FF Will Die, Thanks to "League Rules"

EvilIguana966 · 10-09-2007, 05:34 PM

I love this game. I want it to survive and prosper. I hate the style of TF2 and have no plans to play it. Unfortunately, all signs point to this mod dying a slow death thanks to a bunch of selfish, moronic, TFC vets. The population is currently low, but large enough to theoretically sustain a growing population. But that won't happen, because every new player will be scared away.

Why you say? Well currently, the most frequently populated servers are those run by groups of people who used to play TFC together. If you are a new player, you almost certainly will join one of these servers immediately. They are the nucleus of community growth. But what awaits a newbie on these servers? Illogical and outdated rules that limit classes and playstyles, administrators that boot without giving a reason, a single map all day every day, and elitist bastards who assume that their ruleset is the only way to have a fun game. A newbie who experiences this will be turned off. Chances are they will choose a different server, but chances are that at this point, it too has it's own set of stupid rules and regulations. Most likely they will give up almost immediately.

If the FF devs do not act, their wonderful game will be murdered at the hands of the TFC clan gestapo. You guys need to take a zero tolerance policy towards servers that set stupid rules. You need to make it clear on the front page, that a server with said rules must be passworded at all times, and failure to comply will not be tolerated. Any action you can take to shut non-compliers down should be taken. If it is feasible, you should go as far as to add extra coding in the game to make it inoperable on known violator servers. The survival of this mod is at stake.

Sabre · 10-09-2007, 05:43 PM

Don't be so bloody ridiculous, you can't tell someone who pays for their server how to run it, while your point may be valid that it doesn't help to attract new players, asking the dev team to attempt to rule with an iron fist on how all servers should be run is, im sorry to say moronic. FF cannot live without both public style AND clan style servers running, if in fact that these two types of server cannot live in harmony that will be the death of FF not the fact that clan style servers exist.

SmellyCat · 10-09-2007, 06:13 PM

Of course FF clan live without public clan-style servers and it's already well acknowledged that the majority of clan style servers will scare any potential nubbs away.

<- "clanner"

Boogieman117 · 10-09-2007, 06:14 PM

The devs make the game, the server ops manage their server. You seem to have a problem with the server ops and officers.

I know of many a TFC/FF clan server that holds an open pub, and LOCKS their server (with passwords) for clan-style play. Maybe the community should publish these 'passworded clanplay times', so that there is a balance.

10-09-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyCat

Of course FF clan live without public clan-style servers

Probably yea but still all that matters in this discussion is...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabre

you can't tell someone who pays for their server how to run it,

The best you can do is kindly ask the admins of these type of servers to password them.

**mervaka** · 10-09-2007, 06:19 PM

its not the fact that clan servers exist, but more of the attitudes of the people in them towards new players. sorry to say, i've witnessed first hand in irc (pickup/gather channels) what attutudes some people hold towards the new players when in their closed social circles. what needs to change is not how these people present themselves towards new players, but what they honestly and genuinely feel towards new players. there's no point argueing "i gave them 34534546534 chances" if you still think they're a tard just because they're new.

Sabre · 10-09-2007, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyCat

Of course FF clan live without public clan-style servers and it's already well acknowledged that the majority of clan style servers will scare any potential nubbs away.

<- "clanner"

Just as public style players wouldn't bother playing on public servers if they were all clan rules, clan style players wouldn't bother with public play if they were all public style, the game needs both sub communities playing to thrive.

C-Aim · 10-09-2007, 06:28 PM

I fully agreed with you until paragraph 3 where it took a turn towards psychotic. The thing that especially bugs me about "league rules" servers is that, IIRC, most leagues don't even have rules yet. These are all rules from TFC plus extra ones that don't make a lick of sense (like locking out the Pryo).

Nothing can really be done though... Server admins can do whatever the want with their server--even if it means that the same exact scenario from TFC is played out in FF. I would strongly urge server owners not to be so dickish but I tried that already with an open post to the community on day 2 or 3 about not trying to tell people the "right" way to play and to help out newbs, but very few people cared and even took the time to post about how nobody would listen and the thread was a waste of time.

You can make a great mod but you can't stop power hungry players/admins from trying to optimize their skill by changing how you play rather than adapting how they play. It's sad but true.

