A question for Beta testers! - Page 6

o_heatz0r · 01-22-2007, 08:29 AM

The visual tagging thing just doesn't seem right. Maybe instead of the red boxed thing around the player model something could come up on the HUD showing the general direction of the person rather than a pin pint location vissible through walls etc.

o_gunslinger · 01-22-2007, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Because there are open areas that aren't the midmap.

Really? Do you think, like, maybe, that might be, like, WHY I FUCKING MENTIONED IT?

o_toffee · 01-22-2007, 08:58 AM

personally Im looking forward to seeing how useful it could be for an attacking sniper who can take out the front line defenders, or to be a front line defender.. would be cool seeing him able to actually contribute more directly to a CTF gameplay!

o_darksoul · 01-22-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IVaquaL

If I can throw my 2 cents I would make snipers immune to the wallhack tag bullet, otherwise that would essentially mark the death of sniper wars

bollocks

you're saying that one vs one sniper will result in going for the tag first and then the kill? i think not. shoot the fucker in the head and get it over with.

o_ivaqual · 01-22-2007, 09:32 AM

good point but i can still imagine many people tagwaiting the other sniper for the "power" of it and bugging the enemy.
also sometimes people will just miss the headshot and tag the enemy.

o_stephen · 01-22-2007, 11:06 AM

Anything that disrupts sniper wars is fine by me. Especially things that explode and maim them.

**mervaka** · 01-22-2007, 11:37 AM

well you're in for a disappointment then, Stephen.

IVaquaL: the range of the tagging system is shorter than that required for a sniperwar.

o_player · 01-22-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaberWolf

The reason they did it is to give the Sniper SOMETHING to bring him up and make him more valuable.

He already is a valuable class...

I would be happy if the dev team proved my opinion wrong, but as I see it now, it is essentially a wallhack.

If I were to slap a tagging system in TFC, Q3, Q3F, ETF, QWTF, I would have a considerable advantage over those that did not. And, looking at Fortress Forever, there are no significant gameplay changes that would make such a feature less effective than it would be in other TF games.

**mervaka** · 01-22-2007, 04:52 PM

he means value in CTF, working as part of a team. in TFC, this blatently doesn't happen, especially not in pubs.

and remember, theres a range, and that the guy has to be shot in the first place.

o_saberwolf · 01-22-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Player

He already is a valuable class...

I would be happy if the dev team proved my opinion wrong, but as I see it now, it is essentially a wallhack.

If I were to slap a tagging system in TFC, Q3, Q3F, ETF, QWTF, I would have a considerable advantage over those that did not. And, looking at Fortress Forever, there are no significant gameplay changes that would make such a feature less effective than it would be in other TF games.

Ok, so the sniper has wall hax....the engi can build SG's, and the spy can cloak. So, do these all have serious advantages over the other? No. And tbh, the sniper is not a very valuable class, I have never seen a Sniper in a gold match, unless the team just decided to give up and fuck around, same for pyro and spy actually. They were all given a little something to make thime more useful in real clan play. Pyro got a dmg boost, spy got cloak and sabatage, and sniper got wall hax...even though with the limited conditions, i still don't see it helping that much.

o_rizzo · 01-22-2007, 05:52 PM

http://koti.mbnet.fi/ftf/smj/scores/...nd_enclave.jpg

o_ghost · 01-22-2007, 06:19 PM

I think I can say that out of all the matches I have played in my 6 years of playing organized TFC I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've seen a sniper used. Most of the time it was to take out a hwguy in a water tunnel (well or tempest). I think 1 time a clan we played used a sniper on D for epicenter. Other than that the only times I have ever seen a sniper in organized play is when one team is just getting blown out of the water and somebody switches to it to goof off.

The fact remains that most maps just don't cater well to snipers. Most of the time it's just more effective to plop a soldier or a hwguy in a chokepoint rather than risk a sniper missing and in turn inflicting 0 damage to the enemy that got by.

Jiggles · 01-22-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rizzo

http://koti.mbnet.fi/ftf/smj/scores/...nd_enclave.jpg

I don't know about you, but I've played Enclave about 4 or 5 times total in clan matches.

Which is too bad, 'cuz that map rocks. Especially with uncapped bhopping

o_thepanther · 01-22-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rizzo

http://koti.mbnet.fi/ftf/smj/scores/...nd_enclave.jpg

rofl the HW died 1 time

o_darknight · 01-22-2007, 10:48 PM

A slow flashing "blip" would be kinda cool for the sniper tagging system. 'Cause when the blip fades for a second/two ... he could have gone anywhere. :X:X:X

**mervaka** · 01-22-2007, 11:48 PM

i'm pushing all sorts of ideas like that to the devs, i dunno whats hot and whats not with them though.

i recently put forward the idea of a one dimensional type radar that uses the same tagging data (and possibly to show teammates too), similar to OFP:

http://forum.ge/uploads/post-49-1148411702.jpg

but it got poopooed in irc because my conceptual art sucked.

