Al Gore = Nobel prize? W..T..F.. - Page 4

uBeR · 10-15-2007, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekiM

"in no way"

ekiM got it.

zSilver_Fox · 10-16-2007, 05:22 PM

Ah, I misread it as "Japan's actions justify" et cetera. Great point you make.

I guess that because America invaded Iraq, ALL Americans in other countries should be kept away from borders and weaponry, incase they attempt a takeover. What America did is another fine little blotch in American history that the history books do their best to erase, along with eugenics. Hell, it wasn't even untill recently that I learned about the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus in both the Confederacy and the Union during the civil war. THAT'S how amazingly great the public edumacayshun system is.

uBeR · 10-16-2007, 06:59 PM

Lincoln did many things that most people would consider wrong or even illegal today, but did so in attempt to win the war. It seems reminiscent of the current administration.

CatzEyes93 · 10-16-2007, 08:48 PM

Yet somehow in a hundred years, many will say bush is the biggest mistake in presidential history. I dont agree with everything he says or does, but I dont think everything he has done is horrible.

(runs back to where she came from)

Credge · 10-16-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uBeR

Lincoln did many things that most people would consider wrong or even illegal today, but did so in attempt to win the war. It seems reminiscent of the current administration.

Much. Different.

The Lincoln comparison falls short for several reasons, the main one being that Lincoln had people in his cabinet that did not support his views so he could better understand all sides of any argument.

Bush has surrounded himself with like-minded people that support him in his decisions regardless. However, if anybody disagrees they are gone. See Jay Garner, John Abizaid, George Casey, etc.

uBeR · 10-16-2007, 09:32 PM

Yes, there's a difference in who they surrounded themselves with, but what's that got to do with what we we're talking about. What about the suspension of habeas corpus? Illegal prisons? Etcetera.

Dospac · 10-17-2007, 07:42 PM

The situation is different because fighting a civil war does not have the same international scope as our most recent actions.

The so called war on terror and the US invasion of Iraq and all the US and international laws that have been broken along the way are a different beast entirely.

When factions within a country fight for control(Noting that US foreign policy has made a mockery of this concept here in the Americas and elsewhere)... the role is essentially the reverse of what we're doing now. Lawfulness, habeas etc can't be compared directly between the US civil war and the US occupation of or aggression towards sovereign foreign states.

Scuzzy · 10-17-2007, 07:56 PM

Response to no one in general: Is the United States a sovereign nation, or a nation bound by international law? I think all nations subscribe to international law as a neat set of recommendations, but nobody takes them seriously... I don't have the history, but I'd be interested to know how many countries have actually been disolved because of not following international laws, or have had sanctions work that were not ignored by half the world. That's why i think saying the "war" is illegal is kinda silly.

Scuzzy

uBeR · 10-17-2007, 08:50 PM

Well an entire nation is susceptible to international law. That's just silly. No international court is going to find an entire nation guilty of violations of international law.

International law does, however, apply well to individuals, particularly the ones who make the decisions to break them. For these people, international law is taken seriously, lest they be tried in The Hague (hey, that's where by father's from!).

Take Thomas Lubanga, for example, a leader of a violent militia in the Congo suspected of crimes against humanity. The International Criminal Court issued a warrant for his arrest, and now he's awaiting trial in The Hague.

These things have to be taken seriously, especially if you want to consider the stakes.

Of course all states are sovereign and only adhere to international mandates voluntarily (for example, the U.S. opposes the ICC and does not have any obligation to listen to them). However, for the most part these states will follow international law because it is beneficial that they do. If you agree to follow international law, such as the Geneva Conventions, but fail to do so, you could face serious sanctions or even the threat of attack, depending on the facts.

For the most part though, they are created for the better good of society and appertain to the natural laws and unconditional rights guaranteed to all humans that both the Founding Father and the Bible discuss.

zSilver_Fox · 10-18-2007, 01:25 AM

Sanctions... they work well.

Innoc · 10-18-2007, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox

Sanctions... they work well.

ml4SF

Dospac · 10-18-2007, 11:53 PM

If only the biggest nations in the world followed and enforced em better.. World would be a better place!

zSilver_Fox · 10-19-2007, 02:57 AM

The biggest problem is that power corrupts. Men pursue offices because of the desire for power (for whatever reason). When they get that power, most tend to let their Id out (however, Freudian pscyhology is more philosophy than anything else). When you try to place restrictions on these powers, and they know that they'll only get a slap on the wrist (if that) for violating them, they're as useful as wet paper handcuffs.

Especially countries that feel that they're invunerable to the UN, and I'm sure you know who they are. What the UN is doing is the equivalent of telling a three year old who has no respect for their elders to stop doing what they're doing. A line has to be drawn somewhere. And I just lost my train of thought and have no idea wtf I'm talking about.

ml4SF eh? Care to say what the ML stands for :P?

Innoc · 10-19-2007, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox

ml4SF eh? Care to say what the ML stands for :P?

much love you furry bastard

zSilver_Fox · 10-19-2007, 04:15 AM

I'm sorry, but I believe you have a wife. =P

Innoc · 10-19-2007, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox

I'm sorry, but I believe you have a wife. =P

It's non-gay love dopey...and I've been divorced 7 years now. Closest thing to a wife that I have presently is my stupid yellow lab.

Deadly Furby · 10-19-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innoc

It's non-gay love dopey...and I've been divorced 7 years now. Closest thing to a wife that I have presently is my stupid yellow lab.

Trade in one bitch for another?

Dospac · 10-19-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innoc

Closest thing to a wife that I have presently is my stupid yellow lab.

Noc.. PUT THE PEANUT BUTTER DOWN NOW.

