:source.

o_afx · 12-10-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

dont change anything, i thought this was tf:source. if you make changes in maps, then its not tf:source. just like there were no changes in the maps of dod:source.

Theres nothing wrong with changing something that's fundamentally flawed, Its not like hes putting a giant dancing monkey in the midfield.....although knowing eat thats something of a possibility :P

o_nezumi · 12-10-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

dont change anything, i thought this was tf:source.

Where do people keep getting this idea?

Well is my favorite map and I still think it could use a change or two. I like the idea of making the middle building a bit more spatious.

Circuitous · 12-10-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

dont change anything, i thought this was tf:source. if you make changes in maps, then its not tf:source. just like there were no changes in the maps of dod:source.

If the last sentence doesn't give it away as sarcasm, what does?

o_skanky butterpuss · 12-10-2005, 11:21 PM

i knew i could count on circ, if no one else, to get the joke

kids these days

o_afx · 12-11-2005, 12:16 PM

Alas having never played dod i guess i missed out on your scathing sarcasm.

o_nezumi · 12-11-2005, 12:57 PM

Uh, ditto.

My point is still valid though. How many chumps a day come in here and say that seriously?

o_skanky butterpuss · 12-11-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afx

Alas having never played dod i guess i missed out on your scathing sarcasm.

i was under the impression that everyone has played dod...

**mervaka** · 12-11-2005, 10:24 PM

no. i haven't either

o_vorm · 12-12-2005, 01:54 PM

I like the idea of a split water entrance into the enemy base but I think into the FR may make it more att friendly. To balance it out, maybe you could have the second entrance coming out under the ramps in the ramp room?

Also maybe a kink(?) in the main water tunnel entrance so that if the def has a fatty guarding that entrance, he can't report about att coming in via the second suggested water exit.

Whadyathink?

V.

Thanks SoG for the leet grafx

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o_sobe green · 12-12-2005, 08:20 PM

As long as that middle buliding thing is not too tall for a Pyro to IC jump without using a grenade I'll still be happy.

o_sopis · 12-14-2005, 05:17 PM

Just do the main entrance (FD - RR) bigger and reduce the huge FR

o_leptest · 12-14-2005, 11:15 PM

i am so confused with all these FD's and FR's and RR's. can someone please exlpain.

i am very interested in what everyone has to say about changes to this map, regarding gameplay. but i really can't understand what half of you are trying to explain.

sorry if this is a burden.

leptest

o_darksoul · 12-14-2005, 11:19 PM

front door
flag room
ramp room

o_leptest · 12-14-2005, 11:20 PM

cheers.

so ramp room. would be... the room with the walkways with the oval center. (access to sniper area, and flag room) ?

or is that the "middle room"

o_darksoul · 12-14-2005, 11:22 PM

yup

o_zsleek7 · 12-15-2005, 12:52 AM

Heres my two ideas, both physics related

Make some objects that the offense can push through the water to defend themselves from hw fire. Maybe only make a few objects so part of the game between the heavy and the o is more strategy oriented.

Or you could make the initial tunnel be a downslope so a demo could use his already physically enhanced detpack to flush out the hw.

PHISH · 12-15-2005, 01:34 AM

The spawns should probably be moved backwards or adjusted in some manner, pretty much every match you are going to find dual fd soldiers right next to the spawns.
If you out dm a fd soldier they will spawn *right* there, often back in position before a nade from their dead body even goes off. While this requires more strategy to get by fd defenders on the offenses' part (ie pure movement, just try to knock defenders out of way etc), it is also at the expense of very little skill needed on the FD defenders part. There probably needs to be some tweaking between the interplay of the fd entrance and the respawns.

There will still be some demand for a straight classic port just because it has a very specific gameplay that people have come to enjoy over the years, but for fortress forever I think its important to improve the map by requiring more skill from defenders in certain positions, while perhaps giving a nod to the defense in another area of the map (for example slight changes to the attic/ tighten up the flag room a tad) to compensate for a more open fd area. This should have the effect of improving pub play on the map.

Some will want to keep the map how it was, but any new nuances you can create will just give old players a new challenge and thats what ultimately keeps the game fun.

Jiggles · 12-15-2005, 02:23 AM

I have to agree that the Well spawns being right next to the place you have to go on O leads to some major frustrations for me on this map. First, you're wading past the enemy O to get out of your spawn / front door, then you have to do the same on the enemy side.

I understand that the proximity of the spawns help balance the fact that the Well flag room is very hard to defend, but it's still very annoying.

Merely increasing the hall length (between the spawns and RR) by a few feet could make a big difference (a second or 2)

I probably wouldn't make the water an easier entrance and do this, but, it's up to eat anyway

o_nezumi · 12-15-2005, 02:32 AM

I'd be happy to see the spawns moved back a ways too.

