oh no, a downer!

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by mirvin_monkey

Are you sure, I recall the original design stated that you couldn't just dis/det your building.

Yeah, the design doc does say that, but I think it would be better to have the sentry detable as long as it's not in "attack friendly" mode. I would keep the dispenser undettable, though

[Dospac]

wtf NO.

Just kiddin, was thinking about it more, I think disabling the detonate command is good, but we should still let the engy dismantle it assuming he can get within dismantle range.

[o_ghost]

It would probably be easier to chuck a nade or 2 at it at that point. I'd guess that dismantling a sentry gun that is shooting at you would be pretty difficult.

[o_()))crayola))_>]

Originally Posted by broodingdude

This needs to be nerfed to 5 seconds.

Yes, it needs to be, since you have such experience with the 10 seconds.

[o_iggy]

I am *VERY* impressed with the gameplay video! Nice job team!
The only issue that really concerns me, is the map lighting. Can it be adjusted via settings, or is it completely locked?

I do have a question about the spy cloaking ability. I appeared that the spy tossed down a "decoy" body when he cloaked. Is that what happened? Or did I miss something?

No matter what anyone says, This game looks badass as hell!
Any chance of bribing someone to be on the Beta roster?

[o_nezumi]

Lighting is always locked in source games, although you can still fiddle with your brightness/contrast/gamma of course.

I think that is a decoy corpse.

[o_amazingnurseenrique]

Changes are especially scary for fortress players, as they don't want to break what's not broken. But I think the HWGuy trimp and spy features are OK, especially in the context that balance is really redone here...high end clan games did not see equal use of all classes for a lot of reasons. Strengthening spy from the original design is not only welcome, but I believe neccesary to getting the class to see solid use in competitive circuits.

Also remember, things will probably be unbalanced in the first iteration of FF. Balance is like an analog radio dial -- you overshoot and undershoot a couple times trying to turn the knob to the right spot to get a clear signal.

Personally, my biggest balance concern is how to make two classes that are light, fast and feature concussion grenades both viable but different as runners. Scouts were completely inferior to medics (at least in TFC) because the scout didn't bring enough tools, speed or mobility to offset his combat impotancy.

[o_duffmanhb]

Originally Posted by AmazingNurseEnrique

Changes are especially scary for fortress players, as they don't want to break what's not broken. But I think the HWGuy trimp and spy features are OK, especially in the context that balance is really redone here...high end clan games did not see equal use of all classes for a lot of reasons. Strengthening spy from the original design is not only welcome, but I believe neccesary to getting the class to see solid use in competitive circuits.

Also remember, things will probably be unbalanced in the first iteration of FF. Balance is like an analog radio dial -- you overshoot and undershoot a couple times trying to turn the knob to the right spot to get a clear signal.

Personally, my biggest balance concern is how to make two classes that are light, fast and feature concussion grenades both viable but different as runners. Scouts were completely inferior to medics (at least in TFC) because the scout didn't bring enough tools, speed or mobility to offset his combat impotancy.

AGREED!

[o_sacred]

Is that the final HWG animations? Just noticed that when he jumps, his gun swings out far to the right, yet he keeps shooting. I guess in first person he looks like he is shooting straight forward as usual when he jumps.

When infact his gun has gone crazy far to the right :P

[o_jarek]

all i gotta say is that despite all the gadgets you gave spy, i probably will play whichever mod has the better knife hitboxes. TFC's are perfect, and it took very long for people to learn how to face stab others. i still think the hijacking of the sg is pretty stupid, but probably wont be used competitively except in situations like monkey where you have that gay cockblocking hw with sg strat (though with class balances changing i dont see this being an issue until a few months into actual league play.) the decoy body is good enough for me, i like feigning but thats as close to feigning as you can get i suppose, just too bad you wont be able to get random people to try to walk over and crowbar you anymore then unfeign last second and face stab them.

edit:

also i know this is being talked about a ton on the cats, dono about here: the tagging by the sniper is going to be absolutely retarded in matchplay (or even organized pubs). any sniper could just sit on the bats and tag the enemy offense coming into the base, and bam.. the entire defense then has esp. you think 2 competant soldiers could hold almost anything on 2fort? try 2 soldiers and a sniper tagging people up top. even worse, think about maps like mulch_trench or oppose2k1 (big yard or separate room noone goes into except to cap the flag). this feature would be just fine if it was for the sniper's eyes only, because then he would at least have to go and comm where stuff is (kind of like a spotter) and not just grant his entire team a wallhack.