Dospac · 01-23-2007, 12:19 AM

At one point(I think originally? don't remember) I suggested the intermittent pulse type of animation for the tag effect, mainly because there were issues with how smooth we could get the location effect. Basically, if the pulsing glyph animated over the interval we wanted the location to update, the effect would look seamless and also accomplish what Mervaka has recently suggested. We could go in that direction for balance reasons. Right now I haven't seen a case for needing to nerf the effect in that way though. Tweaking the duration and range, and notifying the player of their tag should be enough yo.

o_marchy · 01-23-2007, 07:21 AM

maybe I missed it, but how exactly does the Sniper tag the enemy. Does it have to actually be with the Sniper rifle. Or can they use that lame ass AR or nailgun? Please tell me it's the Sniper rifle only. And how long does it last exactly? Sorry trying to catch up with this thread.

Lost · 01-23-2007, 01:11 PM

The target has to be shot with the sniper rifle. The AR no longer has the infinite range it doesn in TFC either, so it won't be as lame but instead should be a useful last ditch defense weapon. Up close of course.

o_arsenalfc · 01-23-2007, 03:44 PM

what's conc, gren, and rj skimming like? can you maintain some speed for a while or is it fairly abrupt?

01-22-2007, 11:37 AM	#107
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	well you're in for a disappointment then, Stephen. IVaquaL: the range of the tagging system is shorter than that required for a sniperwar. __________________ Support FF:

01-22-2007, 04:52 PM	#109
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	he means value in CTF, working as part of a team. in TFC, this blatently doesn't happen, especially not in pubs. and remember, theres a range, and that the guy has to be shot in the first place. __________________ Support FF:

01-22-2007, 11:48 PM	#116
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	i'm pushing all sorts of ideas like that to the devs, i dunno whats hot and whats not with them though. i recently put forward the idea of a one dimensional type radar that uses the same tagging data (and possibly to show teammates too), similar to OFP: http://forum.ge/uploads/post-49-1148411702.jpg but it got poopooed in irc because my conceptual art sucked. __________________ Support FF:

01-23-2007, 01:11 PM	#119
Lost Fear teh crowbar. Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oklahoma Gametype: CTF ftw, yeh Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	The target has to be shot with the sniper rifle. The AR no longer has the infinite range it doesn in TFC either, so it won't be as lame but instead should be a useful last ditch defense weapon. Up close of course. __________________ Do what you want cuz a pirate is free! You are a pirate!

01-22-2007, 08:29 AM	#101
o_heatz0r Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The visual tagging thing just doesn't seem right. Maybe instead of the red boxed thing around the player model something could come up on the HUD showing the general direction of the person rather than a pin pint location vissible through walls etc.

01-22-2007, 08:58 AM	#103
o_toffee Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	personally Im looking forward to seeing how useful it could be for an attacking sniper who can take out the front line defenders, or to be a front line defender.. would be cool seeing him able to actually contribute more directly to a CTF gameplay!

01-22-2007, 09:32 AM	#105
o_ivaqual Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Europe, Front Yard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	good point but i can still imagine many people tagwaiting the other sniper for the "power" of it and bugging the enemy. also sometimes people will just miss the headshot and tag the enemy.

01-22-2007, 11:06 AM	#106
o_stephen Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ireland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Anything that disrupts sniper wars is fine by me. Especially things that explode and maim them.

01-22-2007, 05:52 PM	#111
o_rizzo Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	http://koti.mbnet.fi/ftf/smj/scores/...nd_enclave.jpg

01-22-2007, 06:19 PM	#112
o_ghost Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think I can say that out of all the matches I have played in my 6 years of playing organized TFC I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've seen a sniper used. Most of the time it was to take out a hwguy in a water tunnel (well or tempest). I think 1 time a clan we played used a sniper on D for epicenter. Other than that the only times I have ever seen a sniper in organized play is when one team is just getting blown out of the water and somebody switches to it to goof off. The fact remains that most maps just don't cater well to snipers. Most of the time it's just more effective to plop a soldier or a hwguy in a chokepoint rather than risk a sniper missing and in turn inflicting 0 damage to the enemy that got by.

01-22-2007, 10:48 PM	#115
o_darknight Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Yorkshire Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	A slow flashing "blip" would be kinda cool for the sniper tagging system. 'Cause when the blip fades for a second/two ... he could have gone anywhere. :X:X:X

01-23-2007, 12:19 AM	#117
Dospac Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	At one point(I think originally? don't remember) I suggested the intermittent pulse type of animation for the tag effect, mainly because there were issues with how smooth we could get the location effect. Basically, if the pulsing glyph animated over the interval we wanted the location to update, the effect would look seamless and also accomplish what Mervaka has recently suggested. We could go in that direction for balance reasons. Right now I haven't seen a case for needing to nerf the effect in that way though. Tweaking the duration and range, and notifying the player of their tag should be enough yo.

01-23-2007, 07:21 AM	#118
o_marchy Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	maybe I missed it, but how exactly does the Sniper tag the enemy. Does it have to actually be with the Sniper rifle. Or can they use that lame ass AR or nailgun? Please tell me it's the Sniper rifle only. And how long does it last exactly? Sorry trying to catch up with this thread.

01-23-2007, 03:44 PM	#120
o_arsenalfc Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	what's conc, gren, and rj skimming like? can you maintain some speed for a while or is it fairly abrupt?

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