Question to testers/devs about concs

[Circuitous]

Completely random but with steady aim is learnable. And since they've said the aim remains steady... what's the issue here?

[o_rizzo]

I like how it is in TFC now. Atleast in my opinion TFC is really offence based nowadays (except on those total lockdown maps no one plays), making concaim unlearnable would fuck it up even more. And besides, as i said, its fun. I know quite many beta testers ("wohoo") and i admit ive asked a lot things and they seem to tell me everything. I heard the whole gameplay is a lot faster than its now in tfc, theres one more reason to make it simple/keep it as it's now (but what i know ive never played it =D)

Only thing I personally would do is remove all HW's tracers completely, that might look a bit dull but ah well

[o_saberwolf]

Bringing up an old issue. In TFC, when a soldier is conced the rockets models go where the actual shots are going, however the nails and shotgun shots still show up in the middle of the crosshair, even though the actual shot is not being fired there.

Is this the same in FF? Or do the nail models/shotty shots actually go where they are being fired?

[o_paft]

Aren't you forgetting that weird warp affect as well.

[Circuitous]

The warp is just the explosion.

[o_paft]

Ah yes, I forget.

[o_id_]

yeah i dont really think this is going to be much of an issue for those who already know how to conc aim, being as the only real difference seems to be the way your vision moves while conced. the only time the static pattern ever really helped in tfc is if someone caught you off guard with a conc, you could find the center of the figure 8 to readjust yourself. im up for the challenge of learning something a bit different anyway

[mervaka]

its a shame noone else is.

[o_binarylife]

I honestly don't know how I feel about it. I don't like the idea of a conc being rendered useless in a month or two when everyone learns the trick. The fact is, no matter how hard you make it, if you make it possible then people will learn it. If the weapon is designed to impair the enemy then it should do that and stay that way. If it's desinged to move the enemy away, and not impair their aim, then it should do only that. I just don't like the idea that a weapon which works now wont work a few months down the road.

But on the other side, I like being able to learn things not everyone else can. As newcomers come into the game being experienced actualy helps a little. Knowign "Trade secrets" if you will does make the game for fun. Plus it satisfies the gamer to learn new tricks.

I'm torn at the moment, to be honest.

[o_own3r]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

I honestly don't know how I feel about it. I don't like the idea of a conc being rendered useless in a month or two when everyone learns the trick. The fact is, no matter how hard you make it, if you make it possible then people will learn it. If the weapon is designed to impair the enemy then it should do that and stay that way. If it's desinged to move the enemy away, and not impair their aim, then it should do only that. I just don't like the idea that a weapon which works now wont work a few months down the road.

But on the other side, I like being able to learn things not everyone else can. As newcomers come into the game being experienced actualy helps a little. Knowign "Trade secrets" if you will does make the game for fun. Plus it satisfies the gamer to learn new tricks.

I'm torn at the moment, to be honest.

Elitist communities always die; case and point TFC.

[Jiggles]

Well, all game communities die eventually. When it comes down to it, the TFC community was vibrant and active for way longer than many other online games.

Elitism sucks, yes, but having some less-than-obvious techniques are what give games depth and thus (for me, anyway) staying power.

[o_exoronic]

Originally Posted by Lost

How many medics or scouts waste their concs on an O run? None. It will add a whole new strategy to explore. And you know what counters a fast running scout? A hard hitting pyro. Even conced, the splash from the IC is mean, get anywhere near them and they're toast. And since the scout's caltrops are actually somewhat useful now, I think its pretty even. Conc those bastards, toss a pack of caltrops in front of them and hop like a mofo out, if you can make it past the fatty, that is. The concview hasn't been even the slightest of an issue during our playtests.

Why is everybody talking about the pyro ?

Talk about more about the soldier rockets etc etc

[o_marchy]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well, all game communities die eventually. When it comes down to it, the TFC community was vibrant and active for way longer than many other online games.

Elitism sucks, yes, but having some less-than-obvious techniques are what give games depth and thus (for me, anyway) staying power.

Agreed, In away depth=game longevity.

Being as it is concaim becomes second nature, like rocket jumping or conc-jumping or bhopping. So I disagree that with the people that it should totally fuck your aim up.