[Jiggles]

Obviously if it came down to that, we'd change the tracers -- but I don't think it will. On D you'd have to decide between a player that can plug a chokepoint, or a tagging sniper. Quite often, the extra Soldier, or HW, or whatever will prove supperior b/c even if the Sniper can somehow tag every player that's incoming (very unlikely), he won't also be dealing them nearly as much damage as that extra soldier/hw/whatever.

What the tracers do provide is an alternate strat on D. If there is the occasional map where they're simply overpowered, then yeah, they can be disabled for that map.

[o_jarek]

i'm sure you remember the early 2fort days of tfc, even with the laggy dot every server had at least 2 snipers on either side... even if a team is unorganized you are going to get tagged at least every other run on offense, wether you kill the snipers or not.

i am pretty much 100% against this, but i haven't played it so i guess theres no way to judge completely yet.

[o_etzell]

On the early days of 2fort, there were many sniper battles because they got a lot of frags. Tagging people doesn't get you a frag. How many times does someone drop down from the batts and try to chase you through the map? Very few. If they miss you, they don't care what you do with their flag, they just want a kill.

[o_[o-t] scuzzy]

I'd think if a spy has the ability to capture an SG surely they'd take the time to first dismantle the remote destruct to it doesn't blow up in their face.

Suggestion: Spys can capture Sentris for 10-20 seconds. The sentries will target it's original teams players except the building engineer and the building engineer has to dismantle it to stop it (or wait for it to wear off). This way he has to actually be near the thing (and care for it as if someone was shooting at it) to remedy the situation.

Scuzzy

[o_darksoul]

the way i see it, radio tagging has been introduced to try and make the sniper more useful in clan play. will it be worth dropping a sol for a sniper to tag people? obviously we don't know yet but it's certainly an option to be considered to break up the sol vs med tactics that are in play at the moment.

there is no chance in hell that average joe pubber is going to tag a player rather than go for the kill.

[o_agent buckshot moose]

Originally Posted by darksoul

the way i see it, radio tagging has been introduced to try and make the sniper more useful in clan play. will it be worth dropping a sol for a sniper to tag people? obviously we don't know yet but it's certainly an option to be considered to break up the sol vs med tactics that are in play at the moment.

there is no chance in hell that average joe pubber is going to tag a player rather than go for the kill.

Yeah, one of the things that excites me most about FF is that it will hopefully be the death of Medic/Soldier Fortress Classic. A sniper our on the battlements that has good aim could be highly annoying for an enemy offense. Don't even have to bother with full charge shots when you can just shoot them in the leg. Slows them down and lets your team know where they are for a good amount of time.

[o_jarek]

i just thought of a simple solution to the spy tampering with your sg problem; just like the "enemies are near your dispensor" message put in something like that for the sentry gun, so the engy would have to choose wether or not to det it.

[mervaka]

Originally Posted by darksoul

the way i see it, radio tagging has been introduced to try and make the sniper more useful in clan play. will it be worth dropping a sol for a sniper to tag people? obviously we don't know yet but it's certainly an option to be considered to break up the sol vs med tactics that are in play at the moment.

there is no chance in hell that average joe pubber is going to tag a player rather than go for the kill.

todays playtest we were playing well OvD. we had a sniper in the big room at the FR end. i was being a nublet HW at the other end of the catwalk. i cant begin to tell you how fucking awesome it was! i even got a kill tracking a medic who overshot into the ceiling. i kinda felt like one of those patriot missile defence systems!

whether its better than a soldier is down to the map, and how good a sniper they are, really. maps with large rooms like well could justify it, given a good sniper.

[o_etzell]

Originally Posted by jarek

i just thought of a simple solution to the spy tampering with your sg problem; just like the "enemies are near your dispensor" message put in something like that for the sentry gun, so the engy would have to choose wether or not to det it.

...But it isn't a problem.
As for that, that'd make the sg tampering next to impossible. Why even bother putting it in, if you're just going to neuter it with a warning like that?

[o_gunslinger]

Comedy moment of this thread was someone saying the hitboxes in TFC were perfect for knifing. The amount of times you get rubber-knife syndrome is soooooooooooooooo annoying, especially if the ping difference between you and target is vaguely high.