The Arena

[Majesty]

Originally Posted by Private_Joker

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A JEW AND A PIZZA A PIZZA DOESNT SCREAM WHEN YOU PUT IT IN THE OVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ahhhhhh...
Feels good, man.

-Joker

That's not cool man. My grandfather died in a concentration camp. He fell out of a guard tower.

[JackBauer]

Originally Posted by Majesty

Haha thanks Iggy.


Oh shit, almost missed your post Jack. You're gonna put me in chains huh? Fag.

we all know you like it big boy. don't even need to mention the pink handcuffs!

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Also, those rules are bullshit, except the pedo one. If it's supposed to be a no-censorship all-bullshit goes sub-forum, the racism and server-bashing rules need to go.

I'll tell you the same thing I just PM'd in a reply to Majesty:

Server bashing makes the whole community look bad. I moved this thread to D&A because it was either that, or drop the hammer on people. Given the initial content(and intent) of the thread, I just moved it. Have a ball, but understand this much: Any ILLEGAL activity will result in consequences(kiddy-porn, etc...). If you want to flame each other here... go for it. As long as it doesn't spill into the rest of the forums, I'm fine with it(Note: I do not speak for any other admins).

[GenghisTron]

Originally Posted by Iggy

So... yes, we did crack down on the flaming. I've noticed that no infractions have been needed since. Everyone has gotten control of themselves, and that makes me happy. I don't mind when people disagree, that's fine.... as long as it stays civil(everywhere but D&A). That's all we ask.

The only reason people seem to have 'gotten control of themselves' is because you instill fear. Legitimate thoughts and concerns, and good posts are ultimately censored because of a few words, or a few phrases which don't meet your subjective standards. I realize I am free to leave, and you guys can and do set the rules, but I'm talking about principle. By effectively censoring people, you haven't made them good, or better, you have made them afraid to actually be themselves.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Server bashing makes the whole community look bad.

No it doesn't, you guys are just religious in your devotion to defend OT from any and all criticism that they rightly deserve. OT is a scourge, and the only reason it's still popular is because it's a borderline cult and OT members and devotees sit in the server all goddamn day, so when people get home they go to OT because it has people in it.

Personally, I think the community should air out and any all problems it has. If the community has a problem with OT, OT should either answer for it, or deal with it. Instead of locking threads and silencing dissent (and thus brushing legit criticisms under the carpet), all you've done is shake the foundation of trust of regular members of the community.

OT thinks it's fucking immune to any and all criticism, and they put on this dumb fucking facade like they're some innocent little child sitting in the corner, when to anyone with a functioning brain realizes that's not the case.

Scuzzy is a scumbag, and so are his henchmen, and it's sad that you and others defend them like they were your own children. Give me a break. It's nauseating. Everyone hates OT except the people who are so self-absorbed that they don't give a fuck about the community, and would rather play in OT just because it's somewhere to play. I have a better idea, how about we get servers going that have people playing, and aren't run by fucking fascists? You get the best of both worlds. Anyways, like I was saying, pretty much everyone, without exception (save for those that aren't banned) hate OT, but most people aren't willing to voice their opinion, because they realize how petty the whole goddamn situation is.

I was actually banned from OT because I was typing out the name of a person in the server (his name was like Poosniffer or something) and I accidentally mistyped his name as Poosnigger or something, and I was immediately autobanned. I didn't even feel like appealing my ban, because it would be clear that it was entirely accidental, I just didn't care that much to go through the trials and tribulations of having to bow down and ask Lord Scuzzy to allow me to kiss his fucking ring and beg for forgiveness from the OT gods. It's a fucking video game, and everything about OT wreaks submission and conformity. The reason they don't want swearing in this server (Or at least that's what they claim, meanwhile the few times I was in the server, OT devotees were regularly cursing on the mic, without an ounce of compunction) is because they are thinning the herd so to speak, they want to mold a perfect little community of hardcore, spineless, conformists. Scuzzy doesn't actually take offense to naughty words, I heard stories from people in TALOS about Scuzzy telling racist jokes in their private vent. Nah, OT aren't some moral purists, they're simply trying to create a hyper-structured, top-down community where any and all individualism is crushed, and conformity and submission are the end objective. Reading Scuzzy's posts, analyzing his tactics and his whole system he has setup, wreaks of a dude on a HARDCORE fucking powertrip. Posting people's personal information on their public banlog, the entire system is practically automated, the rules are ridiculous, etc.

[GenghisTron]

Oh, and fuck the police.

[Bridget]

PREACH DAT TRUTH

[GeoKill----->]

Majesty gave up on FF way to quick...

