American Citizen killed. so what who cares?

[o_ihmhi]

I just think back in the day it used to be more like "300 American soldiers died today fighting the Nazis" and now it is more like 3 or 4. So rather than talk about how many died, they try to get more sensationalism by analyzing the personal aspect of each and every soldier who dies.

If like 12 die in a helicopter crash or somethin' you can bet it will get at least 1/3 of the hour of 60 Minutes.

In Vietnam, 12 dying in a helicopter crash would barely be worth 6 seconds. =/

[o_gunslinger]

So you are comparing "regime-change" in Iraq with WWII? n1

[o_uber]

Is it so foolish to assume at least some aspects of wars do not differ from time to time?

[o_nuk3m]

i just feel it would be more a reason to pull out of iraq because our men and women are dieing for a false cause. i feel it would be completely immature to cry about the war because some 'citizen' got killed.

some lady was quoted on CNN at the end of the guys program. "this has become too much, first bush says fight them there so we dont get hurt" or something like that.

[o_gunslinger]

Originally Posted by uBeR

Is it so foolish to assume at least some aspects of wars do not differ from time to time?

No, but it is foolish to ignore the fact that "300 dying fighting the nazis" is comparable to "12 die fighting the dissident iraqis" if taking in to account total loss of life comparable to amount of fighting going on and number of troops involved.

It's like how if a little girl was murdered by a stranger, it would be in the news before 5 soldiers getting killed fighting in a war. That's why it's called "news" and not "same shit different day".

[o_ihmhi]

Originally Posted by Gunslinger

No, but it is foolish to ignore the fact that "300 dying fighting the nazis" is comparable to "12 die fighting the dissident iraqis" if taking in to account total loss of life comparable to amount of fighting going on and number of troops involved.

By no means am I saying that one man's life is worth more than another in this respect. I am just saying that because there are less people dying the media is taking a different perspective on the way they present their reporting of casualties. They move from a focus on numbers to a focus on individuals. Sort of a quantity versus quality argument.

Personally, when people bitch about the war we have going on right now, I like to remind them of all of the people we lost in Vietnam and World War II. I have not read up on those wars lately but we lost something like 60,000 men in 'nam and 450,000ish in WW2, not counting the civilian and enemy casualties. There were probably some days in WW2 where 3,000 soldiers died in one day.

[o_gunslinger]

And at the Somme something like 30k died in one day. The world moves on and currently, for the Western world, Iraq and to a lesser extent Afghanistan (sp?) are the main conflict theatre's and are much smaller than WW2 (and Nam from a States POV).

Still, that's progress for you.

[o_nuk3m]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

Personally, when people bitch about the war we have going on right now, I like to remind them of all of the people we lost in Vietnam and World War II. I have not read up on those wars lately but we lost something like 60,000 men in 'nam and 450,000ish in WW2, not counting the civilian and enemy casualties. There were probably some days in WW2 where 3,000 soldiers died in one day.

but where is the just cause in iraq? vietnam was the same story we shouldnt have been there. as well as the korean war. fuckin politics man...

WW2 the axis alliance was a threat to the united states, in these other wars there was nothing to threat besides communism. which i do not see why people refer to communism as an evil government, as it is the government we should fear not the system of government.

[o_|404|innoc-tpf-]

Originally Posted by Nuk3m

but where is the just cause in iraq? vietnam was the same story we shouldnt have been there. as well as the korean war. fuckin politics man...

WW2 the axis alliance was a threat to the united states, in these other wars there was nothing to threat besides communism. which i do not see why people refer to communism as an evil government, as it is the government we should fear not the system of government.

Are you saying there was no threat because you're well informed on the subject or are you asking someone to explain those events?

[o_uber]

[Response to Nuk3m's post...]

Hmm, it might just be me and my lack of any significant intellect or knowledge on history, but what really was the large threat creating WWII on the USA? Nazism? Well then, so would be communism. The injustice of Nazism? Well there's injustice in the other regimes of governments that we have fought thereafter. The threat to out allies and precious sources or international trading or assets from those countries? Same goes for our other wars.

The specifics all differ, yes. These differences are used by some to create severity, but in my view there are the macro aspects that share commonality.

