Custom Textures? - Page 2

o_demasu · 07-12-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rifle

3.I put a mario hat on a homless guy

What you did with that is worthy of paint, not GIMP or PS, it saddens me to see such a good program go to waste....

o_rifle · 07-12-2006, 10:35 PM

Putting a mario hat on a homless guy is not a waste of the program.

o_demasu · 07-12-2006, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rifle

Putting a mario hat on a homless guy is not a waste of the program.

Not if you actually put some effort into it instead of scribbling with the paintbrush to make a scribble on the guys head with an 'M' in the middle of it.

o_rifle · 07-12-2006, 11:13 PM

It's my master piece.

o_demasu · 07-12-2006, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rifle

It's my master piece.

Then you should put down the program and just use paint from now on. If you want to see some good stuff that's using the program to its full potential most of the time, go to www.worth1000.com

o_yohan1973 · 07-13-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

I dont think we, as a mappers dont need the textures now. I mean, if we get our map 'ready' we still need to tweak it when ff is ready to get the entries right and stuff like that. Just throw some placeholder textures and be more concerned about the brushwork. Ok.
*hands out a cookie*

It's been a while since I've stopped in here (forrum). I understand what you are saying Donny but still disagree. Due to the fact that textures are sparse...I have personally stopped mapping MONTHS AGO. I might revisit some of my earlier brush work once an official map texture pack is released but I see no reason to further develop any of the 5-6 maps I started almost a full year ago.

o_handzman · 07-13-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yohan1973

It's been a while since I've stopped in here (forrum). I understand what you are saying Donny but still disagree. Due to the fact that textures are sparse...I have personally stopped mapping MONTHS AGO. I might revisit some of my earlier brush work once an official map texture pack is released but I see no reason to further develop any of the 5-6 maps I started almost a full year ago.

Then make your own textures? I don't understand, why stop making maps because you don't have cool looking textures, or enough of a variety? Keep in mind gameflow makes the map fun while textures and assets make the map pretty. Who cares about polish when the map isn't even done?

o_imbrifer · 07-13-2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handzman

Who cares about polish when the map isn't even done?

Textures aren't polish - they are as much a part of the creation of a map as the architecture is. Certain textures go with eachother, contrast eachother, and go with certain light, shading and architecture. This all comes together as a 'theme' or a 'feel' that the player gets. If you cant build your theme, you can't build your map. I would have stopped making 2morforever if I didn't come up with the dirty brown theme which was heavily dependent on HL2's plaster textures.

Sure, I can draw it out on paper and drop in some basic architecture but that's all it will be until I have textures that work with the map and build a theme.

Making your own textures isn't as easy as it may sound. Mod teams have texture artists, they don't have mappers make textures. Why? Because it is something that takes skill and practice, like mapping. We could learn and build it up and get there, but frankly there isn't much motivation in learning to make textures for building maps for an unreleased game whos mapping community is all but dead - and getting worse. Its exciting, but the years start to go by and now I sometimes have to push myself to work on Lake or Sky and even then it doesn't last long. Look at the list of custom maps that have been/are being worked on and see how many of those mappers are regulars anymore.

Sorry for the depressing post, but I think that's the real answer.

o_addicted to morphine · 07-13-2006, 03:11 AM

I completely agree with Imbrifer on this one.

Making your own textures is MUCH easier said then done. Honestly though, trying to work on a map (that's past the layout design stage) without your final texture set is pretty frustrating. Working so hard on texturing when you know it's nothing but a placeholder is annoying, especially when you consider that the final texture set could clash entirely with your architectural theme. I can see why Yohan lost interest.

Also, Imbrifer, did you catch my post about your map Attrition? I'm wondering what you thought about my idea.

o_handzman · 07-13-2006, 08:12 AM

I can see what you're talking about Imbrifer, textures do have to match with the architecture and that is a very important process of mapmaking. My only complaint on that is you guys seem to think that the aesthetic comes first in the map rather than one of the last steps. Of course theme is important, but why waste time thinking of textures IF your gameflow doesn't work in the first place?

I've made a few maps myself so I do know the process, I'm not just blowing smoke. First comes gameflow, or how the map plays. If it's not fun, it's not worth wasting time on until it is. Period. Am I right? That's the first step, and that is a very important step. That's why I don't understand scrapping maps for the aesthetic feel. So what if it looks like dirt? If it plays well, then polish that map until it's nice looking AND plays well.

CliffyB, while he may be pretty full of himself, does preach some real good information on mapmaking, and in his rant section he has a few guides on what makes an excellent map. He's working on Gears of War now, so he does know what he's talking about (plus he worked on UT 2k4 before that). Anyways, he says that in order to make a great map it requires technical skill and an artistic skill, and without both then the map will fail.

o_alligator · 07-13-2006, 09:03 AM

I also completely agree with what Imbrifer posted.

o_nezumi · 07-13-2006, 01:22 PM

Handzman, I don't get it. You say that aesthetic should come as one of the last steps of the map, then at the end of your post say that without artistic and technical skill the map will fail.