[BinaryLife]

If your posts were all that well thought out they wouldn't be getting censored. You say it's over a few words but how much thought goes into changing those words into equally emotional synonyms? I personally have no problem with profanity, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

As far OT goes the posts don't get locked because people don't like them. They get locked because a conclusion is never reached. You have to acknowledge that just as many people disagree with you as people who agree with you on that topic. So arguments and debates on the subject prove to be unproductive. You will never change your perception of OT. Nor will I. I happen to like them and think they're a great server and a great place to play when I do play these days. But that's as far as it can really ever go, productively.

But in an effort not to derail the thread; You're a punk kid and I hate you. You infantile...stupid.

[Majesty]

Originally Posted by GeoKill----->

Majesty gave up on FF way to quick...

Last I checked I still have a dev tag. Oh, and you spelled too wrong, dumbass.

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by Majesty

Last I checked I still have a dev tag. Oh, and you spelled too wrong, dumbass.

Hey, cunt box, THAT IS MY MEXICAN BITCH! Not yours, so back the fuck off or feel the jew rage.

Douche nozzle!

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by Majesty

The Arena

I’ve been thinking: This forum is based around a war game where we shoot missiles and attempt to kill each other. I’m not really surprised there are arguments nearly on a daily basis. Then I see conversations get moderated; people are warned/banned for a brilliantly written post because they attacked another person’s character. Our members are repressed. They’re soldiers thrown into suits and then when they behave like themselves we ban them. So here’s the compromise. Make a thread. Call it The Arena. No pedo shit. No racism (except jew jokes. Those are fine). By posting in the arena you are stepping into a ring intended for death: hence you subject yourself to verbal attacks and you know what you are getting yourself into. If you get caught fighting outside The Arena, or you attack someone who hasn’t posted in it, then your ass is banned for a period of time. Consider it forum mulching. It is amazing.

Rules:
1. No pedo shit
2. No racist slurs (except jew jokes)
3. No server bashing

As the Team Leader of the Jew Team, I can not allow Jew Jokes.

Then again, I am the only Jew in FF so, carry on.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by GenghisTron

The only reason people seem to have 'gotten control of themselves' is because you instill fear. Legitimate thoughts and concerns, and good posts are ultimately censored because of a few words, or a few phrases which don't meet your subjective standards. I realize I am free to leave, and you guys can and do set the rules, but I'm talking about principle. By effectively censoring people, you haven't made them good, or better, you have made them afraid to actually be themselves.

Isn't that was the "law" does? Instil "feat" of "consequences"? To be perfectly honest(which I try to always be); Many people on here have crossed the line and not gotten even a warning for it. Censorship isn't what is at issue here... I have absolutely NO problem with people stating their opinion. However, making others(especially people NEW to the Mod/community) feel that their opinion is somehow "wrong", or "bad", lacks basic respect for others. If you want to allow others to give their opinion, then treat them with a bit of respect. If you want to kill the Mod, then keep bashing new people, and making them feel unwelcome.

If you disagree with the direction the Mod is going, then feel free to state your reasons for disagreeing with it. Example: "The laser grenade isn't as effective as the nail grenade, because....(state your reason)." Opposesed to "OMFG! The Laser Nade is fucking retarded! WTF were you assbags thinking?!"

Which do you think will be taken more seriously?

No it doesn't, you guys are just religious in your devotion to defend OT from any and all criticism that they rightly deserve. OT is a scourge, and the only reason it's still popular is because it's a borderline cult and OT members and devotees sit in the server all goddamn day, so when people get home they go to OT because it has people in it.

Criticism is one thing, bashing is another. I have played on every occupied server FF has(and I've idled in some that aren't). From O-T, to Ze's Palace, and a couple I whose names I can't recall off of the top of my head. Given the lack of populated servers out there, I'm sure you can figure them out. I have had NO problems on any of them. Is O-T strict? Yes. But some players like it that way. They cater to people who don't want to be exposed to cheating/racism/swearing/etc. Does that mean Ze allows anarchy? No. They have rules, as well. Are they as strict as O-T? No. Basicly, is boils down to this: Can YOU(the player) abide by the rules? If you can, then play there. If you can't.... find somewhere that caters to YOUR style of play, and play there.

It's not fucking rocket science... Play where you enjoy playing, but don't pick fights with a server just because YOU don't like it's rules. If they are too strict/loose with their rules, don't play there. If enough people refuse to play there, it will eventually go down, due to lack of activity.