I know we didn't change the power of the solly because people that actually learned how to play it can predict where the enemy is going next, air or on the ground.

It already serves as two main functions in game; getting somewhere FAST or moving the enemy, messing up his aim is a third bonus. People don't give enough credit to moving the enemy, that alone should throw off the other person's aim long enough for you to make that vital touch or kill a more skilled defender.

So on one hand I don't know that it should be giving it more power would be right, however giving the incredible new power some classes are getting, some tweaking might be needed.

I agree some with some others, minor tweaking would be useful, but it should be learnable.

I agree with rizzo, this game has become a bit offensive based (which I don't mind too much, since I play D mainly)

[o_ihmhi]

Okay, we can decide this in a fair manner.

You will need:

-A baseball bat
-A nerf gun/dart gun
-A target
-A friend
-Pen and paper

Directions:

Put the baseball bat on the ground with the handle end facing up. Put your forehead on the handle. Spin around the bat approximately 50 times. Now have a friend hand you the dart gun and try to hit the target from 10 meters.

Record how many times you hit it and how many times you miss.

Now repeat the process ten times or so under as identical conditions as possible. Does your aim improve much? Does your aim improve at all?

Conc grenades are supposed to disorient you. There is pretty much no way to learn how to control disorientation: I mean, look at the frickin' word: Dis-oriented. You do not have you bearings, your senses are all outta whack.

I am completely against concaim bein' learnable for this reason because it adds another layer of elitism to a game that frankly has more than enough of that stuff.

I also hope that the conc effect is sufficiently random to make an anticonc cheat almost impossible.

[o_herbie]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

Okay, we can decide this in a fair manner.

You will need:

-A baseball bat
-A nerf gun/dart gun
-A target
-A friend
-Pen and paper

Directions:

Put the baseball bat on the ground with the handle end facing up. Put your forehead on the handle. Spin around the bat approximately 50 times. Now have a friend hand you the dart gun and try to hit the target from 10 meters.

Record how many times you hit it and how many times you miss.

Now repeat the process ten times or so under as identical conditions as possible. Does your aim improve much? Does your aim improve at all?

Conc grenades are supposed to disorient you. There is pretty much no way to learn how to control disorientation: I mean, look at the frickin' word: Dis-oriented. You do not have you bearings, your senses are all outta whack.

I am completely against concaim bein' learnable for this reason because it adds another layer of elitism to a game that frankly has more than enough of that stuff.

I also hope that the conc effect is sufficiently random to make an anticonc cheat almost impossible.

The argument for realism really doesn't hold up. This is a game with two teams running about, happy to die for flags, with railguns and rocket-jumping.

Any decision should be made on game balance alone.

[Jiggles]

And fun

[o_saberwolf]

Originally Posted by SaberWolf

Bringing up an old issue. In TFC, when a soldier is conced the rockets models go where the actual shots are going, however the nails and shotgun shots still show up in the middle of the crosshair, even though the actual shot is not being fired there.

Is this the same in FF? Or do the nail models/shotty shots actually go where they are being fired?

tester answer plz!!!!!!

[Lost]

Originally Posted by Exoronic

Why is everybody talking about the pyro ?

Talk about more about the soldier rockets etc etc

Ask more questions about em. They aren't too unique to us, he's still like playing the sol in TFC except faster RoF and faster rockets. The pyro feels like whole new player class now. He's just an entirely new defensive and offensive factor to consider.

He's been ignored in TFC for so long that its like finding out you have a hot neighbor's daughter whom you've never met and that you wanna invite over to play "doctor" all the time.

Oh, and I don't know Saber, I was gonna let Jiggles say if he knew.

[Jiggles]

Right now the nails & shotty shots go where they are fired.

[o_amazingnurseenrique]

Originally Posted by rizzo

Imo concaim should be learnable, atleast in tfc it's quite fun =D Maybe do 3-5 different "spinning" effects which comes up randomly? and people would have to learn to recognize every single different "spinning" !

That's an immense barrier to competant play. If we hope to ever get new players into TF (which should be a goal of any next gen version of a previous concept), things like this can really muck up the soup in that regard.