The "Bitch About Updates" Thread.

[chilledsanity]

'once its on you, its on you' needs to go

Actually, this is exactly what it needs for inside its selected range (I realize you're talking about extended range). Unless the sg acquires a new target, there should be a few seconds where you can't simply run back behind a post for it to lose all memory of you.

Are you into voice acting? If so, apply for the dev team

Well hell, I could do that, I have a range of voices I can do, moreso than I show in my videos. I love the idea of a gruff-sounding bastard for the engineer, like he's an auto mechanic or something. Would the voiceovers be replacing the existing shouts? If so, I think the existing ones are superb, would they just be moved to one class like solider or hwguy?

I also have to, yet again, disagree with the critique of the FF Medic's healing abilities. They're better than TFC's, or any other incarnation, as far as I'm concerned.

The problem with packs is that it's a pain to heal people if you're running in the direction they are, the packs will throw more slowly than you can run. Also it can rely on your teammate taking time out to run around collecting packs. The hit detection for the melee-heal is a joke compared to TFC and the packs don't have the ease of use of something like TF2. I think dropping packs is useful as an extra ability, but it sucks as a mainstay for trying to heal team members.

[pF]

..Want a tissue..? Jesus.

[Constipated_Zombie]

Well then, 2 tissues is a must!

[GambiT]

dude, you need to shrink that avatar down a bit...

[chilledsanity]

If this next patch is bullshit, i'm going to recommend to anyone to not play FF. And i'm going to go out of my way to do it. Because this is bullshit.

Well I'm really encouraged. I can't wait for the bots and the sg nerf was my biggest fear from the changes and it sounds like they're fixing that. Exactly what bullshit are you anticipating?

[GambiT]

well then, my apologies...

[Gwarsbane]

Originally Posted by mrblowtatoes

To bad no one here knows the definition of trolling, and instead chooses to replace it with "expressing a view the devs and fanbois want to keep hidden"

Atleast someone who agrees has the courage to say something.

If this next patch is bullshit, i'm going to recommend to anyone to not play FF. And i'm going to go out of my way to do it. Because this is bullshit.

Yes because a Troll would never go out of his way to make people stop doing something or cause trouble.


ANYWAYS...


The changes that have been mentioned here sound like a change in the right direction.

One of the other things I hope that have changed is that you can kill the jump pad and that if you walk over it my mistake it just doesn't send you flying. That you have to actively use it. And that scouts have less concs on them or that they are a little less powerful cause if you get anyone with any kind of conc skill, they can pretty much get past most defense.

I've stuck with the game this long I don't see any reason for anyone to give it up as long as they enjoy it even if they find some problems with it.

[Gwarsbane]

Originally Posted by mrblowtatoes

I'm hearing the snipers are going to be even more useless now.

Though, i will admit, alot of what they listed a few posts up i like. Lol.

My biggest thing is the HWGUy and Sniper, my seconds and 3rd favorite classes are pretty much useless, often they are useless in pub play aswell. And i see no other reason why they have the changes they have [compared to what they were in tfc] other than because of clanners complaining.

you mean less charge time and tweaked damaged? hows that make it more useless? They never said the damage was going down or up, just tweaked. To me that sounds like it got bumped up a little.

[GeoKill----->]

Yes less charge time

[Hammock]

One of my biggest beefs with AvD maps is the scout. Setting up a jump pad for offense is amazingly usefull for everyone on his team and the scout isn't useless since he can still push the flag up.

But on defense setting up one helps the D out in that respect but the scout is soo absolutely useless for anything else other than being an annoying mosquito to O it can be considered a wasted class. Atleast scout D in tfc had caltrops he could really annoy the hell out of people with. Or even his radar was usefull for spotting spys.

There isn't really a balance between that class for O and D on AvD maps because of this.

[squeek.]

I really wish you could ban people from a thread. That would be magnificent.

Mrblowtatoes, whoever you are getting your "inside info" from, do me the favor and kick them in the head. They are wrong. Dead wrong. About everything they say. Every single thing.

Now, could we get back to RELEASE trains and quote pyramids, please?