Case in point; Drippy's 2fort TFC server. It limits Bunnyhop, which causes some people to not play there. Yet it's one of the FEW servers that survives. Gas Chamber caters to a different player base. Which is wrong? Niether. They cater to different groups, and both servers are still popular. One allows respawn spam, the other doesn't. GC doesn't limit B-Hop...and it's popular for that, with some players. One has multiple maps, and one has only one. Both servers are popular.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

OT caters to certain players, while others are turned off to it's rules. Other servers cater to people who don't like OT, and that's fine. Play where you want, and don't worry about the places you don't want to play.

Personally, I think the community should air out and any all problems it has. If the community has a problem with OT, OT should either answer for it, or deal with it. Instead of locking threads and silencing dissent (and thus brushing legit criticisms under the carpet), all you've done is shake the foundation of trust of regular members of the community.

Yes, feel free to "air out any and all problems".... but what is wrong with doing it RESPECTFULLY?! Threads have been edited and/or locked, because people have been flaming their fellow users. Remember, we are here because we ENJOY this game, and (I hope) want to make it better. Saying "I disagree with (such and so's) rule against cussing" is the same as saying "I disagree with (such and so) server allowing respawn spam".

OT thinks it's fucking immune to any and all criticism, and they put on this dumb fucking facade like they're some innocent little child sitting in the corner, when to anyone with a functioning brain realizes that's not the case.

OT is no more immune from criticism than any other server. The problem is, that it always breaks down from criticism into flaming. See above for examples.

Scuzzy is a scumbag, and so are his henchmen, and it's sad that you and others defend them like they were your own children. Give me a break. It's nauseating. Everyone hates OT except the people who are so self-absorbed that they don't give a fuck about the community, and would rather play in OT just because it's somewhere to play. I have a better idea, how about we get servers going that have people playing, and aren't run by fucking fascists? You get the best of both worlds. Anyways, like I was saying, pretty much everyone, without exception (save for those that aren't banned) hate OT, but most people aren't willing to voice their opinion, because they realize how petty the whole goddamn situation is.

So far, the only people I've seen hate OT, are those who are banned from there. Coincidently, it's because they caused themselves to be banned from there. I play there, and I care about the community. Probably more than you do, because I am willing to do what is needed to protect those who are new to the community.

You call those who run OT fascists... but aren't you the fascist because you want to impose your values on their server? You know, the one they pay for? If you want a server under your rules, then why don't you pay for one?

Don't like my opinion? Fine. Don't play on my server.... oh, wait, I don't have one. Consider a server like a home(I'm going to pull an old BBS methodology here)... he who pays the bills makes the rules. Don't like the rules? Get your own. Would you cuss in my home if I told you not to? Would you bitch up a storm and call me a fascist if I threw you out of my home for disobeying my rules? Put the shoe on the other foot. Would you like being called a fascist for enforcing the rules in your home, where you pay the bills?

I was actually banned from OT because I was typing out the name of a person in the server (his name was like Poosniffer or something) and I accidentally mistyped his name as Poosnigger or something, and I was immediately autobanned.

Wait for it...

I didn't even feel like appealing my ban,

Wait... what did you say?

I didn't even feel like appealing my ban,

Oh... so you were wrong, but "didn't feel like appealing my ban" because you knew you made a mistake. Mistakes happen... sooooo....

I didn't even feel like appealing my ban, because it would be clear that it was entirely accidental,

You are aware that Scuzztools, you know, the software that autobans for shit like that, is, well, software? Artificial Intelligence isn't quite up to "knowing" what you meant. It doesn't have "Jedi senses" coded in.

Scuzzy has stated, quite clearly, that Scuzztools is there to "nip potential problems in the bud". What you are saying, is that you were too LAZY to correct a mistake. You were not banned by an admin who saw what you accidentally typed, you were banned by a program intended to stop abuse. YOU admit to being too lazy to state your case, and get the mistake corrected. And somehow that is OT's fault?! Wait.... let's see that again...

I didn't even feel like appealing my ban,

Ok........

I just didn't care that much to go through the trials and tribulations of having to bow down and ask Lord Scuzzy to allow me to kiss his fucking ring and beg for forgiveness from the OT gods. It's a fucking video game, and everything about OT wreaks submission and conformity. The reason they don't want swearing in this server (Or at least that's what they claim, meanwhile the few times I was in the server, OT devotees were regularly cursing on the mic, without an ounce of compunction) is because they are thinning the herd so to speak, they want to mold a perfect little community of hardcore, spineless, conformists. Scuzzy doesn't actually take offense to naughty words, I heard stories from people in TALOS about Scuzzy telling racist jokes in their private vent. Nah, OT aren't some moral purists, they're simply trying to create a hyper-structured, top-down community where any and all individualism is crushed, and conformity and submission are the end objective. Reading Scuzzy's posts, analyzing his tactics and his whole system he has setup, wreaks of a dude on a HARDCORE fucking powertrip. Posting people's personal information on their public banlog, the entire system is practically automated, the rules are ridiculous, etc.

