No feigning :(

[Skanky Butterpuss]

Originally Posted by Thor-Stryker

but that also misses the point of what TFC is. Its always been a moderately high speed frag fest. By the time it takes you to feign past multiple defenders, your team will have already pushed multiple times into the enemy base. Plus on maps like 2fort, trying to feign past the ramp room would be near impossible.

The TF2 spy has invisibility on a timer, which works well to balance it out. But partial visibility always lends it self to a good player being able to see you. Theres people that you could stand in front of and block their movement, and they would never know whats happening, but then theres the seasoned clan player that sees you the moment you step off the balcony.

I personally would like to see the spy be nearly invisible, yet make a low-humming noise that is audible 5-7 yards away, and give off footsteps along the ground. That way a player would know a spy is around, and even be able to follow him, but they can't just easily see the shimmer effect and blast away.

But I'm going to wait for a video once the team tweaks cloaking to their desired level. Then gauge if it will be overpowered, underpowered, or balanced.

am i missing something or did you just contradict yourself?

[GhOsT]

Originally Posted by Thor-Stryker

but that also misses the point of what TFC is. Its always been a moderately high speed frag fest. By the time it takes you to feign past multiple defenders, your team will have already pushed multiple times into the enemy base. Plus on maps like 2fort, trying to feign past the ramp room would be near impossible.

The TF2 spy has invisibility on a timer, which works well to balance it out. But partial visibility always lends it self to a good player being able to see you. Theres people that you could stand in front of and block their movement, and they would never know whats happening, but then theres the seasoned clan player that sees you the moment you step off the balcony.

I personally would like to see the spy be nearly invisible, yet make a low-humming noise that is audible 5-7 yards away, and give off footsteps along the ground. That way a player would know a spy is around, and even be able to follow him, but they can't just easily see the shimmer effect and blast away.

But I'm going to wait for a video once the team tweaks cloaking to their desired level. Then gauge if it will be overpowered, underpowered, or balanced.

I think you are expecting the spy to be a one man army and be able to avoid people strickly on it's own. Howerver, that is not the case and IMO it shouldn't be. He should have to work together with another teammate to get by defenders undetected. If not then you would just see offensive teams consist of just spies.

[Thor-Stryker]

If people take the time to read the text, they'd understand that I'm not talking about a one man army. I know the strengths and follies of the spy. Their strength being their ability to get behind their opponent and avoid SGs. Their folly being that they are easily detectable. People just don't understand that certain techniques create cookie cutter effects. The original disguise was a cookie cutter effect. Newbies thought you were a team mate, vetrans could tell you were a spy the second you walked in. I'm afraid the cloak will be the same.

But how could one intend the spy to be a team player when its designed to be a sabotage class, making key assaults on SG and defender positions to allow team mates through. Not, "Having to use team-mates to get past defense so then you can set up attack to have team mates get past defense."

As for contradicting my self, I couldn't tell you where you see that. I just don't want to have to grenade jump up the balcony on 2fort just so I can get a key sg and die without a fight like I've had to. Other classes were far superior at doing the spy's job. This is why its rarely used in tourney play.

[nex nicholai]

Originally Posted by Thor-Stryker

As for contradicting my self, I couldn't tell you where you see that.

Its right around where you say the spy is not a team player because he takes down SGs to allow his teammates to get by.

Originally Posted by Thor-Stryker

But how could one intend the spy to be a team player when its designed to be a sabotage class, making key assaults on SG and defender positions to allow team mates through.

[Thor-Stryker]

Its a team player in a sense that he helps his team mates in the end, but he isn't because hes designed to operate by him self. Sorry for not clearing that up.

So you were right, I did contradict my self.

[Circuitous]

The Spy isn't as visible as you people seem to think.

Just as an example... today's playtest, I come up SD2 elevator cloaked. I run into Direhit, playing Demo. He announces there's a cloaked Spy in the flag room, and starts lobbing nades - at some point he apparently sees me jump back down the lift. I, however, have not moved. He runs right by me three times and doesn't take notice. I slip right by when he turns away, and I'm off.

If you're clever, you won't get spotted. Lead them one way, then take another. Use decoys and distractions to your advantage, and for all that is holy don't use cloak constantly.

Spies were so fuckin' useful on O today that at one point we had four of 'em (mostly for shits 'n giggles, I'll admit). The core of offensive Spy play hasn't changed much.

[Thor-Stryker]

I'll believe you for now sir, you have been testing him after all.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

oh man not to mention how i totally fucking raped red team on dustbowl today. i capped all 3 points and sabotaged probably 7 sgs in order to do so

[qui]

The cloak is very effective. Yes of course if theres nothing going on in your screen, you can spot it.

But in a frantic, TFC based environment he is tough to spot.

The spy is very good on FF at the moment.

And skanky, you were totally lucky.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

now, i admit that the first cap was pure luck. i dont know how the fuck i capped that one, but i did.

the other 2, however, were not. at cap 2, i had both sgs sabotaged and waiting for my command, i knifed the demo piping the flag, and commanded the sgs to kill the rest of the team in sight as soon as i grabbed the flag and lost my disguise.

same thing for cp 3, except there was only one sg to take care of

[mervaka]

what? we can sabotage multiple SGs from the same sentrysabotage command? awesome

[Bean]

Originally Posted by qui

The cloak is very effective. Yes of course if theres nothing going on in your screen, you can spot it.

But in a frantic, TFC based environment he is tough to spot.

The spy is very good on FF at the moment.

And skanky, you were totally lucky.

Glad to see they're continuing to add people.

[Beavis]

I still don't understand why there couldn't be a feign animation death put in instead of the cloak. I understand the ragdoll limitations however.

Sure an animated death would be easy to detect over a real ragdoll death but if you made a dozen death animations I'm sure it would be harder to detect. But that's kind of beside the point anyway, Most spies never feign in a battle anyway. The point was to hide amongst dead bodies.

[qui]

I think it has more to do with unfeigning from a client side position

[GhOsT]

Originally Posted by Beavis

I still don't understand why there couldn't be a feign animation death put in instead of the cloak. I understand the ragdoll limitations however.

Sure an animated death would be easy to detect over a real ragdoll death but if you made a dozen death animations I'm sure it would be harder to detect. But that's kind of beside the point anyway, Most spies never feign in a battle anyway. The point was to hide amongst dead bodies.

You'd understand why that isn't a possibility once you see how bodies can fly around. The only way an animation would look natural compared to a ragdoll would be if the spy was standing completly still and no outside forces were pusing him.

[Ihmhi]

Skanky is a real cockholster playing Spy on dustbowl.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by Beavis

I still don't understand why there couldn't be a feign animation death put in instead of the cloak. I understand the ragdoll limitations however.

Sure an animated death would be easy to detect over a real ragdoll death but if you made a dozen death animations I'm sure it would be harder to detect. But that's kind of beside the point anyway, Most spies never feign in a battle anyway. The point was to hide amongst dead bodies.

The problem.

[Nezumi]

And ALL of the weapons in FF push ragdolls quite a bit, more so than other games I can think of, so corpses always always fly a little ways when they die. This would make any death animations at all infeasable.