SDK bugs

o_pizzahut · 05-29-2005, 01:01 PM

Just saw this old news on WF2 front page, thought it might be of interest for the coders:

Quote:

There is a significant bug with the platform lifts which is due to problems with the SDK. So once again, I get to spend time debugging the SDK rather than WF2 itself. Argh.

There are 2 bugs that I want to fix before going to the beta stage. The first is the platform bug which causes the platforms to move in a very jerky fashion. The original platforms in the SDK didn't work at all, but when I did get them to go, they move rather badly. The second bug is the viewmodel animation bug which causes the viewmodels to skip and jump around in their animation sequences. Myself and others have sent notes to Valve about this, but to my knowledge nothing has been done about it. So it looks like even more time will be spent debugging the SDK yet again. Overall, I think about 2/3 of my coding time is spent chasing problems in the SDK right now.

o_rebo · 05-30-2005, 10:06 AM

Thanks for the info pizzahut

o_donny · 05-30-2005, 04:19 PM

Wow there is hell-of-a-lot TF mods out there

FF wins

Jiggles · 05-30-2005, 05:53 PM

Man, Valve loves their elevator bugs

o_elvis2049 · 05-30-2005, 08:04 PM

rofl

o_nuk3m · 05-30-2005, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Man, Valve loves their elevator bugs

lol

o_spud · 05-31-2005, 03:37 PM

Viewmodel bug is a real problem at the moment since you can't have a 3rd Person view mode...

Jeez come on valve!

o_travis dane · 05-31-2005, 05:14 PM

Pfff, at times like these you wonder wether or not it's a good thing FortressForever is using HL2. Buggy netcode\hitboxes, terrible performance, loaded with bugs, I mean really, HL2 was put together by amateurs. All HL2 really has going for it is the player-base.

o_robg · 06-02-2005, 08:15 AM

Quote:

HL2 was put together by amateurs

Feel free to find some professionals to make a better game then

Defrag · 06-02-2005, 12:23 PM

HL2 is an astoundingly good game. Creatively, valve is an awesome developer. They don't exactly compare to id et al when it comes to making games that are relatively bug free, though.

Travis do you like anything? I can't really remember you making any positive posts about anything :P

o_donny · 06-02-2005, 01:00 PM

HL1 was pretty stable. Hl2 keeps crashing to me sometimes.

Maby I should re-install all and go trough all the steam shit again :P

o_voipme · 06-02-2005, 01:36 PM

Donny, try doing a cache verification. Look at my post at the bottom for the links.

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/v...ghlight=verify

o_travis dane · 06-02-2005, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defrag

HL2 is an astoundingly good game. Creatively, valve is an awesome developer. They don't exactly compare to id et al when it comes to making games that are relatively bug free, though.

Travis do you like anything? I can't really remember you making any positive posts about anything :P

Pffft, I regularly post how magnificent a person I am, so you're way off there

.

VALVe really just haven't produced any game that succeeds to run well. Heck, they've released but two games so far, and one of them ran on another companie's engine. They just haven't proven themselfs to get the most out of a computer, like id-software repeatedly does. And they pretty much proven themselfs incapable once again with the monstrosity called 'Steam'.

As for creativity, well, HL1 was decent enough I suppose. HL2 had some okay artwork, but nothing fancy. The game that really impressed me with it's artwork was American McGee's Alice. Absolutely smashing. I have yet to see another game create such an enormously immersive enviroment as Alice did. Honestly, most underrated game ever.

Jiggles · 06-02-2005, 06:47 PM

Eh, I don't think you're giving HL1/2 enough credit. Both were/are very creative games - that don't rely on the same lame gameplay tactic over and over. (like D3 did)

Heck, HL2 runs better than D3 on my machine, and I feel it also looks better. ID went normal-map crazy with D3, and as a result, it looked at times quite artifical. Paticularly their characters. HL2's more subtle use of normal maps made their characters look far superior, in my opinion.

ID certainly has some great coders that know how to make a stable engine - that has always been its strength. But comparing other game companies to ID is unfair in this respect. When you compare HL2 to other companies' engines, it really is quite stable.

Steam itself isn't too bad considering that Valve is trying to do something pretty pioneering with it. Still, I feel they bit off a bit more than they can chew with it, and I feel Valve should work more on games, rather than Steam. Hell, the damn friends list still doesn't work. Valve should have contracted another company to create Steam - hell, buy X-fire or something.

