Auto Rifle. Yes or no?

[o_dirkpitt]

Bah this thread is back again. The sniper needs something for close range. The sniper is never in a position where he is safe and always able to use charged shots.

[o_dawhitewizard]

lose the auto...a decent sniper in tfc dont need the auto at all anyway.. if you must, replace it with a pistol?

[o_nezumi]

I have never had a problem with a sniper using an AR against me.
If you're near enough that a sniper is ARing you long enough to kill you, you're doing something wrong (or the sniper isn't the only thing attacking you, in which case it's not really a matter of being AR'd).

That said, Putting in a clip size sounds like a good idea. I always did think it was kinda funny that they could spew 75 bullets out.

Recoil = bad
recoil /= something with any sort of place in TFC

Or a pistol. That'd be neat.

I guess it comes down to whether or not the AR/AR-alternative should eat sniping ammo.

[o_travis dane]

Has not yet been mentioned, but NO BOBBING either. Leave dodgy shit like that to be used in CS.

As for short-ranges, snipers shouldn't really be doing close-range combat. But to not leave the sniper empty-handed, a similar something like the autorifle could be used. Possibly with a clip, but I have to say I like clip-less guns, kinda gives it an old-skool feeling yeah?!

[o_binarylife]

If you're near enough that a sniper is ARing you long enough to kill you, you're doing something wrong (or the sniper isn't the only thing attacking you, in which case it's not really a matter of being AR'd).

I don't find this true at all, since I've seen a sniper kill a HW with one clip of AR. Granted, the sniper was a bot, but all it was doing was circle straffing.

The AR is really damn powerful, you beat it by not getting shot by it. If you're getting shot, you're getting dead. I'm not saying 100% of the time, but enough to really cause a problem.

Plus I hate the noise it makes. It screams "panicing newb sniper!"

[o_eviliguana966]

Give the sniper rifle a 10 shot clip. Sniper mode it works like it did in TFC mostly with the esception of needing to reload every 10 shots. AR mode retains the 10 shot clip but has a decent amount of spread, a medium rate of automatic fire, and medium damage.

Personally though I never found the AR that overpowered in TFC. Maybe for aimbotters, but it was limited in ammo and took a while to knock your health down. If you were inside the effective range of the sniper rifle you could kill them a lot faster than they could kill yoiu using other weapons.

[o_ink]

I've had a change of heart. Originally I wanted the Auto Rifle to be left of out FF. But after reading everyones posts, I now realize the weapon can be regulated. Personally, I think what made this weapon quite annoying was its push ability. So i say...

- Remove the push
- 10 or 15 size clips
- Forget about adding recoil
- Auto Rifle Toggle/Zoom perhaps?...to enduce the snipers role as a long range player

[o_dredknot]

I don't like the idea of clips. If you give the AR clips the sniper will have to reload every 2 seconds because of the AR's rate of fire. If you're going to do something like that change it to 3-round burst with no clips.

Recoil and bobbing are bad because they have absolutely no place in any TF game. TF is not a realistic game. If you try to rocket/grenade jump in other games guess what happens. You get ripped apart from your ass to your face and everything between flies around the planet. TF is a team game made to be fun not "Realistic War Shooter #406."

As for having the sniper move slower when the rifle is out, that wouldn't work. AR would be useless if the sniper moved slower. The nailgun would be a better choice close range because the sniper would at least have mobility.

On the case of the AR being overpowered, I think its fine as is. A good sniper cannot take down a halfway decent HW or Soldier with the AR alone. The HW chaingun vs. a sniper with AR is a joke. All it takes is about 3 seconds of chaingun fire to kill a sniper at full health. And its not like the HW has to move much, just point and shoot at higher mouse sensitivities. Soldier will make the sniper bounce around with his RPG making it near impossible for the sniper to kill him. Not to mention with any class vs sniper it only takes one well-placed grenade to blow the sniper to pieces.

[o_voipme]

Originally Posted by Dredknot

I don't like the idea of clips. If you give the AR clips the sniper will have to reload every 2 seconds because of the AR's rate of fire. If you're going to do something like that change it to 3-round burst with no clips.

Recoil and bobbing are bad because they have absolutely no place in any TF game. TF is not a realistic game. If you try to rocket/grenade jump in other games guess what happens. You get ripped apart from your ass to your face and everything between flies around the planet. TF is a team game made to be fun not "Realistic War Shooter #406."

As for having the sniper move slower when the rifle is out, that wouldn't work. AR would be useless if the sniper moved slower. The nailgun would be a better choice close range because the sniper would at least have mobility.

On the case of the AR being overpowered, I think its fine as is. A good sniper cannot take down a halfway decent HW or Soldier with the AR alone. The HW chaingun vs. a sniper with AR is a joke. All it takes is about 3 seconds of chaingun fire to kill a sniper at full health. And its not like the HW has to move much, just point and shoot at higher mouse sensitivities. Soldier will make the sniper bounce around with his RPG making it near impossible for the sniper to kill him. Not to mention with any class vs sniper it only takes one well-placed grenade to blow the sniper to pieces.

If you consider some of the unmentioned changes that could be taking place in order to balance out the classes, wouldn't it be a bad thing if the AR remained unchanged? The specific examples you offer relate to TFC, and not to FF since it isn't released yet. Yes, FF is based on TFC, but it isn't going to be the same game. A little change here and there to make it exciting is definitely welcome from my point of view.

[o_binarylife]

It does make sence to wait before judging the AR as unblanced. I personally don't like it very much, but there are many things that can change that. Even things that are subtle and don't really change it's power.

I'm all for waiting I guess. But for the record I hate the AR in regular TFC

[o_nezumi]

I definitely don't speak for everyone when I say this, but this is how things generally go for me when I snipe:

If someone gets up close to me, I assume that I'm going to loose the fight. I'll either stay on the sniper rifle and try to get a lucky shot in the head before they kill me, or pull out the AR and fire as best as I can while running away like a scared machinegun rabbit. Even if I hit them with all the AR I fire while I run I'm either out of sight before I can kill them, or they kill me.

As for when I don't snipe, if I'm near a sniper they don't kill me with the AR. Perhaps just nock some health off before they die/run/kill me with something besides the AR.

I think the AR was pretty well balanced in TFC. As some of you have pointed out, there's no way that we can forsee how changes made in FF might unbalance it.

However, I still like the idea of adding a clip size because it really does seem awkward without one. 10-15 bullets seems like it'd be too small. If you have to stop and reload that often in a fight you're going to get blown to vapor. A 25 bullet clip may work, assuming you still carry 75 bullets. Or whatever. I suppose adding a clip that big would just be an aesthetic change.

[o_deizel]

the autorifle should reload, otherwise there should be a hose attached to the bullet-feeding machine in the resupply, or large rambo-styley ammo around the snipers neck.

the clips size should be the same as that on the model, a believable amount.

if a second model is created for the autorifle there should be a delay between switching between them. "hold on while i put this away and get my other rifle out."

[o_butt mcfloyd]

Whatever happens, it HAS to lose acuracy with the longer you fire it.

[o_evil zer0]

i say leave it as tfc style

but yeah make the auto rifle function hard to use (inaccurate)

[o_dirkpitt]

Losing accuracy does not fit the way tfc plays.