I'm going to cuddle with my fiance'. I'll finish this tomorrow.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Isn't that was the "law" does? Instil "feat" of "consequences"? To be perfectly honest(which I try to always be); Many people on here have crossed the line and not gotten even a warning for it. Censorship isn't what is at issue here... I have absolutely NO problem with people stating their opinion. However, making others(especially people NEW to the Mod/community) feel that their opinion is somehow "wrong", or "bad", lacks basic respect for others. If you want to allow others to give their opinion, then treat them with a bit of respect. If you want to kill the Mod, then keep bashing new people, and making them feel unwelcome.

Assuming the fear-instilling ways of the law is acceptable. It's not. I would rather my followers respect my rules because they were respectful, instead of threatening force. Censoring my opinion because I say some bad words in addition to making my point is censorship, no matter what you say.

It's not my responsibility to ensure the feelings of others. If they take offense to what I say, that's their fucking problem. I made the point on other threads, where you ironically agreed with me. People are responsible for themselves; their reactions to words included. Offensiveness is subjective. What if someone says 'Don't call me a pickle, because that's offensive.' Are you going to enforce their subjective choice of offense if someone continues to call them a pickle? It's stupid. Just get the fuck over it.

Also, please shut the fuck up about the Old Timers and how it's so easy to find another server. No one denies that. It's just, the simple fact that such a family-friendly obsessively-controlling server exists in the server browser of a violent video game irks people, and they state their dislike of it. This dislike is censored, and the censorship of people's opinions just pisses them off more, and you then feel justified in abusing your administrative powers. None of this makes much sense to you because you have a very slim understanding of human nature, which makes you a piss-poor admin.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Yes, feel free to "air out any and all problems".... but what is wrong with doing it RESPECTFULLY?! Threads have been edited and/or locked, because people have been flaming their fellow users. Remember, we are here because we ENJOY this game, and (I hope) want to make it better. Saying "I disagree with (such and so's) rule against cussing" is the same as saying "I disagree with (such and so) server allowing respawn spam".

Originally Posted by Iggy

You call those who run OT fascists... but aren't you the fascist because you want to impose your values on their server? You know, the one they pay for? If you want a server under your rules, then why don't you pay for one?

No. I don't want my values imposed upon their server. I just want it to be known that I disapprove of their values, and so does the majority of Fortress-Forever players. They are the exception here, not those who hate them. I don't want them to be forced to change their values, but as long as they have those stupid values, I am going to be arguing against them. It's that fucking simple. I'm not going to be overtly nice or kiss their ass like you do.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Don't like my opinion? Fine. Don't play on my server.... oh, wait, I don't have one. Consider a server like a home(I'm going to pull an old BBS methodology here)... he who pays the bills makes the rules. Don't like the rules? Get your own. Would you cuss in my home if I told you not to? Would you bitch up a storm and call me a fascist if I threw you out of my home for disobeying my rules? Put the shoe on the other foot. Would you like being called a fascist for enforcing the rules in your home, where you pay the bills?

Again, no one denies the Old Timers their right to do with their server as they please as you deny their non-fans the ability to criticize it nonetheless by abusing your administrative powers (Because you're insecure, and it's a medium of fortifying your ego. This is confirmed with the sentence you used to finish your post.)

Originally Posted by Iggy

You are aware that Scuzztools, you know, the software that autobans for shit like that, is, well, software? Artificial Intelligence isn't quite up to "knowing" what you meant. It doesn't have "Jedi senses" coded in.

Exactly, so why did he think it was smart to use the tool to enforce a rule that so heavily depended upon context? I don't give a shit what you think, the word "nigger" is only offensive in context. If it weren't, then wouldn't you ban me for wrapping it in double quotes and using it herein? Fuck no, because I'm using it abstractly. It is intrinsically useless; a mess of vocalized phonemes or written characters. Yes, it is the Old Timer's fault. It always is.