SmellyCat · 10-09-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabre

Just as public style players wouldn't bother playing on public servers if they were all clan rules, clan style players wouldn't bother with public play if they were all public style, the game needs both sub communities playing to thrive.

I don't really agree there. I consider myself a "clanner" and can happily play on public FF (it is MUCH more fun that TFC public) and if I want to play all the restrictive 'league rules' then I join a gather.

My opinion isn't that important. What's important is that I have seen people insulted/kicked for being new. That doesn't happen on regular servers and I don't like seeing it.

But meh, there'll be no newbies soon so it doesn't matter, right?

Alastair · 10-09-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilIguana966

I love this game. I want it to survive and prosper. I hate the style of TF2 and have no plans to play it. Unfortunately, all signs point to this mod dying a slow death thanks to a bunch of selfish, moronic, TFC vets. The population is currently low, but large enough to theoretically sustain a growing population. But that won't happen, because every new player will be scared away.

Why you say? Well currently, the most frequently populated servers are those run by groups of people who used to play TFC together. If you are a new player, you almost certainly will join one of these servers immediately. They are the nucleus of community growth. But what awaits a newbie on these servers?

You were right up until this point.

Quote:

Illogical and outdated rules that limit classes and playstyles, administrators that boot without giving a reason, a single map all day every day, and elitist bastards who assume that their ruleset is the only way to have a fun game. A newbie who experiences this will be turned off. Chances are they will choose a different server, but chances are that at this point, it too has it's own set of stupid rules and regulations. Most likely they will give up almost immediately.

1. The rules are there for a reason - it makes the game FUNNER for EVERYONE. As an experienced player trying to just go with the flow on a server without league guidelines, I played in the yard of Aardvark as a soldier/spy/medic or whatever I felt like playing. Can you honestly tell me it is more fun for these newbs to get blasted to smitherines by my rocket or gibbed to death by my knife over and over and over and over again, or would they rather I conc over them and run around them and let them figure out what is going on on their own with their score staying still and mine going up and up and up? I had more players (and experienced players) pissed off at me for playing in the yard than I could have ever imagined.

2. Admin abuse must be handled at the source - If you are on a server where admins are abusing their privelidges, tell the server operator. If they are the server operator, then put them on the list of shameful servers and bring it out to the community. But in the end, the reality is that server ops can do what they want with the game as they wish, so good luck with that.

3. Single map play - so much of a non-issue that it's not worth spending much time on. You don't like the map, change servers.

4. Elitist bastards - I picture these types of players in two groups - one being the total moron "omg I r teh w1n!" and the other group being the experienced players who are trying to have fun and don't take the time to explain to the new players what is going on. One group is worse than the other but both can share in the blame for not making the game enticing to the newer players.

Quote:

If the FF devs do not act, their wonderful game will be murdered at the hands of the TFC clan gestapo. You guys need to take a zero tolerance policy towards servers that set stupid rules. You need to make it clear on the front page, that a server with said rules must be passworded at all times, and failure to comply will not be tolerated. Any action you can take to shut non-compliers down should be taken. If it is feasible, you should go as far as to add extra coding in the game to make it inoperable on known violator servers. The survival of this mod is at stake.

You can't fight rules with more rules. Aim the fire extinguisher at the base of the fire and change the attitudes of the lame vets that you speak of.

YES, I think this mod community needs more lifeblood. Yes, people need to realize this and take on the manta of being a good example and teacher for others. NO, you do not have to go around slapping rules on everyone.

-Alastair

SME · 10-09-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilIguana966

I love this game. I want it to survive and prosper. I hate the style of TF2 and have no plans to play it. Unfortunately, all signs point to this mod dying a slow death thanks to a bunch of selfish, moronic, TFC vets.

Well, thanks for flaming, ignore time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mervaka

there's no point argueing "i gave them 34534546534 chances" if you still think they're a tard just because they're new.

Oh, PLEASE. What kind of mental midget thinks players are "tards" because thye are new? If somebody was given a number of chances and thy still break rules, they're a tard for not following rules, not because they're new.

**mervaka** · 10-09-2007, 06:55 PM

oh please? thankyou. i was talking about people who come into a clanstyle server not knowing what clanstyle is, and having textbook bigoted "L2P" warnings thrown at them. it doesnt help or encourage them to play, and you know it.

SoBe Green · 10-09-2007, 06:56 PM

Its fine to have these rules.
Its not fine to kick/ban new players because you aren't taking the time to explain the rules.