10-16-2007, 05:22 PM	#62
zSilver_Fox IRL Combat Medic Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ethanol Land Class/Position: D Medic Gametype: Conca Jumping Affiliations: ^iv Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ah, I misread it as "Japan's actions justify" et cetera. Great point you make. I guess that because America invaded Iraq, ALL Americans in other countries should be kept away from borders and weaponry, incase they attempt a takeover. What America did is another fine little blotch in American history that the history books do their best to erase, along with eugenics. Hell, it wasn't even untill recently that I learned about the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus in both the Confederacy and the Union during the civil war. THAT'S how amazingly great the public edumacayshun system is. __________________ I have a nasopharyngeal and webcam... First infraction! Flaming!

10-16-2007, 06:59 PM	#63
uBeR Not ****** Yet D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Lincoln did many things that most people would consider wrong or even illegal today, but did so in attempt to win the war. It seems reminiscent of the current administration. __________________ OCCUPATION 101. *One would think a simple task would be, well, simple. Maybe not for simpletons.*

10-16-2007, 08:48 PM	#64
CatzEyes93 Black Mesa Voice Actor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Yet somehow in a hundred years, many will say bush is the biggest mistake in presidential history. I dont agree with everything he says or does, but I dont think everything he has done is horrible. (runs back to where she came from) __________________ ___________________ Random Thoughts Only CatzEyes93.com

10-16-2007, 09:32 PM	#66
uBeR Not ****** Yet D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yes, there's a difference in who they surrounded themselves with, but what's that got to do with what we we're talking about. What about the suspension of habeas corpus? Illegal prisons? Etcetera. __________________ OCCUPATION 101. *One would think a simple task would be, well, simple. Maybe not for simpletons.*

10-17-2007, 07:42 PM	#67
Dospac Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The situation is different because fighting a civil war does not have the same international scope as our most recent actions. The so called war on terror and the US invasion of Iraq and all the US and international laws that have been broken along the way are a different beast entirely. When factions within a country fight for control(Noting that US foreign policy has made a mockery of this concept here in the Americas and elsewhere)... the role is essentially the reverse of what we're doing now. Lawfulness, habeas etc can't be compared directly between the US civil war and the US occupation of or aggression towards sovereign foreign states. Last edited by Dospac; 10-17-2007 at 07:52 PM.

10-17-2007, 07:56 PM	#68
Scuzzy The Old Timers Clan D&A Member Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Server: 206.217.134.170:27016 Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	Response to no one in general: Is the United States a sovereign nation, or a nation bound by international law? I think all nations subscribe to international law as a neat set of recommendations, but nobody takes them seriously... I don't have the history, but I'd be interested to know how many countries have actually been disolved because of not following international laws, or have had sanctions work that were not ignored by half the world. That's why i think saying the "war" is illegal is kinda silly. Scuzzy __________________ "Player Quality, not Quantity, is what we strive for." - The LLama Wrangler "A clan is defined by the nature of it's enemies. - The Llama Wrangler

10-17-2007, 08:50 PM	#69
uBeR Not ****** Yet D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well an entire nation is susceptible to international law. That's just silly. No international court is going to find an entire nation guilty of violations of international law. International law does, however, apply well to individuals, particularly the ones who make the decisions to break them. For these people, international law is taken seriously, lest they be tried in The Hague (hey, that's where by father's from!). Take Thomas Lubanga, for example, a leader of a violent militia in the Congo suspected of crimes against humanity. The International Criminal Court issued a warrant for his arrest, and now he's awaiting trial in The Hague. These things have to be taken seriously, especially if you want to consider the stakes. Of course all states are sovereign and only adhere to international mandates voluntarily (for example, the U.S. opposes the ICC and does not have any obligation to listen to them). However, for the most part these states will follow international law because it is beneficial that they do. If you agree to follow international law, such as the Geneva Conventions, but fail to do so, you could face serious sanctions or even the threat of attack, depending on the facts. For the most part though, they are created for the better good of society and appertain to the natural laws and unconditional rights guaranteed to all humans that both the Founding Father and the Bible discuss. __________________ OCCUPATION 101. *One would think a simple task would be, well, simple. Maybe not for simpletons.*

10-18-2007, 01:25 AM	#70
zSilver_Fox IRL Combat Medic Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ethanol Land Class/Position: D Medic Gametype: Conca Jumping Affiliations: ^iv Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Sanctions... they work well. __________________ I have a nasopharyngeal and webcam... First infraction! Flaming!

10-18-2007, 11:53 PM	#72
Dospac Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If only the biggest nations in the world followed and enforced em better.. World would be a better place!

10-19-2007, 02:57 AM	#73
zSilver_Fox IRL Combat Medic Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ethanol Land Class/Position: D Medic Gametype: Conca Jumping Affiliations: ^iv Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The biggest problem is that power corrupts. Men pursue offices because of the desire for power (for whatever reason). When they get that power, most tend to let their Id out (however, Freudian pscyhology is more philosophy than anything else). When you try to place restrictions on these powers, and they know that they'll only get a slap on the wrist (if that) for violating them, they're as useful as wet paper handcuffs. Especially countries that feel that they're invunerable to the UN, and I'm sure you know who they are. What the UN is doing is the equivalent of telling a three year old who has no respect for their elders to stop doing what they're doing. A line has to be drawn somewhere. And I just lost my train of thought and have no idea wtf I'm talking about. ml4SF eh? Care to say what the ML stands for :P? __________________ I have a nasopharyngeal and webcam... First infraction! Flaming!

10-19-2007, 04:15 AM	#75
zSilver_Fox IRL Combat Medic Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ethanol Land Class/Position: D Medic Gametype: Conca Jumping Affiliations: ^iv Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'm sorry, but I believe you have a wife. =P __________________ I have a nasopharyngeal and webcam... First infraction! Flaming!

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