[GenghisTron]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

If your posts were all that well thought out they wouldn't be getting censored. You say it's over a few words but how much thought goes into changing those words into equally emotional synonyms? I personally have no problem with profanity, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

If people are unable to digest the broader point of what I or others say because we interject our personalities into our writing, quite frankly, that's not my problem. Words only become a problem when they're used in the wrong context, saying a word does not automatically mean you believe something. I support gays 100%, but I still call my friends faggots and say things are gay, that's just how my environment impacted me. It all comes down to one, simple, truism. Being offended is a choice. If you can't take a few naughty words being tossed around because you have some archaic view on chivalry, well, that's your problem.

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

As far OT goes the posts don't get locked because people don't like them. They get locked because a conclusion is never reached. You have to acknowledge that just as many people disagree with you as people who agree with you on that topic. So arguments and debates on the subject prove to be unproductive. You will never change your perception of OT. Nor will I. I happen to like them and think they're a great server and a great place to play when I do play these days. But that's as far as it can really ever go, productively.

OT threads get locked down because some FF administrative members/devs are insistent on defending the OT cult. There's been discussions about other servers (sometimes in a negative light) that have never been locked down, but OT has a special place in some people's hearts who also have the power to lock and delete threads. Trying to say, 'oh, OT has a forum, go cry there', is a dumb response, I think people should take their issues up at the OT forum, but they should ALSO post them here, because this is the community hub for the broader community. In order to resolve an issue, you must first know it exists, and relegating OT discussions to a special category serves to just make things worse. If there's a problem in the community, be it an influential server, an admin abusing his power, or the dev team being despondent, or whatever, it rightly belongs on the community forums.

Again, I realize that there may be rules against this sort of stuff (cursing, discussing servers, etc.) but I'm arguing about principle (or lack thereof).

Originally Posted by Iggy

Isn't that was the "law" does? Instil "feat" of "consequences"?

The law is ostensibly about creating proper incentives to act in a social manner. Operate word being ostensibly. In reality, restricting the choices and individualism of people just makes things worse (which is why we're even having this discussion right this moment).

Originally Posted by Iggy

To be perfectly honest(which I try to always be); Many people on here have crossed the line and not gotten even a warning for it. Censorship isn't what is at issue here... I have absolutely NO problem with people stating their opinion. However, making others(especially people NEW to the Mod/community) feel that their opinion is somehow "wrong", or "bad", lacks basic respect for others. If you want to allow others to give their opinion, then treat them with a bit of respect. If you want to kill the Mod, then keep bashing new people, and making them feel unwelcome.

Who bashes new people? People almost exclusively bash the devs or OT, or people who say dumb shit, and new people are almost always treated with respect, because they're such a valuable commodity. Not sure what you're getting at here.

Originally Posted by Iggy

If you disagree with the direction the Mod is going, then feel free to state your reasons for disagreeing with it. Example: "The laser grenade isn't as effective as the nail grenade, because....(state your reason)." Opposesed to "OMFG! The Laser Nade is fucking retarded! WTF were you assbags thinking?!"

Again, you're coming out of left-field. I never mentioned anything about this game, I almost exclusively am talking about OT, and how you and others are religious in your devotion to defend them from the criticism they rightly deserve. I didn't bring up anything about FF, as a game.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Criticism is one thing, bashing is another.

If a server deserves to get bashed for being a shithole, then who are you to say that there's any difference between criticism and bashing? That's entirely subjective. There are servers out there run by genuine assholes, who deserve to be treated how they treat others. OT demands that anyone who play on their servers act like children--that is, they are not determinant of how they will act, instead, they demand that you conform to their rigid demands, or they put you in timeout, or expell you. Is it really any surprise when a server like OT basically treats people like children, and then people respond in the way they're treated? Some people who are banned by OT are legitimately manchildren who can't handle life, but most people are willing to be pragmatic about the situation.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Can YOU(the player) abide by the rules? If you can, then play there. If you can't.... find somewhere that caters to YOUR style of play, and play there.

It's not fucking rocket science... Play where you enjoy playing, but don't pick fights with a server just because YOU don't like it's rules. If they are too strict/loose with their rules, don't play there. If enough people refuse to play there, it will eventually go down, due to lack of activity.

Stop trying to change the subject. I already clearly said that my issue with OT is about PRINCIPLE. I fully well acknowledge their right to use their money and operate their own server how they wish, but that won't stop me from calling them a bunzh of Nazi's.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

What I see is that you a) didn't read my post very well, or b) have poor reading comprehension. I never said anything contrary to your off-topic diatribe you just went on, again, I'm talking about the principle of the subject. Do you see what I'm getting at here?