A lot of new players would love to play the game this way. It forces the objective system to be used. TFC lacked a way to make players want to cap the flag and FF has inherited the same problem.

On AvD maps both sides have a good idea of what they are supposed to be doing. This is why dustbowl and flagrun were more favored by the common gamer over standard CTF maps in TFC. There was a clear objective and acquiring that objective did more than add to a "team score".

When there isn't a clear line between offense and defense on a standard CTF map you'll get nothing but yard fighting. These rules do their best to make it clear so you have no Offense vs Offense. But since it isn't set in the game (like dustbowl) players have a hard time grasping the idea and reason behind it. The problem arises when you have two sets of offense and defense. Push is a fun map because everyone is playing offense and defense at the same time regardless of class. The formula works there. FF needs to in the future redefine standard CTF beyond "FF points" or we are basically playing TFC with updated graphics.

TF2 took this idea in a different angle by balancing the game in a way that almost any class can kill another class. This makes pretty much any class a decent defender or offensive runner just some are better at each task than the other. At the same time this isn't appealing to TFC players so it wasn't a great way to do it but it works.

FF needs a way to do this that would cancel out the need for these rules and at the same time maintain the feel of TF. Not an easy task but it can be done.

My rough idea was to set a way for a mapper to choose where a "Defender" could go and where an "Attacker" could go. You choose your team color and your class of choice then you get those two options and a limit of each based on the ratio of players on each side and fraction.

Example: Two players in one server. Since the other team has 1 Attacker the other team has to have one Defender. In a 3v3 an entire team could be defense and the other team could be offense. Boundaries would be set for the defenders. I'll use well as an example since it more or less divides the base already. Defense could be anywhere in their side of the base. They can't go above and over the middle tunnel or inside it. They don't die if they try they just can't pass it. This provides water defense, flag room defense, "battlement" defense, and main entrance defense. It isn't a polished idea or system but it would remedy this problem if more thought was put into the idea of it.

Industrial · 10-09-2007, 06:59 PM

There's been cases already where I wanted to help but they didn't want to be helped. Fine, but then you are going to get killed alot. In the end they just leave because I don't die. It's not that I'm super great or anything, I just know how stuff works. You snipe I spy, you spy I pyro, you pyro I snipe, you med I sol. *shrug* There's not much that can be done. I don't like playing a game where I win every time. That's not a game :P

SME · 10-09-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mervaka

oh please? thankyou. i was talking about people who come into a clanstyle server not knowing what clanstyle is, and having textbook bigoted "L2P" warnings thrown at them. it doesnt help or encourage them to play, and you know it.

Except that's not what you said. You said "there's no point argueing "i gave them 34534546534 chances" if you still think they're a tard just because they're new." If they were given a number of chances, then it's hard to argue that they're a tard JUST for being new. Now, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of players that are abusive towards new players but far fewer admins than you imagine.

I see players trying to run the show as if "their way" is the only right way to play, all of the freaking time. A LOT of players are constantly flaming, trash talking, name calling, and otherwise being an ass to other players. (You also see this on these forums, and you know it, just look at the OP) Most of the admins I know are pretty responsible and while kids shouldn't be allowed to run servers there's no age requirement so sometimes children do run servers poorly.

What goes too far is the assumption tht players have rights on other people's servers. That admins are "stupid" if they have rules that ignorediguana doesn't like, is insulting.

Dr.Uudge · 10-09-2007, 07:12 PM

Suggested before, but how about having a sticky in the "server" section of the forums that has a poll, perhaps updatable, to show "new comer friendly servers" labeled "Servers you might try if you're new to FF"?

So it'll work like this: someone suggests a server. the server goes up for a vote. If the people on this forum feel that the server is pretty good toward new comers, they vote +points. If not, they do -points. Also, people can see who voted for the +points and who voted for the -points. New players can see according to the points which servers are new-comer friendly.

This process can go for the any suggested servers. New comers can be directed toward the sticky thread, and they won't get a first bad impression, at least there's a good chance that they wont, if they first go to those servers in the sticky which has higher +points.

SME · 10-09-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair

2. Admin abuse must be handled at the source - If you are on a server where admins are abusing their privelidges, tell the server operator. If they are the server operator, then put them on the list of shameful servers and bring it out to the community. But in the end, the reality is that server ops can do what they want with the game as they wish, so good luck with that.