The way I see things, playing a game is an entirely aesthetic experience, and the actual 'gameplay' is therefore no less aesthetic than the look of a map. In terms of the hobby of making a map, it's much harder to make a map either original or good looking or both than it is to make it play well (for that we just need to copy the layout of an old map), so makin a good looking map with interesting architecture and the perfect textures is where a lot of the challenge of mapping comes from. So, in other words, texturing is very important to a map.

In my case, I'm impatient so I thought of some map ideas that could take advantage of the HL2 textures as much as possible or made my own textures. (I'm actually not too great at making textures but making team colored versions of stuff is a snap). I can't really blame other people for not working on their maps before FF is out.

Also in my case, it probably would be a good idea to wait anyway because I'm guessing in a lot of cases as to what the FF entity system and LUA could do. Maybe I'll be dissappointed and have to scrap some maps

o_handzman · 07-13-2006, 06:13 PM

I guess map design isn't the same for everybody

o_sh4x · 07-13-2006, 08:22 PM

I got a map in progress that was coming to life really well until a couple weeks ago. I'm at the point where I feel the need for final textures to go further.

I need to work on other things that don't require textures but I can't find any motivation for it anymore.

A texture pack would probably do the trick and I could finish the map even before the game is out. But now, it's going to have to wait until after the game is out I'm afraid. Don't get me wrong, I understand why there won't be any official texture pack released and I think it's better that way for multiple reasons. But it kinda sucks for us, custom mappers.

07-12-2006, 10:35 PM	#22
o_rifle Join Date: May 2006 Location: could you give me directions Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Putting a mario hat on a homless guy is not a waste of the program.

07-12-2006, 11:13 PM	#24
o_rifle Join Date: May 2006 Location: could you give me directions Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	It's my master piece.

07-13-2006, 03:11 AM	#29
o_addicted to morphine Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Coast, USA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I completely agree with Imbrifer on this one. Making your own textures is MUCH easier said then done. Honestly though, trying to work on a map (that's past the layout design stage) without your final texture set is pretty frustrating. Working so hard on texturing when you know it's nothing but a placeholder is annoying, especially when you consider that the final texture set could clash entirely with your architectural theme. I can see why Yohan lost interest. Also, Imbrifer, did you catch my post about your map Attrition? I'm wondering what you thought about my idea.

07-13-2006, 08:12 AM	#30
o_handzman Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: California Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I can see what you're talking about Imbrifer, textures do have to match with the architecture and that is a very important process of mapmaking. My only complaint on that is you guys seem to think that the aesthetic comes first in the map rather than one of the last steps. Of course theme is important, but why waste time thinking of textures IF your gameflow doesn't work in the first place? I've made a few maps myself so I do know the process, I'm not just blowing smoke. First comes gameflow, or how the map plays. If it's not fun, it's not worth wasting time on until it is. Period. Am I right? That's the first step, and that is a very important step. That's why I don't understand scrapping maps for the aesthetic feel. So what if it looks like dirt? If it plays well, then polish that map until it's nice looking AND plays well. CliffyB, while he may be pretty full of himself, does preach some real good information on mapmaking, and in his rant section he has a few guides on what makes an excellent map. He's working on Gears of War now, so he does know what he's talking about (plus he worked on UT 2k4 before that). Anyways, he says that in order to make a great map it requires technical skill and an artistic skill, and without both then the map will fail.

07-13-2006, 09:03 AM	#31
o_alligator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: California Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I also completely agree with what Imbrifer posted.

07-13-2006, 01:22 PM	#32
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Handzman, I don't get it. You say that aesthetic should come as one of the last steps of the map, then at the end of your post say that without artistic and technical skill the map will fail. The way I see things, playing a game is an entirely aesthetic experience, and the actual 'gameplay' is therefore no less aesthetic than the look of a map. In terms of the hobby of making a map, it's much harder to make a map either original or good looking or both than it is to make it play well (for that we just need to copy the layout of an old map), so makin a good looking map with interesting architecture and the perfect textures is where a lot of the challenge of mapping comes from. So, in other words, texturing is very important to a map. In my case, I'm impatient so I thought of some map ideas that could take advantage of the HL2 textures as much as possible or made my own textures. (I'm actually not too great at making textures but making team colored versions of stuff is a snap). I can't really blame other people for not working on their maps before FF is out. Also in my case, it probably would be a good idea to wait anyway because I'm guessing in a lot of cases as to what the FF entity system and LUA could do. Maybe I'll be dissappointed and have to scrap some maps

07-13-2006, 06:13 PM	#33
o_handzman Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: California Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I guess map design isn't the same for everybody

07-13-2006, 08:22 PM	#34
o_sh4x Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I got a map in progress that was coming to life really well until a couple weeks ago. I'm at the point where I feel the need for final textures to go further. I need to work on other things that don't require textures but I can't find any motivation for it anymore. A texture pack would probably do the trick and I could finish the map even before the game is out. But now, it's going to have to wait until after the game is out I'm afraid. Don't get me wrong, I understand why there won't be any official texture pack released and I think it's better that way for multiple reasons. But it kinda sucks for us, custom mappers.

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