Originally Posted by Iggy

Yes, feel free to "air out any and all problems".... but what is wrong with doing it RESPECTFULLY?! Threads have been edited and/or locked, because people have been flaming their fellow users. Remember, we are here because we ENJOY this game, and (I hope) want to make it better. Saying "I disagree with (such and so's) rule against cussing" is the same as saying "I disagree with (such and so) server allowing respawn spam".

When OT treats people like children, they have no right to demand all of sudden that people treat them like adults. End of story. Scuzzy paraded around on these forums treating everyone like infants, and it was truly painful to watch. He nuked the entire D&A forum because people called him out for the scumbag he was. Scuzzy doesn't deserve respect, he must earn it first, and that apparently hasn't worked out too well.

(Once again you seem to have missed the fact that the case against OT is about principle)

Originally Posted by Iggy

OT is no more immune from criticism than any other server. The problem is, that it always breaks down from criticism into flaming. See above for examples.

Why is it that one server seems to get so much criticism which then devolves into flaming? Surely it's not a coincidence. Oh right, that same server that treats people like children... oh right, got it.

Originally Posted by Iggy

So far, the only people I've seen hate OT, are those who are banned from there. Coincidently, it's because they caused themselves to be banned from there. I play there, and I care about the community. Probably more than you do, because I am willing to do what is needed to protect those who are new to the community.

There you go with that strawman again. I don't even understand why you brought up that big, I never harmed anyone who is new to the community, and it honestly puzzles me why you brought that up.

And yes, people who are banned for trivial things at OT, are people who hate the server, because OT is unflinching in their (quite frankly) hypocritical policy on the use of empty words. I hate OT for more than just their rules. I hate OT because Scuzzy is a scumbag on numerous levels. Quite frankly, there are some people from OT (mins Gwarsbane) who post on these forums that I agree with, and are generally nice people, but everything OT and Scuzzy stands for, are things that, quite frankly, are evil.

Originally Posted by Iggy

You call those who run OT fascists... but aren't you the fascist because you want to impose your values on their server? You know, the one they pay for? If you want a server under your rules, then why don't you pay for one?

No, I'm not a fascist, because YET AGAIN, I'm talking about principle, and talking about principle doesn't mean I want OT to run their server how I see fit. I'm just disagreeing with how they chose to see things, and I feel there's a strong case for why they're wrong. Under your logic, it's fascist to tell people that the Earth is objectively not flat, and because I'm trying to tell them the truth (and make them see things my way) I'm a fascist.

Nope. Not a fascist, I just have principles.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Oh... so you were wrong, but "didn't feel like appealing my ban" because you knew you made a mistake. Mistakes happen... sooooo....

Yea, I made a mistake. I accidentally hit a key that's right next to the key I intended to hit. What are you getting at? Oh right, you don't really have a point, you just are so religious in your devotion to OT that you have this automatic instinct to attack anyone who attacks OT.

Originally Posted by Iggy

You are aware that Scuzztools, you know, the software that autobans for shit like that, is, well, software? Artificial Intelligence isn't quite up to "knowing" what you meant. It doesn't have "Jedi senses" coded in.

Did I ever say anything like that? I have no issue with the fact that ScuzzTools are automatic, I fully well realize WHAT happened and WHY, you have no need to turn this into some narrative, which you then use against me. I'm not saying that Scuzzy should be forced to hand-review every single ban. Stop looking so deep into my posts to try and find something to attack me with. You're trying too hard, Iggy.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Scuzzy has stated, quite clearly, that Scuzztools is there to "nip potential problems in the bud". What you are saying, is that you were too LAZY to correct a mistake. You were not banned by an admin who saw what you accidentally typed, you were banned by a program intended to stop abuse. YOU admit to being too lazy to state your case, and get the mistake corrected. And somehow that is OT's fault?! Wait.... let's see that again...

This is just facepalm. I never took up issue with ScuzzTools because it was automated, again, stop trying to stir up arguments where there are none. I know you're desperate to defend the Motherland from any and all criticism, but this shit doesn't even make sense.

And no, I wasn't too lazy to appeal my ban. I honestly did not give two shits. I played MAYBE a total of 2 hours out of hundreds in the OT server, and only because sometimes it was the only server with people. I hated it, they played pretty much the same map every time, and just playing in the server was annoying. I'm glad that you tried to psychically extract my motivations for not appealing my ban, but you kind of failed, seeing as I already told you why I didn't appeal my ban. It's because I didn't want to submit to Scuzzy, which is what Scuzzy demands of his peers. As I pointed out, everything about Scuzzy and OT is about submission and his personal domination over everything. His tenure on this forum, is another testament to that fact. Scuzzy has a psychological drive to control people and make them conform, which is why OT's rules are so strict, and it really has nothing to do with being moral puritans. I have absolutely no desire to sit there and waste time registering on a forum belonging to people I despise, typing up a nice apology letter, and then waiting a few days for King Scuzzy to get around to appealing my ban. As you might have already guessed, I'm not too big of a fan of brown nosing, nor am I big on conformity, submission, etc., I am a hardcore individualist, and it was of no interest to me to play Scuzzies game to be allowed to play on a server that quite honestly, wasn't even any fun.