Alice did have some great artwork and immersive environments. Course, it was done on the Quake 3 engine, so they didn't have to worry about the engine. While I felt that Alice had a great artistic vision, I felt the gameplay was a bit lacking in spots. Overall though, a good game.

o_travis dane · 06-02-2005, 07:01 PM

It's true that Doom3's mapping style differs a lot from HL2's, it's all a matter of opinion I guess. I'm just looking at the engine bit here though, Doom3 has it's own shortcomings when it comes to gameplay of course.

It's not just id that deserves some credit, the guys behind the Painkiller engine have showed some magnificant piece of engineering. The worlds look excellent, physics feel right and look great, and it manages to pull off a solid 100+ FPS constantly, with a shitload of monsters in a scene, with scenes being as large as entire docks.

I'm sure Steam was a landmark when it came to online-content, but as you pointed out yourself, it's shortcomings were sometimes quite horrible.

My bottom-line is, the game's engine is often overlooked in reviews and such, which in my opinion is a bad thing. FarCry has some great graphics, but it's engine is just rediculously unstable. I've managed to complete it, but that's it, I've never played it again. The load times, bad FPS, bugs, shite AI etc just put me off.

And I'm a bit sad about the fact the Painkiller mod scene never really got off (as far as I know), while HL2's scene is just booming. This while painkiller really had potential. It's what you call hyping I believe...

Defrag · 06-03-2005, 03:30 AM

Quote:

As for creativity, well, HL1 was decent enough I suppose. HL2 had some okay artwork, but nothing fancy.

Creativity doesn't just mean artwork or things that are viewable, I'm also talking about the game plotline and the angle of storytelling (telling the story as if you are the character was totally redefined with HL1, and done excellently in HL2), ground-breaking new features (speech system in HL2) and gameplay elements (extensive use of physics) and so forth.

I think the Doom3 engine is more technologically advanced (the lighting engine in Doom3 is astounding, a quantumn leap ahead of HL2's static lighting [dynamic = huge performance hit in HL2, so you can't really go nuts with it] and shadows that jump through walls and ceilings :P) but HL2, as a game, is eons better than Doom3. I uninstalled Doom3 half way through because it was just so God damn formulaic, boring and repetitive. I was gripped by HL2 (excluding the buggy section, which really did drag on too long) in every sense. Hell, I spent hours just playing with the physics and replaying sections I'd just completed to see whether I could kill the enemies in different ways with each weapon or using physics.

The main downsides with HL2, for me, were the long load times & stuttering (grrr) and the enemy AI. I could almost swear that I had a tougher time with the HL1 marines than I did with any of HL2's enemies. Maybe it's just my memory playing tricks on me. What I do know, though, is that the enemies in HL2 didn't seem to work together to kill me. They just ran around and died, single file. The only map where I really felt pressured was the prison section with the turrets, and that was probably just down to sheer numbers and the relentlessness of the attack.

Jiggles · 06-03-2005, 03:41 AM

A bit off topic, but why the hell does Quake Wars look so good. I mean, I know they only released 2 screenshots, and I know they're using some super mighty-morphin' technology to render the terrain, but even the character models look 100% better than the D3 ones.

I look at Quake 4 screens, (which frankly don't impress me) then I look at the QW shots, and I have trouble believing it's the same engine. Of course, Quake 4 is supposed to be released much sooner than QW, but honestly, computers aren't going to advance that much in a year.

trepid_jesse · 06-03-2005, 03:54 AM

I got your off-topic right here in my pants...

http://www.ensemblestudios.com/age3i...shot0-1600.jpg

Jiggles · 06-03-2005, 04:17 AM

Age of DX9 Water

o_kam · 06-03-2005, 04:19 AM

oh man quake world and quake wars will be sharing the same acronym now :/

06-02-2005, 12:23 PM	#10
Defrag Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Scotland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	HL2 is an astoundingly good game. Creatively, valve is an awesome developer. They don't exactly compare to id et al when it comes to making games that are relatively bug free, though. Travis do you like anything? I can't really remember you making any positive posts about anything :P __________________ Fortress Forever. Level Designer, Gameplay Dude and whatnot.

06-03-2005, 03:54 AM	#18
trepid_jesse Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I got your off-topic right here in my pants... http://www.ensemblestudios.com/age3i...shot0-1600.jpg __________________ Support FF: Trepid, what?

