TFC Source v. FF poll

[GenghisTron]

Also, that's not to say I don't enjoy 4v4 CTF, because it definitely is fun, but I regard it more like an arcade game, rather than being 'fun' or employing 'teamwork'. Not to mention, one can only play the same 5 CTF maps 100 times over and get bored. Especially when there's so many awesome CTF maps that are far too commonly overlooked.

[moosh]

Whatever makes FF good.

[KubeDawg]

I meant to vote for ff's current direction. I loved TFC, but I'd be seriously disappointed if TFC:Source was released with no new features except for an updated graphics engine.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by D-Moone

can't compare, havent played tfc so i choose FF

It's $4.99..... there are still a few populated servers out there. Drippy's 2fort is my main hangout for that game.

As for FF, it's not meant to be a TFC remake, but that could be a good place to start. Jump pads, double-jumping, trimping, and easy b-hop is a good add, but not at the sacrifice of balance.

[moosh]

This poll should have been established after 2.5 because non-beta testers have no idea what's new in 2.5 and it kinda fucks up the vote.

[Rutabeggar]

Originally Posted by moosh

This poll should have been established after 2.5 because non-beta testers have no idea what's new in 2.5 and it kinda fucks up the vote.

Yea, but shouldn't non-beta testers have some inkling of what's going on? Or should the community just wander around hoping some sort of progress is being made...yea...that sounds better I guess...

[zE]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

Yea, but shouldn't non-beta testers have some inkling of what's going on? Or should the community just wander around hoping some sort of progress is being made...yea...that sounds better I guess...

+1

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by Iggy

As for FF, it's not meant to be a TFC remake, but that could be a good place to start. Jump pads, double-jumping, trimping, and easy b-hop is a good add, but not at the sacrifice of balance.

This is pretty much my exact attitude as well.

[Crazycarl]

Nobody really knows what's going to be in 2.5. There's a lot of experimental stuff in the beta that probably won't make it in.

But I will say our goals are:

• movement-based offense
• a defined role for all classes--all classes are useful
• less spam, more tactical defensive tools
• less confusion, more intuitive mechanics
• fewer one-shot kills and unavoidable kills
• fast pace--not a lot of "downtime"
• de-emphasize long-range combat

[reaper18]

Originally Posted by Rutabeggar

Yea, but shouldn't non-beta testers have some inkling of what's going on? Or should the community just wander around hoping some sort of progress is being made...yea...that sounds better I guess...

this

[Bridget]

The development is secret because they want to keep things locked down to prevent rumors and mistakes and poor judgment and all of that. Unfortunately, when information gets out, that solution becomes counter-intuitive and just fuels what it tries to prevent. That's why I've suggested making the development more transparent by using a development blog (not the dev journals!) to keep the community informed, in place, in the know, as well as to address those rumors, misconceptions, and the like and actually sort them out instead of allowing them to cause destruction.

BUT ROFL BRI U NOT NO ANYTHING BOUT DEVELOPMENT STOOPID ^__^

[moosh]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Nobody really knows what's going to be in 2.5. There's a lot of experimental stuff in the beta that probably won't make it in.

But I will say our goals are:

• movement-based offense
• a defined role for all classes--all classes are useful
• less spam, more tactical defensive tools
• less confusion, more intuitive mechanics
• fewer one-shot kills and unavoidable kills
• fast pace--not a lot of "downtime"
• de-emphasize long-range combat

Sounds fantastic to me.

[Crazycarl]

Originally Posted by Bridget

The development is secret because they want to keep things locked down to prevent rumors and mistakes and poor judgment and all of that. Unfortunately, when information gets out, that solution becomes counter-intuitive and just fuels what it tries to prevent. That's why I've suggested making the development more transparent by using a development blog (not the dev journals!) to keep the community informed, in place, in the know, as well as to address those rumors, misconceptions, and the like and actually sort them out instead of allowing them to cause destruction.

BUT ROFL BRI U NOT NO ANYTHING BOUT DEVELOPMENT STOOPID ^__^

The dev journal pretty much is a blog. I'd like to write in it more, but I'd much rather use the forum. The conversational style suits me, and it is where the complaints/questions originate, after all.

[Raynian]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Nobody really knows what's going to be in 2.5. There's a lot of experimental stuff in the beta that probably won't make it in.

But I will say our goals are:

• movement-based offense
• a defined role for all classes--all classes are useful
• less spam, more tactical defensive tools
• less confusion, more intuitive mechanics
• fewer one-shot kills and unavoidable kills
• fast pace--not a lot of "downtime"
• de-emphasize long-range combat

Sounds terribly vague to me. You could at least have more "definite" changes in there - not that I'm saying you should know exactly what's going to change by now, but...a lot of those mean almost nothing. You could edit next to zilch and still say "we met all our goals!" Hell, this sounds like something a dev would say at the drawing board for any game.

