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Old 06-17-2007, 06:23 AM   #1
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Flagrun Suggestions

So I'm pretty far along with the design work for Flagrun (sketches and layouts) and I have a good foothold for brushwork and theme so far.

The size is going to remain pretty much the same, and the theme will be middle eastern/desert in a de_dust kinda way. I've got a planned rode running through the town and I have some pretty interesting asthethic changes planned or implemented that don't alter the gameplay of the map at all.

However, I'm interested to know before I get nitty and gritty with further brushwork what the community would change about the map if they could.

Would anyone suggest the addition of an extra hallway anywhere? Or the removal of one? Stuff like that... I'm just trying to get an overall perspective about what the TFC population thought about the map and what they liked/disliked. Thanks!
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Old 06-17-2007, 06:59 AM   #2
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Hoo boy, flagrun... now THERE'S a map I have not played in a while...

Well shit... I gotta say, it would be nice to have like a sort of "flag indicator" (sort of like cap point indicator) in the spawn showing which flags are held by your team, the other team, or neutral.

And yeah... maybe somethin' cool for the neutral flags. The lockup idea in the previous one was alright but something better can be cooked up I am sure.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:06 AM   #3
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http://www.hlportal.de/images/conten...ls/flagrun.jpg
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:15 AM   #4
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EDIT: http://www.hlportal.de/?sec=tfc&site=levels#flagrun
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:48 AM   #5
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Make it not suck. Because the TFC version sucked.

I'm having a hard time putting my finger on just why that was though.
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezumi
Make it not suck. Because the TFC version sucked.

I'm having a hard time putting my finger on just why that was though.
The first spawn was too far from the base and the base was too far from the second cap. The whole map needs to be made smaller so the fighting is more intense and its more exciting with a lot less walking.
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by own3r
The first spawn was too far from the base and the base was too far from the second cap. The whole map needs to be made smaller so the fighting is more intense and its more exciting with a lot less walking.
What are you talking about?
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
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What are you talking about?
seconded

sure youre not confusing it with warpath own3r?
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Old 06-17-2007, 03:42 PM   #9
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I dont' necessarily agree with you Nezumi. The map was great (in my opinion, of course) and I hope its basic layout shouldn't change. Keep it the same - but of course, sourceify it my friend. Post some screenshots soon! My only suggestion would be for you to make an astonishing 3D skybox for it .
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Old 06-17-2007, 05:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
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seconded

sure youre not confusing it with warpath own3r?
whoops yeah could be right there, I always muddle the two up maybe because they are deserty and dull i dont know.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:43 PM   #11
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I think it really was too far apart though. It took forever to steal flags. D=
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:40 PM   #12
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give it a more cs_arabstreets sort of feel, and maybe mix it with cazbah sort of scenery, if you know what i mean?
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Old 06-18-2007, 01:17 AM   #13
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Yeah, the shape is pretty much going to stay the same give or take a few units here or there. And yeah I was thinking Casbahish but better. I really haven't gotten any negative opinions on any part of the map, so yeah the layout and scoring system will stay the same.
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:53 AM   #14
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I agree with the majority of posts here: flagrun is way too slow to play and needs to be sped up somehow. Perhaps making the hallways slightly wider, elevators faster, something.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:38 AM   #15
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I think putting in another route to the flagroom would help.
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Old 06-21-2007, 07:59 AM   #16
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From where? And what are other's opinions?
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:57 AM   #17
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Yea another route and generally make the map smaller in length its far far too big. You could make it smaller by simply reducing the second yard's size (that is the one in each team's base) and removing the bridge/making it smaller between FR and spawn.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:57 PM   #18
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aww come on its not that big
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Old 06-21-2007, 07:19 PM   #19
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I took the flagrun overview and sketched out a couple ideas. They don't make a whole buncha sense in an overview perspective, though, so I'll write them out.

The battlements should link back to the main base. This allows defense/snipers to get there more easily and eases offense going both directions.

I think if you just open up the back of it completely, or at least leave a decent-sized hall, that stretches all the way back to the back of the base, that would be perfect. Ramp it down at the end so it meets at the floor.

The hallway between the battlements and the neutral flag zone - the one at ground level - could be straightened out or made into two passages, just to allow more flow.

You could also add a third passage up at the corner (along the same wall as the neutral flag zone).

I've also opened up the flagroom on both ends and provided one balcony over the center where defense can set up SGs and shit, it'd probably be a good idea to extend it to the otherside as well via catwalks or what-have-you, but I'll leave that decision up to you.

Lastly, I added more walls - at an angle - to the midfield. They're arranged like a diamond with one vertical in the center, and plenty of open space between them. Just an idea, really.

Here's the sketch, in hopes that my explanation will make more sense of it.



You can use flagrun's existing ideas like chain fence, walls of boxes, etc. to block off areas and control flow for each possible entrance. This way you can create chokepoints and such so offense doesn't have full run of the base.
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Old 06-21-2007, 07:57 PM   #20
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That drawing is much appreciated. Although most of the stuff I'm finding a little too drastic in terms of layout for what I want essentially to be a remake. The great thing about Flagrun's gameplay is that it's the only map with it, so if the time comes that somebody wishes to create something a little closer to Circutitous's design, that option won't be one that has been overdone. However, here's a few things I might throw in to help ease some of your "But there are still problems with the map!"

But before: The map is designed around 4 flags. Not 1. It's entirely different. Don't think about it as CTF.

1. The "Stairwell" by the flagroom area is going to be vastly opened up, providing room for sg's spys to hide, anything really.
2. The hallway structure by the spawns is being widened a little, and hopefully made a little less confusing.
3. The way that the center tunnel is built in right now is such that another path can easily be added from there to the flag-building side of the yard. This can be determined after playtests... but right now if that was implemented, nobody would use the center entrance, and offense would be flying all over the place.
4. The team-open door to the flagroom building will remain team only, however, in place of a slow and problematic elevator, a stairwell will be added going up to the bridge.
5. The center bridge will probably have railings, but not the the side one.
6. A stairwell will be added to the balcony above the side tunnel entrance in the base yard. This will provide some offensive and defensive options. And I believe the more options the more exciting of a game you'll have.
7. Right now, and in the past, there has been 3 entrances to the enemy yard: 2 tunnels and 1 balcony spawn path. 2 offensive entrances to the flagroom building, 3 to the flagroom. If this is not enough, I'll add one.

Etc etc... I'm going to be more conservative with my layout as it's such a different map. Who here has really designed a map based around 4 flags such as this? We can't use CTF philosophy. So I'll take what I know works somewhat, test and it, and change from there.
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