American Citizen killed. so what who cares?

[o_uber]

Originally Posted by Jinx

WOUNDED SOLDIERS

Because our troop armor and our medical treatment is much better than it was in, say, Vietnam, a lot of our guys survive IEDs etc. that might have killed them 30 years ago. But they survive with brain damage, lost limbs, mutilated faces and bodies...

Last I heard we were looking at 20,000+ wounded. And that's just physical trauma. Many are also coming back with serious psychological problems- post-traumatic stress, etc. Then these people come home, and their injuries become something that effects not only them, but their family, friends, etc. The cost of this war in "people" is far more than just the "death count" would suggest.

Oh, and while you're on your high horse- what about all the Iraqi civilians who have been killed? The modest estimate (ie the Bush admin's) is around 35,000. More realist estimates are well over 50,000. We aren't talking about insurgents, or Iraqi soldiers killed in the invasion, this is solely the civilian death count. This is something you rarely hear mentioned in the news at all. That's pretty shameful, in my opinion. The American public needs to be aware of the costs of war.

I'm guessing it's a lot harder to report on that.

[o_nuk3m]

i just hate the our US media does things these days... if it were up to me which it will never be. i would cut out the idiot events like terry schiavo. because the fact of the matter is no one cares about those things its just cool to see on tv.

[o_uber]

You're sadly, sadly mistaken.

[o_()))crayola))_>]

Originally Posted by darksoul

dig dig dig

He's around bedrock now, not much farther to go.

[o_duffmanhb]

what most people fail to understand, when America says that an 'american citizent' dies in iraq, hes not just some guy on vacation. The govt independently contracts soldiers through other firms so they can 'break laws' ect with out the govt getting introuble. These civilinians that are dying are actually contracted to fight in iraq through a private company.

Actually soldiers get really mad because these guys get paid 3x the amount then them. They do the same exact things.

[o_jinx]

Originally Posted by DuffmanHB

Actually soldiers get really mad because these guys get paid 3x the amount then them. They do the same exact things.

Yeah, except they aren't supervised and are probably doing far more nasty, inhumane stuff. Hear about the guy recently who was driving around looking for a lone Iraq who was an easy target because "he wanted to kill someone before he went home"?

[o_rifle]

I think nuk3m Is right. The one thing is we cant put all the soldiers who die on/in the news. One thing they have is a weekly or monthly list of soldiers that died. It could List what thier part in the war was or not and family gets to choice if they want them in the list.

[o_player]

Here you go Nuk3m, you have probably already seen this on the news, though: link1, link2, link3, and link4

And yes, we all know that the media is shit and is the cause of civil decline.

Originally Posted by STA_Tiger

Nuk3m for the ignorance!

STA_Tiger for the ignorance, too!

[o_jinx]

Originally Posted by Player

And yes, we all know that the media is shit and is the cause of civil decline.

I think you've gotten them mixed up with the Bush Administration.

[o_backstaber]

Originally Posted by Jinx

I think you've gotten them mixed up with the Bush Administration.

No, I think he hit the nail on the head there.

[o_yomamashouse]

In a way you are both right, they are both equally shitty.

[o_backstaber]

Originally Posted by YoMamasHouse

In a way you are both right, they are both equally shitty.

I digress.

[o_yomamashouse]

I digress.

You digress from what? I thought it was a fairly on topic remark.

[o_()))crayola))_>]

Good Job Backstaber, there shall be no digressing in this thread!

[o_jinx]

Originally Posted by YoMamasHouse

In a way you are both right, they are both equally shitty.

I agree. The press has done a terrible job of taking the Bush Administration to task for their continued lying and overall incompetence. Even if you thought the war in Iraq was justified, they have horribly mis-managed it and failed utterly- if we are to judge them by their own standards, the expectations they gave the American people at the beginning of the war.

Sorry, but anyone who's still defending the President at this point is pretty much clueless.

[o_yomamashouse]

Ya it is definitely safe to say that their government was a horrendous failure. It is sad that we don't have the great and revolutionary politicians we had back in the early days of the US and 100 years later Canada.

[o_backstaber]

Sorry, got my words mixed up for a second. I meant to say I disagree.

[o_the russian]

Originally Posted by YoMamasHouse

Ya it is definitely safe to say that their government was a horrendous failure. It is sad that we don't have the great and revolutionary politicians we had back in the early days of the US and 100 years later Canada.

There exists no leader which can unite them when their differences are based in 'faith' and not 'fact'. When the two blend its even uglier, and they have, both sides have murdered thousands of eachother and the hate that was once 'faith' is now 'fact'. And to be clear, in my meaning of 'faith' I dont just mean suni vs. shia... I mean in the faith that many Iraqis/muslims have in US intervention being inherently bad, and muslim intervention being inherently good, no matter the results.

No-one will ever be able to unite the current generation of Iraqis, all hope lies in their offspring. Furthermore, there needs to be a wholesale liquidaition of religion in that region of the world and that will take many decades. Its like the wars between the Catholics and Protestants, many informal, but very costly in lives. The Spanish Inquisition, the Armenian Christian Holocaust, the Jewish Holocaust, the Kurd gassing in Iraq, the shia purges, the suni purges, the Hindu masacres, and the modern state of terrorism are all decisions based in 'faith' that one side deserved to be destroyed for nothing more than being different, as different is only acceptable to them as anti-them (the whole process is called 'othering'). It could however be argued that many of those eventualy grew into factual conflicts resulting from relentless mutual vengeance in addition to faith. All I can say is that I have hope that eventualy the world will realise that church doesnt mix with anything... not just state.

[o_yomamashouse]

Originally Posted by Backstaber

Sorry, got my words mixed up for a second. I meant to say I disagree.

Could you elaborate then, there is not a whole lot that can be done with just "I disagree".

[o_uber]

It's a silly mistake to represent Bush's presidency as his Global War on Terror, albeit a large portion.