Define admin abuse? Kicking somebody you know? Kicking for breaking the rules? Not allowing children to act like abusive asses? I've been accused of admin abuse for all of those things. The fact is, it's my server, nothing is abuse because players have no rights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Uudge

Suggested before, but how about having a sticky in the "server" section of the forums that has a poll, perhaps updatable, to show "new comer friendly servers" labeled "Servers you might try if you're new to FF"?

So it'll work like this: someone suggests a server. the server goes up for a vote. If the people on this forum feel that the server is pretty good toward new comers, they vote +points. If not, they do -points. Also, people can see who voted for the +points and who voted for the -points. New players can see according to the points which servers are new-comer friendly.

This process can go for the any suggested servers. New comers can be directed toward the sticky thread, and they won't get a first bad impression, at least there's a good chance that they wont, if they first go to those servers in the sticky which has higher +points.

I'm just not into the whole forum clique thing, it'd be too easy to abuse. Members' votes mean nothing to me. YMMV.

C-Aim · 10-09-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SME

<quotes EvilIguana966>
Well, thanks for flaming, ignore time.

<quotes mervaka>
Oh, PLEASE. What kind of mental midget thinks players are "tards" because thye are new? If somebody was given a number of chances and thy still break rules, they're a tard for not following rules, not because they're new.

Holy shit that has to be some sort of forum speed record of a member chastising somebody for flaming and then turning around and doing it themselves. Its separated by a mere emeotocon and 5 words... BRAVO!

Also why do you think that people care who you ignore? Do you think that your snide comment of "ignore time" does anything other than make you look like a jackass. I'll await your response of "ignore time" (which will reinforce my character judgment) with bated breath.

IMO there should be a thread in this forum of servers where people post the IP and it stays up as long as others can confirm that the atmosphere is friendly. I know this idea is not a stellar solution and it would only help newbs who come to this website, but still it's better than nothing IMO.

EDIT: I Guess Dr. Uudge beat me to the punch in posting the suggestion.

v3rtigo · 10-09-2007, 07:21 PM

I agree that new players should be directed in the right direction. I remember playing on a clan-style server where a new player was playing pyro and attacked the other offense. Instead of pointing him to the rules, the players pretty much wanted him kicked right away.

On the opposite side, I was playing on a pub where I stabbed an incomming med to death only to have "you backtracking whore" thrown at my face. This guy was so 'l33t' he figured his rules would automatically apply to other servers as well.

That doesn't take away the fact that these two styles of play should be allowed. The problem lies in the connection between the two, there is no guide to show players how most clan-matches are setup and played, there is no guide that tells them the most common rules. Basically there is no way for players to adapt through theory (like a written guide). So if you ask me, should video tutorials ever be introduced for FF (like bhopping/concing), a video tutorial explaining the difference of these two types of play (and the basic mechnisms of a clanmatch) is a must.

Until that time, having a manual incorporate this should do fine for the time being. Either way, players should be able to learn about the know-how before-hand, so they can recognize the difference and know what it means so they can make their choice accordingly.

A thread with newb-friendly servers would also be a great help, as long as they actually read it.

10-09-2007, 07:23 PM

I say again: Clan Play Serverside Mod. Because if such rules are that essential to a computer game, they should be unbreakable.

- After selecting team and class, select one of two rules of engagement: Assault or Defend.
- Opposing players following the same RoE cannot damage each other.
- Assault's weapons are on safe inside their own base, while Defense's are on safe outside.

Go ahead, enforce clan play without this mod, if you want FF in the ground or if you are just plain psychotic enough to get off insulting and excluding "dirty pubfags".

Otherwise, code it. No, I won't, since I'm not a clan player.

