TF2 matches

[Dr.Uudge]

http://pwnage.tv/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=26

they've been broadcasting for about 3 hours now. pretty boring =\

[uBeR]

TF2 is too slow a game and lacks the variability seen in TFC.

That announcer is also very terrible.

[tu!]

tf2 is okay except:
-20 sec respawn delay is so boring
-let us atleast turn in midair like ff, i don't even need air acceleration really.
-and lastly i would like to have wall strafing back. now wall strafing actually slows you down like in cs lol...wtf...


i still love tfc the best though.

[Dr.Uudge]

grr, there was a source engine update last night and i couldn't get on ff until like 1.40 in the morning. so i ended up watching a fair amount of the broadcast. the announcer...was trying to announce things like it was hectic...which made me think "hectic? if you have enough time to cycle through the players to catch them doing what you're announcing(since they only had 1 camera angle), how is that hectic?"

[SoBe Green]

Originally Posted by tu!

tf2 is okay except:
-20 sec respawn delay is so boring
-let us atleast turn in midair like ff, i don't even need air acceleration really.
-and lastly i would like to have wall strafing back. now wall strafing actually slows you down like in cs lol...wtf...


i still love tfc the best though.

Respawn delay depends on your team's roll on the map. Most territory control maps have Attackers respawning in 3 seconds and Defenders respawning in 10.

[caesium]

tu, you've been pasting that in various places around the forums, and I've been trying to resist saying:

- It's a server variable.
- You can, it's a server variable.
- It makes a lot more sense for strafing into a wall to slow you down than speed you up.

I personally don't like TF2 as a "serious" game (not for those reasons you listed tho lol), but I think it's an excellent game for what it sets out to do. Back to the topic: yeah I've also found watching TF2 matches very dull, but it's more interesting than CS!

[SoBe Green]

I've always found watching TFC matches dull. If I ever watch them its usually because someone on O has pulled off a bad ass conc jump. I'll watch CPL matches of CS sometimes if once again something great happened. For the most part I find watching any match of any kind pretty dull unless there is something there that I haven't seen or done already. I still don't understand the people that watch a ton of match demos/videos. Its like watching a pre season football game 100 times. No matter how much you watch it the outcome didn't even matter to begin with and your no better at football than you were before you watched it.

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

I've always found watching TFC matches dull. If I ever watch them its usually because someone on O has pulled off a bad ass conc jump. I'll watch CPL matches of CS sometimes if once again something great happened. For the most part I find watching any match of any kind pretty dull unless there is something there that I haven't seen or done already. I still don't understand the people that watch a ton of match demos/videos. Its like watching a pre season football game 100 times. No matter how much you watch it the outcome didn't even matter to begin with and your no better at football than you were before you watched it.

The initial switch to tfc was annoying for me. and watching it too.

i enjoy re-watching matches because i like to assess how much of their success/loss is based on individual skills, team co-ordination, and luck. A lot of last night's tf2 matches on 2fort were horrible. 5v5 or 6v6 i think. Several times, scout/soldier/medic combo would be formed and try to get the flag, and an engy would be sandwiched between a dispensor and sg and repair away in the flagroom. By the time the 3 guys take the dispensor down, reinforcement from the enemy team would arrive and kill them all. Often times, players would survive with a sliver of life, like 4 health, but due to a lucky crit shot and respawn delay, they'd be able to take the flag and run with it when they clearly should have lost that round. And once one of the teams were in the lead by 1 point, 1 guy on the leading team would be running the flag, while 4 or 5 guys defend the flag. This inevitably would cause the other team to lose because while the losing team needs more than 1 d to effectively prevent the leading team from capping again, there's no way 4 guys can effectively win over the same 4 or 5, especially in their territory, assuming both teams are equally skilled.

I thought crits and spawn delays were just annoyances, but they literally turn what should be a fair match of individual skills and team coordination into 1 lucky opportunity, in which they then defend for the rest of the round as soon as they get the 1 point lead.