Movement based O? Funny, I thought we had that already. I thought O was already TOO fast. I'd like more movement CONTROL being necessary, if that's what you're leaning towards.

Most classes DO have a defined role. Each weapon plays very differently. Maybe making D actually feel more like D by slowing them down some more, while buffing their weapons.

Less spam, great. How're you gonna manage this without removing grens (stupid) or making them worthless (also stupid)? Longer reloads on pipes/rockets would be a good step in the right direction, if they were made stronger/had more splash to compensate.

Less confusion - tutorials. We don't need to hold everybody's hand throughout the ENTIRE game. Also, there are tips! I guess everybody forgot about them once they were turned off. You get pop-ups telling you to support your engineers as they build SGs, or LOLOL SNIPER KILLED YOU, FUCK OFF AND STAY IN YOUR BASE.

Less oneshots - excellent. Fix the fucking sniper already. Blue pipes on scouts...I don't know how to remedy that, to be honest.

Fast pace - already have it. Too fast, in fact. Offense can get from base to base on any map in about 10 seconds, tops. (in 15 minutes, a medic can expect...40 runs or so? Scouts manage 50-60. Too many.)

Nerf long range combat - good. Now do it already.

But seriously, HOW is the dev team going to do all this? Give us numbers, ideas, something so the players can at least look forward to it, and give feedback.

[Crazycarl]

I was intentionally vague because the thread is about the game's direction. Some people stated that they didn't know where we wanted to take it. So I laid that out. I don't really want to go into specifics because it's SECRET, but also, because if I do, we'll start debating specific features without actually talking about direction.

Not all Offense is movement-based. Spy has no movement tools currently.

We have some classes that aren't strictly attackers or defenders. People will attack with demoman or sniper, defend with spy and pyro, and they don't know what's intended or best. I'm honestly fine with that, but some other devs want to make those classes more strictly defined.

There are other ways to stop players than filling a door with constant explosions. Use your imagination! For example, we gave the soldier a grenade that just popped enemies up into the air and stopped their forward momentum. The betas didn't like it; they still wanted something that could hold an area while reloading/resupplying. So we changed to something that still does that, but without filling the room with costly projectiles.

Tutorials are coming along nicely. A lot of the confusion is in the pace of the game, the amount of stuff that happens at once, the amount of information that's hidden from players, and a lot of obscure features that new players wouldn't even know about.

We already have the fast pace down, but we think that's a positive thing in general.

[zE]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

We have some classes that aren't strictly attackers or defenders. People will attack with demoman or sniper, defend with spy and pyro, and they don't know what's intended or best. I'm honestly fine with that, but some other devs want to make those classes more strictly defined.

I think ill hate 2.5 :< I just want to do whatever i want like in tfc x:

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

We have some classes that aren't strictly attackers or defenders. People will attack with demoman or sniper, defend with spy and pyro, and they don't know what's intended or best. I'm honestly fine with that, but some other devs want to make those classes more strictly defined.

I'm neutral on this, so long as they have function and the net result is a balance between offense and defense, instead of an obvious slant towards one.

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

There are other ways to stop players than filling a door with constant explosions. Use your imagination! For example, we gave the soldier a grenade that just popped enemies up into the air and stopped their forward momentum. The betas didn't like it; they still wanted something that could hold an area while reloading/resupplying. So we changed to something that still does that, but without filling the room with costly projectiles.

The jump pad gave O a clear advantage without giving D anything in return. I've suggested several times that engineers could maybe build a "slowing field" to deploy in areas or have outright destroyable barriers they could build (like sandbags) as possible counters to O's new movement abilities. At the time, there was so much denial that balance problems even existed, these were shot down or ignored. Maybe the atmosphere is more open to suggestions now.

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

We already have the fast pace down, but we think that's a positive thing in general.

There's nothing wrong with more speed as long as it doesn't sacrifice balance. 2.4 is the first (public) indicator in about 2 years of making ANY progress in this regard, but it still has a ways to go.

[Iggy]

I recently suggested a "zone alarm" buildable for the Engy... which is basicly what teleporters were used for by many TFC players.

So far, no one has said a word for or against it.

[toaster^]

ofcourse

[xks]

Better combination of the two, more emphasis on CTF and less emphasis on creating/maintaining useless new gametypes.

However, after focusing a lot on QLCTF, I don't see FF recovering to a level where I would give up the perfect balance and excellent gameplay that QLCTF provides. Not even TFC in it's prime would be able to do that.