10-09-2007, 05:34 PM	#1
EvilIguana966 Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	FF Will Die, Thanks to "League Rules" I love this game. I want it to survive and prosper. I hate the style of TF2 and have no plans to play it. Unfortunately, all signs point to this mod dying a slow death thanks to a bunch of selfish, moronic, TFC vets. The population is currently low, but large enough to theoretically sustain a growing population. But that won't happen, because every new player will be scared away. Why you say? Well currently, the most frequently populated servers are those run by groups of people who used to play TFC together. If you are a new player, you almost certainly will join one of these servers immediately. They are the nucleus of community growth. But what awaits a newbie on these servers? Illogical and outdated rules that limit classes and playstyles, administrators that boot without giving a reason, a single map all day every day, and elitist bastards who assume that their ruleset is the only way to have a fun game. A newbie who experiences this will be turned off. Chances are they will choose a different server, but chances are that at this point, it too has it's own set of stupid rules and regulations. Most likely they will give up almost immediately. If the FF devs do not act, their wonderful game will be murdered at the hands of the TFC clan gestapo. You guys need to take a zero tolerance policy towards servers that set stupid rules. You need to make it clear on the front page, that a server with said rules must be passworded at all times, and failure to comply will not be tolerated. Any action you can take to shut non-compliers down should be taken. If it is feasible, you should go as far as to add extra coding in the game to make it inoperable on known violator servers. The survival of this mod is at stake.

10-09-2007, 06:19 PM	#6
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	its not the fact that clan servers exist, but more of the attitudes of the people in them towards new players. sorry to say, i've witnessed first hand in irc (pickup/gather channels) what attutudes some people hold towards the new players when in their closed social circles. what needs to change is not how these people present themselves towards new players, but what they honestly and genuinely feel towards new players. there's no point argueing "i gave them 34534546534 chances" if you still think they're a tard just because they're new. __________________ Support FF:

10-09-2007, 06:28 PM	#8
C-Aim Better than Never Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NYC Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	This is a crazy/futile request unfortunately I fully agreed with you until paragraph 3 where it took a turn towards psychotic. The thing that especially bugs me about "league rules" servers is that, IIRC, most leagues don't even have rules yet. These are all rules from TFC plus extra ones that don't make a lick of sense (like locking out the Pryo). Nothing can really be done though... Server admins can do whatever the want with their server--even if it means that the same exact scenario from TFC is played out in FF. I would strongly urge server owners not to be so dickish but I tried that already with an open post to the community on day 2 or 3 about not trying to tell people the "right" way to play and to help out newbs, but very few people cared and even took the time to post about how nobody would listen and the thread was a waste of time. You can make a great mod but you can't stop power hungry players/admins from trying to optimize their skill by changing how you play rather than adapting how they play. It's sad but true.

10-09-2007, 06:55 PM	#12
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	oh please? thankyou. i was talking about people who come into a clanstyle server not knowing what clanstyle is, and having textbook bigoted "L2P" warnings thrown at them. it doesnt help or encourage them to play, and you know it. __________________ Support FF:

10-09-2007, 07:23 PM	#20
Iori Branford Guest Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	I say again: Clan Play Serverside Mod. Because if such rules are that essential to a computer game, they should be unbreakable. - After selecting team and class, select one of two rules of engagement: Assault or Defend. - Opposing players following the same RoE cannot damage each other. - Assault's weapons are on safe inside their own base, while Defense's are on safe outside. Go ahead, enforce clan play without this mod, if you want FF in the ground or if you are just plain psychotic enough to get off insulting and excluding "dirty pubfags". Otherwise, code it. No, I won't, since I'm not a clan player. Last edited by Iori Branford; 10-09-2007 at 07:29 PM.

10-09-2007, 05:43 PM	#2
Sabre Creg Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Don't be so bloody ridiculous, you can't tell someone who pays for their server how to run it, while your point may be valid that it doesn't help to attract new players, asking the dev team to attempt to rule with an iron fist on how all servers should be run is, im sorry to say moronic. FF cannot live without both public style AND clan style servers running, if in fact that these two types of server cannot live in harmony that will be the death of FF not the fact that clan style servers exist.

10-09-2007, 06:13 PM	#3
SmellyCat Darknight Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: England Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Of course FF clan live without public clan-style servers and it's already well acknowledged that the majority of clan style servers will scare any potential nubbs away. <- "clanner"

10-09-2007, 06:14 PM	#4
Boogieman117 FF Server Op / Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The devs make the game, the server ops manage their server. You seem to have a problem with the server ops and officers. I know of many a TFC/FF clan server that holds an open pub, and LOCKS their server (with passwords) for clan-style play. Maybe the community should publish these 'passworded clanplay times', so that there is a balance.