And it got me thinking, while ff does not leave as much room for luck, I'm anxious to see if to see if any of these things might also appear in leagues. Cuz mere annoyances turned out to play a major role in deciding if a team loses or wins for tf2, and i wonder if something like that has escaped notice in FF.

[SoBe Green]

Its also all to be expected. Both games are fairly new and I'm sure FF has the same problem somewhere. I agree the flag room of 2fort in TF2 is horribly designed with the way an engy can sit like that. Its annoying in pubs too. I think all leagues should abandon standard CTF and rely more on territory control maps. It attracts more of a variety than CTF. To me CTF is just a tired out game play mode you can find in just about any multiplayer FPS. People seem to enjoy the game more when they see what they did as a team. When your team makes that first cap in dustbowl the entire team is happy. When your team keeps the other team from getting past the second or first point in dustbowl everyone is congratulating each other. But on 2fort when one of your teammates cap in a pub you likely don't even care. In a match you are probably happy but too busy having scouts and medics up your ass to say much about it. And when the other team caps its your fault not your teams fault. Yes competitive CTF requires teamwork but I still think AvD or point control takes more teamwork and skill. You don't win canalzone2 because you were lucky, you win it because your team earned it.

[df`]

I hope to see more A/D style maps in FF...I really think they should be emphasized at least to the same extent as CTF. I wonder what would be the plausibility of making TC maps, like Hydro, in FF?

[Paft]

Anything that has word "Pwnage" is emediatly classed as boring to me. Also the word "Pwnage" and TF2 do not go together. :]

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

I think all leagues should abandon standard CTF and rely more on territory control maps. It attracts more of a variety than CTF. To me CTF is just a tired out game play mode you can find in just about any multiplayer FPS.

This was a thumbs down for me for TF2. The idea of bringing a flag back from the enemy base, or taking a flag to an enemy base has always attracted me to fps types of games. So much infact, i play starcraft and warcraft ctf. LOL.

I think the cp idea fits tf2 because of the overall physics mechanics of tf2. For any decent ctf maps to work for tf2, there needs to be a lot of open spaces, since there's no grenades to counter sentries in closed spaces. But at the same time, there needs to be more covers since snipers can easily dominate maps that are wide open. Even then, the map has to be somewhat linear, since not every class will be able to rocket/pipe jump into the crooks and cranies of a map. With cp, though, it only requires that people hold their position for a limited time.

The thing about TF games in general though, the game physics allow for a variety of gamemodes. Or at the very least, i think they should, so that an AvD ctf can remain ctf, with an option to make it into cp. With cp, the control points will always be the same spots. With a CTF AvD though, the control points always shifts, depending on where the flag was dropped. I think that's where the excitement for me comes in, to see if i'm versatile in my skills, skillful enough to change my conc timing, or can i bluff as a spy long enough to get the flag, can i rocket/gren jump the flag further into enemy territory, etc. Its the only reason why i play utfacingworlds for dod. LOL.

[Mooga]

Originally Posted by tu!

tf2 is okay except:
-20 sec respawn delay is so boring

I'm actually running a server with a 10 second max respawn time.
I had it set for 0 and 5, but it doesn't work well with the game and I got WAY too many complaints from my regulars and admins.

[Dr.Uudge]

speaking of clanning, a poster referred to this thread in the steam forums as an example of the trend of tf2 clanning.

During an actual scrim, if something that has not been confirmed as an intentional feature, isn't it the "gentleman's rule" or "show of good sportsmanship" to not use it, for either team? Especially if its something like shooting through floors? One of the guys who posted mentioned that the respawn delay and crits add to the raging. It's curious that tf2 also follows dods in terms of endgame situations where winners get to get free kills against the losing team.

I was under the impression that clan matches had unwritten, presupposed rules/guidelines that tended toward good sportsmanship/friendly competition, and that was one of the main driving forces of keeping clanning alive. That would _kind of_ explain why much of dods competition's died out. It would suck if this lack of fair-game attitude was a trend toward clanning in general, instead of isolated cases.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

just read some of the replies to that thread. i dont think they believe in gentlemanly conduct in the least bit.