Replace jump queue with auto-jump?

[TFCFan]

The whole "newbies dunno how to not hold W/forward!" is a bit of a meh thing~

I think we've all been there but overcome it at some point. Now in ANY game when I jump I don't hold down forward unless I really need to. Infact, I find it odd when I come across a game where you have to press forward to move forward in the air (ala Darkfall etc)

[GeoKill----->]

I know what you mean. It happens when I play l4d and I try to bhop, same with cod4

[Hammock]

Just because we can do it doesn't negate the fact it's a difficult thing to learn, and we're talking about beginners learning here, not 8th year vets going "meh that's soo incredibley easy it's not even worth mentioning" (that's elitist talk at its finest).

It's soo incredibley easy to spot the people that don't think outside their own field of vision, cause everything they have to say starts with "Since I can do it..."

Jump que is soo incredibley easy for even a beginner to learn, and we're talking about making it even easier with autojump. I'm not against the idea at all, but total gain for helping newbies will be minimal. But why should we ignore the other half of bhop where gains would be much higher for helping beginners if it could be fixed

[MightyLotu]

yeah, if you really want to help new players to learn how to bhop, you're not gonna do it with auto-jump, the "jumping" part of bhopping in ff is the easiest part of bhop because you auto-jump whenever you hold space.. how simple can it be
it's the strafing with the strafe keys and mouse without holding forward that's never been clear for new players

what ff needs is tutorials

[Paft]

How much auto jumps will help I don't know because these guys that didn't have the dedication to learn last time, will they have enough to learn this time?

So long as you know what Bunny Hopping is there is already enough material out there since TFC to train yourself if you're willing to.


It comes down to 4 reason why one can't bunny:

• Plain ignorance; not fussed about learning
• Casual gamer that plays a variety of many games therefore pointless learning

• Lazy
• The rarer haven't heard of Bunny Hopping folk

Auto jumps does take away the skill factor a little bit but because you are not tapping Space constantly you are less exhausted. As a result you can have more fun.

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by Paft

How much auto jumps will help I don't know because these guys that didn't have the dedication to learn last time, will they have enough to learn this time?

So long as you know what Bunny Hopping is there is already enough material out there since TFC to train yourself if you're willing to.


It comes down to 4 reason why one can't bunny:

• Plain ignorance; not fussed about learning
• Casual gamer that plays a variety of many games therefore pointless learning

• Lazy
• The rarer haven't heard of Bunny Hopping folk

Auto jumps does take away the skill factor a little bit but because you are not tapping Space constantly you are less exhausted. As a result you can have more fun.

Actually another reason for not being able to learn bhop is their key setups. Some people don't use the strafe keys, and just teaching them to strafe can be an adventure in itself

[MonoXideAtWork]

Originally Posted by Paft

How much auto jumps will help I don't know because these guys that didn't have the dedication to learn last time, will they have enough to learn this time?

So long as you know what Bunny Hopping is there is already enough material out there since TFC to train yourself if you're willing to.


It comes down to 4 reason why one can't bunny:

• Plain ignorance; not fussed about learning
• Casual gamer that plays a variety of many games therefore pointless learning

• Lazy
• The rarer haven't heard of Bunny Hopping folk

Auto jumps does take away the skill factor a little bit but because you are not tapping Space constantly you are less exhausted. As a result you can have more fun.

For the sake of example, I will demonstrate a lineage of popular games that do not use Bunnyhopping: (these were pulled from IGN's "best of: as well as personal experience"

• Unreal Tournament (1999)
  Deux Ex (2001)
  Counter-Strike 1.3 (2001)
  Unreal Tournament 2003 (2002)
  Unreal Tournament 2k4 (2004)
  F.E.A.R (2005)
  Counter-Strike: Source (2006)
  BioShock & Call of Duty 4 (2007)
  Team Fortress 2, Unreal Tournament 3 & Left 4 Dead (200

Now, the games over the last decade that have featured incremental speed increases as advanced movement, including bunnyhopping.

• Quake 1 (1996) uncapped bunnyhopping, no jump queue
  Quake 2 (199 uncapped strafejumping, no jump queue
  Quake 3 & mods(1999) uncapped strafe jumping, with jump queue
  Half-Life & mods, excluding counter-strike. (1999)
  Quake 3: CPMA (2002?) softcapped Strafe Jumping and Bunnyhopping
  Unreal tournament 2004: Pro movement mod: featured softcapped bunnyhopping
  Warsow (2005) softcapped strafe jumping and bunnyhopping.
  Fortress-Forever: Softcapped bunnyhopping.

Please feel free to correct me if I have missed a game on the second list.

So long as you know what Bunny Hopping is there is already enough material out there since TFC to train yourself if you're willing to.

That is very true, you just have to have the desire to perform research in order to play a game you're interested in.