EDIT: Hammock, scout is a purely offense class and is intended as such. It might even be worth disabling scout on defense on AvD maps (something GreenMushy is doing for his AvD maps).

[Desyphur]

Originally Posted by mrblowtatoes

Fe Fi Fo Fiddly Fum
All the Devs are really Dumb
Patch is what we really want!
Please don't make us beg and front!

{I'm Bitching about the updates}

Fixed.

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by squeek.

EDIT: Hammock, scout is a purely offense class and is intended as such. It might even be worth disabling scout on defense on AvD maps (something GreenMushy is doing for his AvD maps).

This doesn't make sense though... why should the jump pad exponentially help offense, and not help D at all?

On larger OvD maps offense can afford to have 2-3 scouts with 2-3 jump pads, and since scout isn't a defensive class they're stuck to running the entire LONG distance to where they need to defend? Palmero for example is such a long run for defence to move up, they too can benefit from a jump pad but loose out cause the scout can't do anything else, whereas offense can have 3 sequential jump pads blasting the team's heavier classes forward while still being able to flag push.

Atleast in TFC the teleporter system was balanced in the way that both O and D could gain equal opportunities for them to be usefull. This is just loose loose for Defense with these jump pads, and AvD maps are soo painfully unbalanced because of this the only way D ever wins is if they got a stacked team.

And limiting a particular class for certain teams on some maps just reaks of unbalance issues and dictating on how people "should" play instead of letting them play the way they want to.

Remove all scouts, remove no scouts, but to remove one team's scouts and not anothers has got nothing to do with an equal game so much as a pathetic attempt to work around inadequacies of classes (except for maps like hunted where there's more of a theme to that one).

*Edit* You would be better off removing jump pads from AvD maps straight across the board than removing scouts for one team and not another. Atleast then each team is equal.

[Lynus]

Originally Posted by Gator-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynus
fix maps to prevent engies from building in spawn areas

That's the mapper's fault for not creating a nobuild ff script trigger entity.

So, its the players who have to suffer being stuck and taking a score penalty by suiciding only to respawn in same spot to be physically stuck inside of an SG again? Maybe make the SG's have a 'pass-through' feature to allow walking through them.

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Well hell, I could do that, I have a range of voices I can do, moreso than I show in my videos. I love the idea of a gruff-sounding bastard for the engineer, like he's an auto mechanic or something. Would the voiceovers be replacing the existing shouts? If so, I think the existing ones are superb, would they just be moved to one class like solider or hwguy?

I agree, the current voice overs are cool. More is always(usually)better though.

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

The problem with packs is that it's a pain to heal people if you're running in the direction they are, the packs will throw more slowly than you can run. Also it can rely on your teammate taking time out to run around collecting packs. The hit detection for the melee-heal is a joke compared to TFC and the packs don't have the ease of use of something like TF2. I think dropping packs is useful as an extra ability, but it sucks as a mainstay for trying to heal team members.

I agree, but more realistic - dont think they would be able to get tossed at posx, defined by posy, predetermined by speed(or somethin like that)

Originally Posted by Gator-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynus
add voiceovers for diff classes

Are you into voice acting? If so, apply for the dev team

My buddy has a studio - I'm sure I could do it. At least for the medic

Originally Posted by Geokill----->

The only map problem I see with sgs in spawns is dev_2fort, which i heard alot of complains last night, so I'm going to end up removing it

Try Monkey, Dropdown, Palermo... I'm sure there's more. Any spawn that allows building could be potentially exploited, but w.e I say turn Friendly Fire on, lets go..


On a softer note, Jump pads = lame. If you cant conc jump, learn... If you cant rocket jump, Learn.

If you are heavy weapons, ROFL AT YOU! FATASS!!!

[Firefox11]

Jesus. It's that hard to spell "Palermo"? How's that everyone always says "palmero this palmero that". =D

Originally Posted by mrblowtatoes

Why does a sniper need charge up?

Because scope in - headshot and instant kill - repeat would make hackers and high accuracy players monsters, assuming a headshot means instant kill. If it doesn't, then the Sniper would be pointless since he would lack killing power. If the reward for a headshot is leaving the target alive, you might as well play Demo, or something.