I wasn't too lazy. I didn't have a job, nor was I going to school at the time, so I had virtually 24 hours a day in my schedule to put towards appeasing Lord Scuzzy, but I chose not to, out of personal preference.

[BinaryLife]

Genghis you only actually addressed one of my points. You skipped over the entire possibility that the threads were being locked because the arguments go no where. You ignored it was even said and simply restated your conspiracy theory opinion. You're entitled to an opinion of course, but if you're going to run around stating something like that I'd like to see proof. Your statement is illogical, so in this case proof is going to have to bee a quote from someone not-sarcastically saying "I am and admin and I shut down this thread to protect OT from negative comments" otherwise your statement has no proof and it is entirely emotional. You can of course believe it, but I'm not going to.

You are in fact, by the way, responsible for people understanding you. If someone else can't grasp what you're saying, unless they don't speak your language, or have a handicap of some kind, it's your fault. When you say things like faggot over and over it really does make people think you hate gays. You can stop and explain. Or you could call your friends something else, lame would be a tamer word, but asshole, bitch, dick face, cock bag, are all great things to call your friends that insult them without offending any homosexuals in the area.

Why should you care? Well, I would first say, you should only care when in public. In the privacy of your own company and home, say whatever the hell you want. But when you are around other people the thing you are forgetting is that they have rights too. Yes you have the right to free speech. And yes you aren't doing anything against the law (in most states) by talking like an idiot child, but you are upsetting people. People who don't know you, don't know your friends and aren't really willing to hear you scream faggot over and over while they are trying to eat their lunches.

But their right not to hear you say it is just as important as your right to say it. So yes, there is a riddle here. How do we solve the problem if you want to say it, and they don't want to hear and neither wants to temporarily give up their rights for the sake of being polite? Well, here's an idea. Some restaurants would toss you out for talking like that, others wouldn't. Night clubs are the same way. So over time you'll start hanging at the places that don't throw you out, and they'll stay at the places that do, so they don't have to hear your nonsense, and you can scream that nonsense as loud as you want. I think that solves the problem quite nicely.

And ricey, I'm Jewish so that makes two of us. Passover is coming up, stock up on matza.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

You are in fact, by the way, responsible for people understanding you. If someone else can't grasp what you're saying, unless they don't speak your language, or have a handicap of some kind, it's your fault. When you say things like faggot over and over it really does make people think you hate gays. You can stop and explain. Or you could call your friends something else, lame would be a tamer word, but asshole, bitch, dick face, cock bag, are all great things to call your friends that insult them without offending any homosexuals in the area.

That's a false dichotomy. People have different ways of parsing information. I wouldn't call it a handicap if someone else's means is different than mine, which would make my attempt to educate them difficult. GT wouldn't have to stop and explain, nor do I (as a non-heterosexual) feel he should have to quit saying "faggot". Instead, the blame should be shifting onto those who can't mind their fucking business or make the fallacious mistake of presuming simply because GT uses a word, that he must be using it in the same context as a bunch of bigots. I mean, come the fuck on. Start pinning the necessity for responsibility on the right people.

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

Why should you care? Well, I would first say, you should only care when in public. In the privacy of your own company and home, say whatever the hell you want. But when you are around other people the thing you are forgetting is that they have rights too. Yes you have the right to free speech. And yes you aren't doing anything against the law (in most states) by talking like an idiot child, but you are upsetting people. People who don't know you, don't know your friends and aren't really willing to hear you scream faggot over and over while they are trying to eat their lunches.

Big fucking deal. That's the risk you take by going into public. I am not upsetting people. Unless I am behaving in an inappropriate way like jumping up and down in their face or running in circles around them, they are otherwise making the choice to be upset by my words. In that case, I don't give a shit.

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

But their right not to hear you say it is just as important as your right to say it. So yes, there is a riddle here. How do we solve the problem if you want to say it, and they don't want to hear and neither wants to temporarily give up their rights for the sake of being polite? Well, here's an idea. Some restaurants would toss you out for talking like that, others wouldn't. Night clubs are the same way. So over time you'll start hanging at the places that don't throw you out, and they'll stay at the places that do, so they don't have to hear your nonsense, and you can scream that nonsense as loud as you want. I think that solves the problem quite nicely.