I don't know about you, but if I have to pick up a pencil during any part of a game, I am turning it off and either playing something else, or working. Asking a player to "go to the library of the internets" and research something he may have never heard about, just in order keep up with his team, have hope of catching any but the slowest of classes, or capturing a flag, is a little ridiculous in my opinion.

these guys that didn't have the dedication to learn last time, will they have enough to learn this time?

You are assuming that players that don't know, only do so because they lack dedication, this is incorrect.

The number of players that have not been introduced to this movement is not a small number as you suggest, considering the last game that one could purchase off the shelf that featured bunnyhopping was created in 1999. The only other instances between Half-Life and Fortress Forever, have been two freely distributed mods of the quake engine, produced at least five years ago!

You guys may feel that TFC is the shit. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but a whole generation of gamers have never experienced it, and most likely would not go back to experience it now. If we want the player base to grow, we must dismiss TFC, and focus on FORTRESS-FOREVER.

[Mikael_hs]

I think the conjunction of tutorial and auto-jumping will be helpful. Perhaps a skillsavi - I know at least one is in the making - as an included feature of the menu would spur new players to go the extra mile, learn the game, and get HOOKED?

Any feature of the game that doesn't lessen the gap between really skilled and moderately skilled (at least not too much) BUT lessens the gap between "noob" and moderately skilled is A OK by me! I think both auto-jumping, ingame tutorials and some cool ingame-footage (to create interest and thus actually learn whatever ingame tutorial is avail. I don't see myself comming to a game for the first time and learning a lot of tutorials just for the sake of it; there has to be some UNDERSTANDING beforehand of why I want to make the trouble of learning) all can contribute to this.

[squeek.]

Another bonus for autojump is that it takes out an entire "stage" from the training/tutorial, and makes everything a whole lot easier to explain (double jumping, etc).

[MonoXideAtWork]

I saw that tutorial, that section wasn't much, quit lying. =)

j/p

[Paft]

Counter strike 1.6 + Source apparently you can bhop to an extent, just no real speed gain. Never played them so wouldn't know. HL2/DM you apparently can too. Though I think that is though a macro.

YouTube

YouTube

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2235315/elusive/

[MonoXideAtWork]

in counter-strike it was accomplished with server side plugins, I'm sure hlstriker knows a little about this.

In versions up until 1.3, it was a residual left over from half-life, accompanied with speedgain.

Notice, my definition of bunnyhop is:

Incremental speed gain used by airstrafing each jump.

The speed gain is essential.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Paft

Auto jumps does take away the skill factor a little bit but because you are not tapping Space constantly you are less exhausted. As a result you can have more fun.

Yeah, holding and releasing a mouse button takes skill. If you're getting exhausted from bunny hopping.. wow. I play Fortress Forever nearly all day long (nerd), play Scout or Medic as main, and only use bhop as my method of movement. Not once does my arm, wrist, or hand ache, not once am I 'exhausted'. How can you become exhausted from moving a mouse and/or hitting a button?

Auto-jump won't turn beginners into BHOP gods, but it does eliminate some extra work. Now they don't have to focus on strafe, mouse movement, jump. It's simply strafe, mouse movement. Yet again, it doesn't negatively affect the game, so I don't see what some of the whining is about. I'm not a fan of this "omg skill, omg skill, this takes skill, this is pro, pro, pro, skill, I'm so good, I don't care for beginners, let them suffer, pro, skill" portion of the community. To mildly para-phrase someone on YouTube:

"Fortress Forever? Amazing game, but let us not forget the terrible community, where everyone bickers and argues to one another about how they are better and more skilled/have more skill."

To be painfully honest, all the negative but constructive and fair criticisms of Fortress Forever list elitism and the arrogant community as its downfall. Though, fortunately, there's a glimmer of hope as some of them I've seen mention (paraphrase): "Honest, kind players who are actually willing to stop what they're doing in game to teach you how do something."

Conclusion: Too many dickheads who think they're pro and are willing to retain this delusional title by denying beginners an easier way to play the game, no matter what, will eventually – if things do not change – lead to the end of Fortress Forever.

[Paft]

Bridget..I thought you were for auto-jump..!?! :P I said that shit just to show I was for the suggestion.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Paft

Bridget..I thought you were for auto-jump..!?! :P I said that shit just to show I was for the suggestion.

Er, must have taken it out of context or something.
Also, wasn't including you when I raged at the arrogant FF community.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by MonoXideAtWork

I saw that tutorial, that section wasn't much, quit lying. =)

j/p

I wasn't talking about the difficulty of the stage itself (or the making of it), just the necessity of it. It shouldn't have to be there, and it doesn't have to be with auto-jump. Therefore, hooray.

[MonoXideAtWork]

Therefore, hooray.

QFT. <3

[FooL]

booo keep it as it is

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by FooL

booo keep it as it is

Are you against the idea of it being optional, to help new players?
Apparently, you'll be able to toggle it on or off in the options.

[MightyLotu]

btw, with tutorials i mean built-in, in-game tutorials
a la warsow style