10-09-2007, 06:56 PM	#13
SoBe Green SoBe Yourself Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Russellville, AR Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Its fine to have these rules. Its not fine to kick/ban new players because you aren't taking the time to explain the rules. A lot of new players would love to play the game this way. It forces the objective system to be used. TFC lacked a way to make players want to cap the flag and FF has inherited the same problem. On AvD maps both sides have a good idea of what they are supposed to be doing. This is why dustbowl and flagrun were more favored by the common gamer over standard CTF maps in TFC. There was a clear objective and acquiring that objective did more than add to a "team score". When there isn't a clear line between offense and defense on a standard CTF map you'll get nothing but yard fighting. These rules do their best to make it clear so you have no Offense vs Offense. But since it isn't set in the game (like dustbowl) players have a hard time grasping the idea and reason behind it. The problem arises when you have two sets of offense and defense. Push is a fun map because everyone is playing offense and defense at the same time regardless of class. The formula works there. FF needs to in the future redefine standard CTF beyond "FF points" or we are basically playing TFC with updated graphics. TF2 took this idea in a different angle by balancing the game in a way that almost any class can kill another class. This makes pretty much any class a decent defender or offensive runner just some are better at each task than the other. At the same time this isn't appealing to TFC players so it wasn't a great way to do it but it works. FF needs a way to do this that would cancel out the need for these rules and at the same time maintain the feel of TF. Not an easy task but it can be done. My rough idea was to set a way for a mapper to choose where a "Defender" could go and where an "Attacker" could go. You choose your team color and your class of choice then you get those two options and a limit of each based on the ratio of players on each side and fraction. Example: Two players in one server. Since the other team has 1 Attacker the other team has to have one Defender. In a 3v3 an entire team could be defense and the other team could be offense. Boundaries would be set for the defenders. I'll use well as an example since it more or less divides the base already. Defense could be anywhere in their side of the base. They can't go above and over the middle tunnel or inside it. They don't die if they try they just can't pass it. This provides water defense, flag room defense, "battlement" defense, and main entrance defense. It isn't a polished idea or system but it would remedy this problem if more thought was put into the idea of it.

10-09-2007, 06:59 PM	#14
Industrial Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	There's been cases already where I wanted to help but they didn't want to be helped. Fine, but then you are going to get killed alot. In the end they just leave because I don't die. It's not that I'm super great or anything, I just know how stuff works. You snipe I spy, you spy I pyro, you pyro I snipe, you med I sol. shrug There's not much that can be done. I don't like playing a game where I win every time. That's not a game :P

10-09-2007, 07:12 PM	#16
Dr.Uudge in-game as Dr.Ainpipe Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Suggested before, but how about having a sticky in the "server" section of the forums that has a poll, perhaps updatable, to show "new comer friendly servers" labeled "Servers you might try if you're new to FF"? So it'll work like this: someone suggests a server. the server goes up for a vote. If the people on this forum feel that the server is pretty good toward new comers, they vote +points. If not, they do -points. Also, people can see who voted for the +points and who voted for the -points. New players can see according to the points which servers are new-comer friendly. This process can go for the any suggested servers. New comers can be directed toward the sticky thread, and they won't get a first bad impression, at least there's a good chance that they wont, if they first go to those servers in the sticky which has higher +points.

10-09-2007, 07:21 PM	#19
v3rtigo Lock 'n Loll! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 2fort Class/Position: Scout, Spy, Sniper Gametype: CTF Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I agree that new players should be directed in the right direction. I remember playing on a clan-style server where a new player was playing pyro and attacked the other offense. Instead of pointing him to the rules, the players pretty much wanted him kicked right away. On the opposite side, I was playing on a pub where I stabbed an incomming med to death only to have "you backtracking whore" thrown at my face. This guy was so 'l33t' he figured his rules would automatically apply to other servers as well. That doesn't take away the fact that these two styles of play should be allowed. The problem lies in the connection between the two, there is no guide to show players how most clan-matches are setup and played, there is no guide that tells them the most common rules. Basically there is no way for players to adapt through theory (like a written guide). So if you ask me, should video tutorials ever be introduced for FF (like bhopping/concing), a video tutorial explaining the difference of these two types of play (and the basic mechnisms of a clanmatch) is a must. Until that time, having a manual incorporate this should do fine for the time being. Either way, players should be able to learn about the know-how before-hand, so they can recognize the difference and know what it means so they can make their choice accordingly. A thread with newb-friendly servers would also be a great help, as long as they actually read it.

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