The language problem isn't the problem with the Old Timers. It's the way they run their server. For the billionth time, we respect their right to run their server like a bunch of Fascists, but we don't agree it's right that they do run their server like a bunch of Fascists.

[Majesty]

Oh man.. two jews now? Lame.

Wait what?

Originally Posted by Bridget

nor do I (as a non-heterosexual)

NO WAY.

YouTube

YouTube

[Etzell]

YouTube

YouTube

[Majesty]

So that's 2 jews and 2 fags(not forgetting JackBauer). Anyone else want to come out of the closet while we're here?

[GenghisTron]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

Genghis you only actually addressed one of my points. You skipped over the entire possibility that the threads were being locked because the arguments go no where.

You didn't really say that, and besides that's a highly subjective thing to say. I've seen plenty of OT threads where someone will say OT sucks, Scuzzy will come in and rightly show how a person was wrong, and then people go on with their lives. I've also seen plenty of threads where legitimate debate was going on, and the thread was locked, how can you possibly say these threads go 'nowhere'. Unless your idea of 'going somewhere' means everyone graciously bends over and has a religious moment and realizes they were wrong and that King Scuzzy and the Royal OT Knights were right all along, then I'm having a hard time agreeing. If someone feels the need to bring something up, then clearly it's worth discussing. If someone is trolling, that's another story.

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

You ignored it was even said and simply restated your conspiracy theory opinion. You're entitled to an opinion of course, but if you're going to run around stating something like that I'd like to see proof. Your statement is illogical, so in this case proof is going to have to bee a quote from someone not-sarcastically saying "I am and admin and I shut down this thread to protect OT from negative comments" otherwise your statement has no proof and it is entirely emotional. You can of course believe it, but I'm not going to.

You are in fact, by the way, responsible for people understanding you. If someone else can't grasp what you're saying, unless they don't speak your language, or have a handicap of some kind, it's your fault. When you say things like faggot over and over it really does make people think you hate gays. You can stop and explain. Or you could call your friends something else, lame would be a tamer word, but asshole, bitch, dick face, cock bag, are all great things to call your friends that insult them without offending any homosexuals in the area.

Why should you care? Well, I would first say, you should only care when in public. In the privacy of your own company and home, say whatever the hell you want. But when you are around other people the thing you are forgetting is that they have rights too. Yes you have the right to free speech. And yes you aren't doing anything against the law (in most states) by talking like an idiot child, but you are upsetting people. People who don't know you, don't know your friends and aren't really willing to hear you scream faggot over and over while they are trying to eat their lunches.

But their right not to hear you say it is just as important as your right to say it. So yes, there is a riddle here. How do we solve the problem if you want to say it, and they don't want to hear and neither wants to temporarily give up their rights for the sake of being polite? Well, here's an idea. Some restaurants would toss you out for talking like that, others wouldn't. Night clubs are the same way. So over time you'll start hanging at the places that don't throw you out, and they'll stay at the places that do, so they don't have to hear your nonsense, and you can scream that nonsense as loud as you want. I think that solves the problem quite nicely.

And ricey, I'm Jewish so that makes two of us. Passover is coming up, stock up on matza.

blah blah blah, typical political correctness speech. My argument is very simple and very eloquent. Interpretations of words should be entirely, 100% based on context. You made a list of words to use as an alternative to 'faggot', all are words that have other definitions. Bitch can refer to a female dog, lame can refer to someone who is mentally handicapped, asshole is an asshole, fuck can be many things, but mainly the act of sex, etc. At the end of the day, your sentiments are based entirely on being politically correct, and you aren't really concerned about the efficacy and use of words in a rhetorical sense. I personally have a hard time accepting traditional cultural conventions, and prefer to point out the absurdity in them, which is why I have absolutely no compunction in calling people faggots or niggers. Every time someone conveys a message through speech or text, it is universally implied that you must judge it based on it's context. That is the nature of communication. People who propose we be politically correct want to throw out this idea of judgment based on context, and they want to attach special categories to certain words, and if you say them, no matter your context, it means you believe idea x or z, and that makes you a bigot. If I call my shoe a rubber band, you naturally realize that's ridiculous. If I call a white dude who I'm clearly friends with, a nigger, and we both laugh, am I racist? If we apply the same logic that we use in 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of our regular, everyday ways of communication, then no.

(PS: I didn't even really read this part of your post, 'cuz I basically knew what you going to go on about, so the context of my post might seem odd)