Charge time is here to balance the power the Sniper has.

Originally Posted by Hammock

Stuff about the jump pad

The mancannon has broke AvD, right. It's up to dev's to fix that, by making them unusable for the other team so they act like teleporters, and making them destroyable or even have a cooldown timer for each use to help the defense (my opinion, of course).

I don't think they should be allowed only in one style of play, they just need tweaking.

[chilledsanity]

The mancannon has broke AvD, right.

No, it's a lot of things besides that:
-Pyro hovering
-increased speeds
-defensive engi's no longer have enough metal to build a sg after spawning
-demoman has less range (this one's a mixed bag)
-hwguy is less effective now
-walks to the front line for D can be ludicrous on some levels.

I actually think the jumppad is pretty cool, but to skew things so much in favor of O and not give D anything to compensate is what breaks it. I love new features and abilities, but AvD has been getting broken in the process.

Charge time is here to balance the power the Sniper has.

Well the problem is that everyone is moving faster in 2.1 and the sniper does less damage. What about making the charge more instant? By this I mean when I hold down the fire button, there's a short delay, THEN I start charging. It would be more satisfying to simply charge as soon as you press the button. Also would it be possible to implement something like a 2 tap method the way it has with grenades? That would make sniper much more enjoyable for me.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Hammock

And limiting a particular class for certain teams on some maps just reaks of unbalance issues and dictating on how people "should" play instead of letting them play the way they want to.

Remove all scouts, remove no scouts, but to remove one team's scouts and not anothers has got nothing to do with an equal game so much as a pathetic attempt to work around inadequacies of classes (except for maps like hunted where there's more of a theme to that one).

Hmmm? I thought the strength of this game was that different classes fill different roles? Scout is offense. Offense, offense, and some more offense. He has no place on defense. That is the definition of the scout. That isn't "unbalanced", that is the definition of a Team Fortress game as I understand it.

I agree that the D spawns too far back on palermo. That is a map flaw, and a jump pad wouldn't help the D there at all. They spawn WAAAAY too far back. I'll try to get this fixed.

EDIT: Chilled, again, that entire list is being addressed in this patch (besides pyro hovering, but sniper and hw are more effective so that should balance it out).

[chilledsanity]

EDIT: Chilled, again, that entire list is being addressed in this patch (besides pyro hovering, but sniper and hw are more effective so that should balance it out).

Awesome, 2.1 is sounding like a godsend then. I was only reiterating it because of comments other people made.

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by squeek.

Hmmm? I thought the strength of this game was that different classes fill different roles? Scout is offense. Offense, offense, and some more offense. He has no place on defense. That is the definition of the scout. That isn't "unbalanced", that is the definition of a Team Fortress game as I understand it.

It is unbalanced when the feature of the scout gives exponential gains to one side, than it does to the other. Yes the scout is offense, his jump pad multiplys the entire team's strength's while still contributing to his goal. It can give similar gains to the defense but at the cost of a completely useless player.

So defense opts not to run a scout. So now defense is up against a team of offense than can travel 3+ times faster while gaining nothing in return on their side.

And your solution is to remove the scout from defense just to limit the potentially useless class. Now you're telling people how to play, so what if someone wants to be useless, it should still be his choice. And here I thought leagues were the only place to be told "how to play"

[Credge]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I actually think the jumppad is pretty cool, but to skew things so much in favor of O and not give D anything to compensate is what breaks it. I love new features and abilities, but AvD has been getting broken in the process.

To be honest, I think the jump pad was a poorly tested and poorly implemented way of adding new content (this seemed to be a big issue post 2.0 for some reason) while trying to fix the core issue for offense at the time, which was speed. It was nothing but a gimmick and it simply detracts from the game.

The biggest issue, though, is that the defense can not use it to any advantage. In TFC, the engineers teleporter could be used for both O and D. There was always balance.

To be fair, the jump pad tried its hardest to kill two birds with one stone but just didn't do it. It caused more problems than it attempted to solve without actually fixing any of the issues.