[o_backstaber]

Originally Posted by Nuk3m

but where is the just cause in iraq? vietnam was the same story we shouldnt have been there. as well as the korean war. fuckin politics man...

I can understand your dislike of the Vietnam War, but your ignorance of the Korean War pisses me off. My grandparents are alive today because the US and the UN went in and prevented the communists from taking over the South. That had NOTHING to fucking do with politics! It had to do with the defense of a peoples sovereignty and from wholesale slaughter by their neighboring regime to the North.

[o_|404|innoc-tpf-]

Originally Posted by Backstaber

I can understand your dislike of the Vietnam War, but your ignorance of the Korean War pisses me off. My grandparents are alive today because the US and the UN went in and prevented the communists from taking over the South. That had NOTHING to fucking do with politics! It had to do with the defense of a peoples sovereignty and from wholesale slaughter by their neighboring regime to the North.

I would like to point out that NK was not alone in their action. They were directly and indirectly aided bu China. China's direct involvement was, by and large, (and arguably) related to US commitment to the conflict but they were involved.

[o_nuk3m]

Originally Posted by Backstaber

I can understand your dislike of the Vietnam War, but your ignorance of the Korean War pisses me off. My grandparents are alive today because the US and the UN went in and prevented the communists from taking over the South. That had NOTHING to fucking do with politics! It had to do with the defense of a peoples sovereignty and from wholesale slaughter by their neighboring regime to the North.

sorry for you taking defense, but what i am trying to point out by my statement is the US puts our nose where it doesnt belong, its like were the moderators of an IRC chatroom and because of this power we go in other chatrooms, and get involoved in other peoples problems.. think of it in those terms,

[o_nuk3m]

Originally Posted by uBeR

[Response to Nuk3m's post...]

Hmm, it might just be me and my lack of any significant intellect or knowledge on history, but what really was the large threat creating WWII on the USA? Nazism? Well then, so would be communism. The injustice of Nazism? Well there's injustice in the other regimes of governments that we have fought thereafter. The threat to out allies and precious sources or international trading or assets from those countries? Same goes for our other wars.

The specifics all differ, yes. These differences are used by some to create severity, but in my view there are the macro aspects that share commonality.

in regards to how the US was threatened, well... do i really have to point out the world domination dream and the pure race? Mein Kamf talks about adolfs life of bullshit and talks about how he wants total governance over europe. and his one race theory.

what does someone with power do? want more power. in this case more governance. germany and japan. two sides of the world but yet the same goal. think of what is going on when you are trapping a bug with your hands, japs attack from the west, germans from the east. got it now?

[o_uber]

Well do I really have to point out the same type of control yearned by the extremist and Islamofacists of the Middle East? Is one type of ideology and typology based on dominance and complete lack of regard for freedom and justice, with structural human rights violations any better or worse than another?

[o_nuk3m]

no you dont because it is not the same thing, the extremeists are not holding true military power. nor are in appointed positions of power. they just are the iraqi minute men of the day. at least that is how they view themselves.

we fought for our country through rebellion against the british back long ago, how is it any different not to mention our means for war was doctrined by a superfiscal religion (christianity).

lets keep in mind that no one in their head calls themselves evil but 90% of the people feel they are doing the right thing for their country.

[o_geokill----->]

Respond to your first post.

If we show U.S. soldiers dieing then we get people that get piss off, that's why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR6JgK-2dPo

Listen around 2:40.

[o_nuk3m]

i just finished watching it,

people turning a blind eye to the war are just not true. when you deny the truth of death. you are giving yourself an excuse for more troops to die because you will not believe the murder and killing going on so you give the go ahead and make it ok to keep fighting.

kind of like

there is no such thing as death so keep fighting in iraq because none of our military will get killed.

[o_ekim]

Originally Posted by uBeR

Hmm, it might just be me and my lack of any significant intellect or knowledge on history, but what really was the large threat creating WWII on the USA?

Japan opened hostilities at Pearl Harbour. Germany and Italy declared war four days later.

Nazism? Well then, so would be communism. The injustice of Nazism? Well there's injustice in the other regimes of governments that we have fought thereafter. The threat to out allies and precious sources or international trading or assets from those countries?

No, none of these. The United States did not choose to enter the second world war. That is, to me, the most obvious difference between WWii and later so-called "interventionst" conflicts.