12-10-2005, 04:26 AM	#61
o_skanky butterpuss Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tampon, FL Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	dont change anything, i thought this was tf:source. if you make changes in maps, then its not tf:source. just like there were no changes in the maps of dod:source.

12-10-2005, 11:21 PM	#65
o_skanky butterpuss Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tampon, FL Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i knew i could count on circ, if no one else, to get the joke kids these days

12-11-2005, 12:16 PM	#66
o_afx Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Walsall,UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Alas having never played dod i guess i missed out on your scathing sarcasm.

12-11-2005, 12:57 PM	#67
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Uh, ditto. My point is still valid though. How many chumps a day come in here and say that seriously?

12-11-2005, 10:24 PM	#69
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	no. i haven't either

12-12-2005, 01:54 PM	#70
o_vorm Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: E. Yorks - UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I like the idea of a split water entrance into the enemy base but I think into the FR may make it more att friendly. To balance it out, maybe you could have the second entrance coming out under the ramps in the ramp room? Also maybe a kink(?) in the main water tunnel entrance so that if the def has a fatty guarding that entrance, he can't report about att coming in via the second suggested water exit. Whadyathink? V. Thanks SoG for the leet grafx ___________________________________ \| \| _________________________________ \| \| ............................. \| \|_ ........................... \|_ \|.......................... _\| \| ........................._____ \| _ \|.........................\| ^^^ \| \| \| ...........................\| ^^^ \| \| \|______________\| ^^^ \| \| -----------------------> ^^^ \| \| ____________________\| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \|_________ \| ____________

12-12-2005, 08:20 PM	#71
o_sobe green Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	As long as that middle buliding thing is not too tall for a Pyro to IC jump without using a grenade I'll still be happy.

12-14-2005, 05:17 PM	#72
o_sopis Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Just do the main entrance (FD - RR) bigger and reduce the huge FR

12-14-2005, 11:15 PM	#73
o_leptest Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i am so confused with all these FD's and FR's and RR's. can someone please exlpain. i am very interested in what everyone has to say about changes to this map, regarding gameplay. but i really can't understand what half of you are trying to explain. sorry if this is a burden. leptest

12-14-2005, 11:19 PM	#74
o_darksoul Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kidderminster, uk Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	front door flag room ramp room

12-14-2005, 11:20 PM	#75
o_leptest Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	cheers. so ramp room. would be... the room with the walkways with the oval center. (access to sniper area, and flag room) ? or is that the "middle room"

12-14-2005, 11:22 PM	#76
o_darksoul Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kidderminster, uk Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	yup

12-15-2005, 12:52 AM	#77
o_zsleek7 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Modesto, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Heres my two ideas, both physics related Make some objects that the offense can push through the water to defend themselves from hw fire. Maybe only make a few objects so part of the game between the heavy and the o is more strategy oriented. Or you could make the initial tunnel be a downslope so a demo could use his already physically enhanced detpack to flush out the hw.

12-15-2005, 01:34 AM	#78
PHISH Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: cow college Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	The spawns should probably be moved backwards or adjusted in some manner, pretty much every match you are going to find dual fd soldiers right next to the spawns. If you out dm a fd soldier they will spawn right there, often back in position before a nade from their dead body even goes off. While this requires more strategy to get by fd defenders on the offenses' part (ie pure movement, just try to knock defenders out of way etc), it is also at the expense of very little skill needed on the FD defenders part. There probably needs to be some tweaking between the interplay of the fd entrance and the respawns. There will still be some demand for a straight classic port just because it has a very specific gameplay that people have come to enjoy over the years, but for fortress forever I think its important to improve the map by requiring more skill from defenders in certain positions, while perhaps giving a nod to the defense in another area of the map (for example slight changes to the attic/ tighten up the flag room a tad) to compensate for a more open fd area. This should have the effect of improving pub play on the map. Some will want to keep the map how it was, but any new nuances you can create will just give old players a new challenge and thats what ultimately keeps the game fun.

12-15-2005, 02:23 AM	#79
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I have to agree that the Well spawns being right next to the place you have to go on O leads to some major frustrations for me on this map. First, you're wading past the enemy O to get out of your spawn / front door, then you have to do the same on the enemy side. I understand that the proximity of the spawns help balance the fact that the Well flag room is very hard to defend, but it's still very annoying. Merely increasing the hall length (between the spawns and RR) by a few feet could make a big difference (a second or 2) I probably wouldn't make the water an easier entrance and do this, but, it's up to eat anyway

12-15-2005, 02:32 AM	#80
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'd be happy to see the spawns moved back a ways too.

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