Layout Design - Page 2

o_kam · 11-28-2006, 10:08 AM

Inkscape is awesome.

o_vendicator · 11-28-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarek

layout-wise i have some suggestions for the playability (though this is going by tfc map rules)

these are all refering to the TOP base in the drawing (for orientation purposes)

-one of the spawns it seems you have to run an unnecessary length just to get back into action (down a hall and up a spiral?) consider either putting a one way teleporter from that spawn into the batts spawn, or decreasing the distance to get back in action

-make the T junction above the bridge entrance somehow unique, fun, and a playable soldier position. it needs to be compact, though by this i mean playable for soldier which is hard to judge for FF and the only reason I have not started a map for the mod yet.

-the basement (or left entrance) is very well designed, but if i were you i would make the far left hall somehow give the offense an advantage for going the long way to flag. consider maybe making it come out on a 3rd level in the flagroom such as mortality_l's attic in tfc to where it would also be a nice sg spot

These were basically my very first thoughts when i saw your outlne, in the grand scheme of things, i think it looks nice, but the proportions seem to show that a scout can prolyl spawn and reach the flag and get out by the time an HW guy, or even a soldier can get situated into a position...

other then that, i really like it!

o_own3r · 12-20-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendicator

These were basically my very first thoughts when i saw your outlne, in the grand scheme of things, i think it looks nice, but the proportions seem to show that a scout can prolyl spawn and reach the flag and get out by the time an HW guy, or even a soldier can get situated into a position...

other then that, i really like it!

I have updated the design in general and to try and rectify this.
See first post

o_luminous · 12-20-2006, 08:36 PM

have you started making the map yet? if not, why not just start n see how things feel as you make them?

o_own3r · 12-20-2006, 09:32 PM

Have you started making the map yet?
No

Why not?
I will be honest I am not an artist creativity does not come easily to me, this means I cannot make it up as I go along. I have tried working from rough plan drafts more times than I care to remember, each and every time they fail for some of the following reasons:

The layout does not work in terms of game-play, its either too offensively orientated or vise versa.

Or worse the vision of the map, which I had in my head fades. As it fades so the map loses direction until I give up on the project.

So thats why I don't just make the map up off the cuff, this is why I think plans are worth doing:

Working to a plan which has been revised many times also reduces the amount of play-testing the map will require. As balance was thought through while designing it, so should not need as much modification. Also in the process of planning it and revising it you are reinforcing the vision of the map in your head and improving upon it.

I have a reasonable amount of experience with map making, so I know how things flow in levels. Granted it is not always easy to see you have to imagine you are running around the level from the plan. The way I do it is to imagine that you are a player and that you cannot stop or make tight turns. Yet you flow like water so are resistant to obstructions such as railings, which the player would have to jump over or stairs that slow you down/stop your bunny hopping.

So to summarize;
Its easier to balance with a plan
I loose the vision of the project without a plan
It makes the map better designed (by definition) so needs less play-testing

But you have the plan why not start already? I want updates!
Well I am only going to start when I can actually see how the game plays and how the game is balanced. Until the game is released I will hold off from making it, as for me its important to test concing and similar abilities so that I can tailor the map to them. After all theres little point making something when you don't know if it will work, better to be able to test it.

o_nodnarb · 12-21-2006, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Own3r

I have updated the design in general and to try and rectify this.
See first post

I like this design alot better! I can envision this in my head now, and can't wait to play it. The only thing I thought of is to move the flag on to the platform behind it.

o_own3r · 12-22-2006, 05:08 PM

There is still a major problem with the design that far left area is very lacking, any ideas of how it could be spiced up to play better?

o_own3r · 12-23-2006, 11:00 PM

Bump, updated the design to try and improve the left hand side
http://www.ashu39.dsl.pipex.com/layout5.png

o_own3r · 12-27-2006, 11:27 AM

bUMP

I have updated the design for changelog see first post
http://www.ashu39.dsl.pipex.com/layout7.png

o_paft · 12-27-2006, 02:14 PM

I think you will get tired of this very quickly because this will require some work but from viewing the layout it looks like this could be a brillaint map.

o_stino · 12-28-2006, 11:48 AM

i get it difficult to understeand what you mean there at the bridge, the underground route seems to come at the same level as the bridge but also not?

11-28-2006, 10:08 AM	#21
o_kam Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Inkscape is awesome.

12-20-2006, 08:36 PM	#24
o_luminous Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	have you started making the map yet? if not, why not just start n see how things feel as you make them?

12-20-2006, 09:32 PM	#25
o_own3r Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Have you started making the map yet? No Why not? I will be honest I am not an artist creativity does not come easily to me, this means I cannot make it up as I go along. I have tried working from rough plan drafts more times than I care to remember, each and every time they fail for some of the following reasons: The layout does not work in terms of game-play, its either too offensively orientated or vise versa. Or worse the vision of the map, which I had in my head fades. As it fades so the map loses direction until I give up on the project. So thats why I don't just make the map up off the cuff, this is why I think plans are worth doing: Working to a plan which has been revised many times also reduces the amount of play-testing the map will require. As balance was thought through while designing it, so should not need as much modification. Also in the process of planning it and revising it you are reinforcing the vision of the map in your head and improving upon it. I have a reasonable amount of experience with map making, so I know how things flow in levels. Granted it is not always easy to see you have to imagine you are running around the level from the plan. The way I do it is to imagine that you are a player and that you cannot stop or make tight turns. Yet you flow like water so are resistant to obstructions such as railings, which the player would have to jump over or stairs that slow you down/stop your bunny hopping. So to summarize; Its easier to balance with a plan I loose the vision of the project without a plan It makes the map better designed (by definition) so needs less play-testing But you have the plan why not start already? I want updates! Well I am only going to start when I can actually see how the game plays and how the game is balanced. Until the game is released I will hold off from making it, as for me its important to test concing and similar abilities so that I can tailor the map to them. After all theres little point making something when you don't know if it will work, better to be able to test it.

12-22-2006, 05:08 PM	#27
o_own3r Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	There is still a major problem with the design that far left area is very lacking, any ideas of how it could be spiced up to play better?

12-23-2006, 11:00 PM	#28
o_own3r Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Bump, updated the design to try and improve the left hand side http://www.ashu39.dsl.pipex.com/layout5.png

12-27-2006, 11:27 AM	#29
o_own3r Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	bUMP I have updated the design for changelog see first post http://www.ashu39.dsl.pipex.com/layout7.png

12-27-2006, 02:14 PM	#30
o_paft Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think you will get tired of this very quickly because this will require some work but from viewing the layout it looks like this could be a brillaint map.

12-28-2006, 11:48 AM	#31
o_stino Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i get it difficult to understeand what you mean there at the bridge, the underground route seems to come at the same level as the bridge but also not?

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