Question to testers/devs about concs

o_rannibunny · 01-26-2007, 08:30 AM

g'day.

I'd love to hear as much as possible about my favorite child: the conc.
As the speedthingy (radius, acceleration, stuff) is probably still being tweaked I won't ask for information about it (but I ask for a movieupdate as soon as it's set ^_^)

What I really want to know about, is the negative conc effect. Please tell me if we'll stumble around (randomly moving in a random direction without pressing any movement keys) while being conced. That's probably the thing I dislike most about ETF and QWTF o_O

I'd also like to hear about the impact on your aiming, but thats probably easier to show as well ^_^

The easiest way to show all that info in a single movie would be a conc from the well water to the tower (let's just bump into the ceiling or something. If you say that the speed is still being tweaked before the movie release, I think that not even me will whine about it...). Some standing around and firing (stumble or no stumble) and some moving around and firing (impact on movement)

Lost · 01-26-2007, 12:05 PM

It has no impact on movement at all but it does make your aiming go haywire. As of yet, I haven't found a pattern to it, making it very hard to predict which way you're pointing. You can also conc out of the water on well and hit the ceiling in the FR as well as time it right to land right on the ledges around the FR.

**mervaka** · 01-26-2007, 12:21 PM

i wanna see 'concaim' cease to exist. random patterns ftw!

o_rannibunny · 01-26-2007, 12:37 PM

I can already feel my bloodpressure increase while I download FF... Ba-Bam... Ba-Bam.. BA-Bam.. BA-BAm BA-BAM BA-BAM... ^_^

A little later I'll be flying around and crying like baby ^_^

What I mean is: great news

o_ghost · 01-26-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervaka

i wanna see 'concaim' cease to exist. random patterns ftw!

I agree. In TFC concing some people is just a waste of a conc. It doesn't affect them at all. That's really the main intended use of a conc too even though now most people just use them to get around faster.

o_mrmojo · 01-26-2007, 02:41 PM

wouldnt that be too powerful? throw a few concs and you basically make the defence except engi and demo useless for a long time

**mervaka** · 01-26-2007, 02:45 PM

what? using concs as concs for once is overpowering? dont forget for every conc they throw, thats one less conc jump. i think its fair.

o_rizzo · 01-26-2007, 02:55 PM

Imo concaim should be learnable, atleast in tfc it's quite fun =D Maybe do 3-5 different "spinning" effects which comes up randomly? and people would have to learn to recognize every single different "spinning" !

o_rannibunny · 01-26-2007, 03:04 PM

Argh, rizzo. That sounds like a Japanese console game, therefore I agree...
But completely random is probably still the best choice...

o_mrmojo · 01-26-2007, 03:09 PM

yeah make it learnable

o_player · 01-26-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhOsT

In TFC concing some people is just a waste of a conc. It doesn't affect them at all.

It places more emphasis on conc placement to move the opponent rather than "Okay, you are conced, I shall walk passed you now.".

I would like conc aim to remain as an additional skill but I agree with Rizzo and the other believers that it needs to be harder to learn :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervaka

what? using concs as concs for once is overpowering? dont forget for every conc they throw, thats one less conc jump. i think its fair.

All of the TF games I have played allow the ability to aim whilst conced; maybe they are trying to tell us something.

o_ghost · 01-26-2007, 03:17 PM

I could go with that it could be learnable up to a point. However, I don't think anyone should ever get to the point where they can aim just as well conced as they can not conced. I won't mind if people can learn to aim slightly better while conced.

I still think that the conc grenade should have some sort of an affect on people, since that's kinda the whole point of the grenade. If you want to make it so people can just learn to negate the whole conc effect then why not just turn it into some type of medic/scout jump assistant...since that's basically all it's good for in clan matches in TFC now anyway.

o_ghost · 01-26-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Player

It places more emphasis on conc placement to move the opponent rather than "Okay, you are conced, I shall walk passed you now.".