05-30-2005, 10:06 AM	#2
o_rebo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Thanks for the info pizzahut

05-30-2005, 04:19 PM	#3
o_donny Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Wow there is hell-of-a-lot TF mods out there FF wins

05-30-2005, 05:53 PM	#4
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Man, Valve loves their elevator bugs

05-30-2005, 08:04 PM	#5
o_elvis2049 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	rofl

05-31-2005, 03:37 PM	#7
o_spud Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Viewmodel bug is a real problem at the moment since you can't have a 3rd Person view mode... Jeez come on valve!

05-31-2005, 05:14 PM	#8
o_travis dane Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Down here Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Pfff, at times like these you wonder wether or not it's a good thing FortressForever is using HL2. Buggy netcode\hitboxes, terrible performance, loaded with bugs, I mean really, HL2 was put together by amateurs. All HL2 really has going for it is the player-base.

06-02-2005, 01:00 PM	#11
o_donny Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	HL1 was pretty stable. Hl2 keeps crashing to me sometimes. Maby I should re-install all and go trough all the steam shit again :P

06-02-2005, 01:36 PM	#12
o_voipme Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Work Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Donny, try doing a cache verification. Look at my post at the bottom for the links. http://forums.fortress-forever.com/v...ghlight=verify

06-02-2005, 06:47 PM	#14
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Eh, I don't think you're giving HL1/2 enough credit. Both were/are very creative games - that don't rely on the same lame gameplay tactic over and over. (like D3 did) Heck, HL2 runs better than D3 on my machine, and I feel it also looks better. ID went normal-map crazy with D3, and as a result, it looked at times quite artifical. Paticularly their characters. HL2's more subtle use of normal maps made their characters look far superior, in my opinion. ID certainly has some great coders that know how to make a stable engine - that has always been its strength. But comparing other game companies to ID is unfair in this respect. When you compare HL2 to other companies' engines, it really is quite stable. Steam itself isn't too bad considering that Valve is trying to do something pretty pioneering with it. Still, I feel they bit off a bit more than they can chew with it, and I feel Valve should work more on games, rather than Steam. Hell, the damn friends list still doesn't work. Valve should have contracted another company to create Steam - hell, buy X-fire or something. Alice did have some great artwork and immersive environments. Course, it was done on the Quake 3 engine, so they didn't have to worry about the engine. While I felt that Alice had a great artistic vision, I felt the gameplay was a bit lacking in spots. Overall though, a good game.

06-02-2005, 07:01 PM	#15
o_travis dane Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Down here Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	It's true that Doom3's mapping style differs a lot from HL2's, it's all a matter of opinion I guess. I'm just looking at the engine bit here though, Doom3 has it's own shortcomings when it comes to gameplay of course. It's not just id that deserves some credit, the guys behind the Painkiller engine have showed some magnificant piece of engineering. The worlds look excellent, physics feel right and look great, and it manages to pull off a solid 100+ FPS constantly, with a shitload of monsters in a scene, with scenes being as large as entire docks. I'm sure Steam was a landmark when it came to online-content, but as you pointed out yourself, it's shortcomings were sometimes quite horrible. My bottom-line is, the game's engine is often overlooked in reviews and such, which in my opinion is a bad thing. FarCry has some great graphics, but it's engine is just rediculously unstable. I've managed to complete it, but that's it, I've never played it again. The load times, bad FPS, bugs, shite AI etc just put me off. And I'm a bit sad about the fact the Painkiller mod scene never really got off (as far as I know), while HL2's scene is just booming. This while painkiller really had potential. It's what you call hyping I believe...

06-03-2005, 03:41 AM	#17
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	A bit off topic, but why the hell does Quake Wars look so good. I mean, I know they only released 2 screenshots, and I know they're using some super mighty-morphin' technology to render the terrain, but even the character models look 100% better than the D3 ones. I look at Quake 4 screens, (which frankly don't impress me) then I look at the QW shots, and I have trouble believing it's the same engine. Of course, Quake 4 is supposed to be released much sooner than QW, but honestly, computers aren't going to advance that much in a year.

06-03-2005, 04:17 AM	#19
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Age of DX9 Water

06-03-2005, 04:19 AM	#20
o_kam Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	oh man quake world and quake wars will be sharing the same acronym now :/

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