I would like conc aim to remain as an additional skill but I agree with Rizzo and the other believers that it needs to be harder to learn :P

All of the TF games I have played allow the ability to aim whilst conced; maybe they are trying to tell us something.

You are forced to use the grenades that way now because the TFC conc effect is so easy to learn. I'm not saying you should be able to waltz right by a conced player as he is shooting the ground/walls around you. I'm saying that concing a HWguy should yield you at least a little time to pass him without constantly getting hit.

I find it funny how people whine about how the game is too defensive and place rules to limit the defense because of that yet still want to keep a "skill" in the game that is one of the causes of this imbalance.

o_mrmojo · 01-26-2007, 03:20 PM

make it harder to learn and thats good enough, or decrease how long the effect lasts if its random

o_ghost · 01-26-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojo

make it harder to learn and thats good enough, or decrease how long the effect lasts if its random

All making it harder to learn means is that it'll just take longer for people to get to the point where they are today in TFC. It's a poor short term solution imo.

**mervaka** · 01-26-2007, 03:34 PM

well even random patterns can be sort of learned by moving the mouse against the direction the conc draws your aim towards. once you've learned a concaim pattern, its completely useless against you. i mean, the conc doesnt even hurt you, its supposed to throw your aim off.
maybe the conc could be nerfed in other ways, such as the scale in which it operates, and the effect time as people have said.

i'm all for two dimensional perlin noise!

Lost · 01-26-2007, 04:06 PM

How many medics or scouts waste their concs on an O run? None. It will add a whole new strategy to explore. And you know what counters a fast running scout? A hard hitting pyro. Even conced, the splash from the IC is mean, get anywhere near them and they're toast. And since the scout's caltrops are actually somewhat useful now, I think its pretty even. Conc those bastards, toss a pack of caltrops in front of them and hop like a mofo out, if you can make it past the fatty, that is. The concview hasn't been even the slightest of an issue during our playtests.

o_soundman · 01-26-2007, 05:35 PM

If you get conced does it actually change your aim? Or is it like TFC now, meaning if you don't move your mouse (after you are conced) you are still shooting at the exact same thing you were shooting before conced?

Lost · 01-26-2007, 05:38 PM

Yep, you still shoot exactly where you were pointing, its just moving it that screws you up.

o_sta_sirtiger · 01-26-2007, 05:47 PM

Uh, I completely agree with Rizzo, it shouldn't be completely random. Instead, make it learnable, but with different patters to learn. This way, the gamer will need to recognize which pattern of the (x) is it and know what to do. Completely random just screws it.

01-26-2007, 08:30 AM	#1
o_rannibunny Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Question to testers/devs about concs g'day. I'd love to hear as much as possible about my favorite child: the conc. As the speedthingy (radius, acceleration, stuff) is probably still being tweaked I won't ask for information about it (but I ask for a movieupdate as soon as it's set ^_^) What I really want to know about, is the negative conc effect. Please tell me if we'll stumble around (randomly moving in a random direction without pressing any movement keys) while being conced. That's probably the thing I dislike most about ETF and QWTF o_O I'd also like to hear about the impact on your aiming, but thats probably easier to show as well ^_^ The easiest way to show all that info in a single movie would be a conc from the well water to the tower (let's just bump into the ceiling or something. If you say that the speed is still being tweaked before the movie release, I think that not even me will whine about it...). Some standing around and firing (stumble or no stumble) and some moving around and firing (impact on movement)

01-26-2007, 12:05 PM	#2
Lost Fear teh crowbar. Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oklahoma Gametype: CTF ftw, yeh Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	It has no impact on movement at all but it does make your aiming go haywire. As of yet, I haven't found a pattern to it, making it very hard to predict which way you're pointing. You can also conc out of the water on well and hit the ceiling in the FR as well as time it right to land right on the ledges around the FR. __________________ Do what you want cuz a pirate is free! You are a pirate!

01-26-2007, 12:21 PM	#3
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	i wanna see 'concaim' cease to exist. random patterns ftw! __________________ Support FF:

01-26-2007, 02:45 PM	#7
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	what? using concs as concs for once is overpowering? dont forget for every conc they throw, thats one less conc jump. i think its fair. __________________ Support FF:

01-26-2007, 03:34 PM	#16
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	well even random patterns can be sort of learned by moving the mouse against the direction the conc draws your aim towards. once you've learned a concaim pattern, its completely useless against you. i mean, the conc doesnt even hurt you, its supposed to throw your aim off. maybe the conc could be nerfed in other ways, such as the scale in which it operates, and the effect time as people have said. i'm all for two dimensional perlin noise! __________________ Support FF:

01-26-2007, 12:37 PM	#4
o_rannibunny Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I can already feel my bloodpressure increase while I download FF... Ba-Bam... Ba-Bam.. BA-Bam.. BA-BAm BA-BAM BA-BAM... ^_^ A little later I'll be flying around and crying like baby ^_^ What I mean is: great news

01-26-2007, 02:41 PM	#6
o_mrmojo Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	wouldnt that be too powerful? throw a few concs and you basically make the defence except engi and demo useless for a long time

01-26-2007, 02:55 PM	#8
o_rizzo Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Imo concaim should be learnable, atleast in tfc it's quite fun =D Maybe do 3-5 different "spinning" effects which comes up randomly? and people would have to learn to recognize every single different "spinning" !

01-26-2007, 03:04 PM	#9
o_rannibunny Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Argh, rizzo. That sounds like a Japanese console game, therefore I agree... But completely random is probably still the best choice...

01-26-2007, 03:09 PM	#10
o_mrmojo Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	yeah make it learnable

01-26-2007, 03:17 PM	#12
o_ghost Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I could go with that it could be learnable up to a point. However, I don't think anyone should ever get to the point where they can aim just as well conced as they can not conced. I won't mind if people can learn to aim slightly better while conced. I still think that the conc grenade should have some sort of an affect on people, since that's kinda the whole point of the grenade. If you want to make it so people can just learn to negate the whole conc effect then why not just turn it into some type of medic/scout jump assistant...since that's basically all it's good for in clan matches in TFC now anyway.

01-26-2007, 03:20 PM	#14
o_mrmojo Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	make it harder to learn and thats good enough, or decrease how long the effect lasts if its random

01-26-2007, 04:06 PM	#17
Lost Fear teh crowbar. Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oklahoma Gametype: CTF ftw, yeh Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	How many medics or scouts waste their concs on an O run? None. It will add a whole new strategy to explore. And you know what counters a fast running scout? A hard hitting pyro. Even conced, the splash from the IC is mean, get anywhere near them and they're toast. And since the scout's caltrops are actually somewhat useful now, I think its pretty even. Conc those bastards, toss a pack of caltrops in front of them and hop like a mofo out, if you can make it past the fatty, that is. The concview hasn't been even the slightest of an issue during our playtests. __________________ Do what you want cuz a pirate is free! You are a pirate!

01-26-2007, 05:35 PM	#18
o_soundman Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Norfolk, NE Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If you get conced does it actually change your aim? Or is it like TFC now, meaning if you don't move your mouse (after you are conced) you are still shooting at the exact same thing you were shooting before conced?

01-26-2007, 05:38 PM	#19
Lost Fear teh crowbar. Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oklahoma Gametype: CTF ftw, yeh Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	Yep, you still shoot exactly where you were pointing, its just moving it that screws you up. __________________ Do what you want cuz a pirate is free! You are a pirate!

01-26-2007, 05:47 PM	#20
o_sta_sirtiger Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas, THE USA!!! Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Uh, I completely agree with Rizzo, it shouldn't be completely random. Instead, make it learnable, but with different patters to learn. This way, the gamer will need to recognize which pattern of the (x) is it and know what to do. Completely random just screws it.

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