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Old 03-06-2005, 10:37 AM   #1
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water

I dunno whats wrong with my map, but on my map aftershock water does not show its surface, instead it seems to have a nodraw face... very strange.. when i get inside the water it works fine. It looks normal in hammer too I've put water in other maps using cs:s too so im very confused why it doesnt work on this one map. If anyone knows what my problem might be, please help.
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Old 03-06-2005, 11:15 AM   #2
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I'm not too sure on this, but did you tie a cubemap to the water side of the brush :D?
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Old 03-06-2005, 04:47 PM   #3
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Theres a water tutorial on the source sdk reference notes. Thats where i learned to make water. BTW zorro, when are your new afterschock screenies coming Your map is looking great
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Old 03-06-2005, 09:53 PM   #4
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yah i know about water tutorials ive done them, water only doesnt work on my map... ive gotten it to work when i just create a new map and put water on it.. ill try the cubemap idea.. i have a cubemap its just not tied to anything.

im probibly not releasing any screens or anything untill im pretty much done now.. which will probibly be a couple weeks to a month.. i'll probibly put out a walkthrough avi at that time.
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Old 03-06-2005, 11:23 PM   #5
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to make water:

DO'S:

- Place brush in the shape you want to have it......try to keep it in a rectangle.
- Apply nodraw textures to the object on all sides.
- Apply a water texture to the TOP face, no other faces.
- Place and env_cubemap on the top of the water. Select Brush Faces: then click Pick. Then select the Faces you wish to have reflections on. (In waters case, just the top face ONLY)

DON'T:

- Tie to func_water, this will screw it all up, the only reason you would do this is to make the water be able to raise or lower, and it will be quite buggy, and env_cubemaps dont work on them i believe.
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Old 03-06-2005, 11:51 PM   #6
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did all that in the first... looked like this...



This is what i did, to show you all i know how to make water lol... like i said, ive done it on other maps its JUST THIS MAP.

I placed my brush, made it all no draw.. then applied a water texture to the top(the water texture from the hammer tutorial)... then i made an env_cubemap and picked the side of the top side of my water. Then compiled and thats what happened..

I also tried func_water after all that.. it looked better but still didnt work woth a shit.. If you look at it very far away it looks kind of staticy, kind of like it does when your in the water which is what this screen is..

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Old 03-07-2005, 05:54 AM   #7
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Oh noob (that was joke just wanted to sound like pro in this buissness)

Well you have leak in your map. Even tinyest hole in map will screw the whole water buissness. In one map I made I had to do it 50% again cause there was 1mm x 1mm hole in some point.

And in water only the part that is up will get water texture, everything else will be nodraw texture.
Then put water_lod_control (or what ever it is) and place it near the water :P
Then put env_cubemap in to the surface of the water and open it's propeties and there is a thing where you have to pic the surface. You have to pick the surface of your water.
Then it should work. But if it wont, you have leak in your map. Try to find it. If you dont find it, Im sorry but you have to do some part again

Hope that helped
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Old 03-07-2005, 06:08 AM   #8
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yah lol i just figured that out.. by cuting pieces of the map out and then seeing that when i enclosed that piece of the map in a box it worked im fixing leaks now, this is going to take a long long time, lol
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:52 AM   #9
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With water does it get screwed up if there is a leak anywhere in the map? Or is it anywhere near the water?
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Old 03-07-2005, 08:23 AM   #10
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Don't worry about water until you've fixed your leaks. Fixing a leak is fairly simple with a bit of practice -- check the HL2 SDK webpage. As a level designer, you should attempt to learn good practice from the very start. I know most people just want to make cool stuff and mess around with the editor, but it really cannot be stressed how important it is to fix leaks properly and build levels the correct way from the beginning

Read up on pointfiles for a start. The worst thing you can do to fix a leak is to place a box around your map. It will probably quadruple compile times and it'll also make your map ridiculously laggy
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Old 03-07-2005, 09:41 AM   #11
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yah ive been working on the leaks.. there are tons at where i first started the map and less at where I have just finished.. im sure my next map will be much much better then this one, at least in a more leakproof way..
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Old 03-07-2005, 11:58 AM   #12
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Tips regarding leaks for new mappers:
  1. A leak is simply when your world has a hole in it, and the compiler cannot tell between the outside (the void) and the inside (the world). If the void 'touches' an entity (an entity is something to do with the game world, like a spawn point, a light or pretty much anything that has special properties), then the map has leaked.

    I like to explain this using an analogy of a submarine. If the submarine has a hole in it, water gets in. If the submarine is flooded, then the water is both inside and outside so there is no difference between inside & outside, they are the same. This is analogous to a leaking map; the void is both inside and outside. The level designer must ensure the world is totally sealed from the void and the world hull is intact. If your map leaks, the compiler can't tell what is inside and outside. Your map cannot be properly compiled as a result.
  2. Never build basic brush geometry with a grid of less than 16 (the smaller the grid, the smaller the holes.. plus a grid with multiples of 8 is good for other reasons). This one is extremely important. I, and pretty much everyone, did the same thing when they learned to map. Everyone says to themselves "Hey I'll put the grid onto a snap setting of one or two units. This way, I'll get the best detail and most control!". WRONG. You'll get leaks, plus the bsp won't be as well-optimised as a map built using a grid of 8+. Other caveats include floor tiles and other textures not matching up without manipulation. I personally prefer to work with a 16 or 32 unit grid for this reason: floor tiles typically have tiling at 0, 32, 64 and 96 units. If your map dimensions are always a multiple of 32 (128 units wide corridor, 192 tall wall etc.) then they will always match up to textures in the best possible fashion. I rarely have to mess around with floor texture co-ordinates because they're usually already alligned!

    If you need to make the grid smaller to make some detailed parts of the map, do so. However, always return the grid to its previous settings afterwards. Use the [ and ] key to make the grid smaller and larger respectively. If you're not sure what size of grid you're using, look at the bottom right of the hammer interface.
  3. Never seal a leak by putting a large box around your level. This may seem like a good idea, but it will be both:
    A: Slow to compile, since every single surface on the OUTSIDE of your map's hull will need to be divided up, have its portals taken into account during the vis process (vis works out which parts of the map can see the others, so only the rough area being viewed by the player is rendered), lit by rad.. and so forth.
    B: Slow to render during play, since your map will have a much larger bsp tree, more surfaces to render (just because you can't see them, doesn't mean they're not being drawn - mat_wireframe 3 if you don't believe me) because the large box you put around the map will be getting drawn and so on. In short, don't do it or I will personally come to your house and smash your kneecaps with a cricket bat.
  4. Never use a func_detail or a prop to try and seal your map; they don't block vis and consequently can't seal the map. Only world brushes block vis.
  5. Never place a prop or model's origin outside the map. A prop that is outside your world will cause a leak (I.e. leaks aren't just caused by holes in your walls, func_areaportals are another cause of leaks if used improperly). You can tell where a prop's origin is by looking for the 'x' selection point inside its bounding box in the 2d windows. If a prop is 900 units high, and the prop's origin is at the bottom of the prop, it's safe for most of the upper portion of the prop to protrude into the void. If the origin is at the top and consequently placed in the void, it will cause your map to leak.
  6. Use a pointfile to track down your leak. After compiling and finding a leak, return to hammer and choose Map->Load Pointfile. Follow the thick red line that snakes around the outside of your map, then find the point at which the line intersects with an entity, then trace the line backwards until you see where it entered your map's inner area. The hole through which it entered is your leak. If the line doesn't enter your map, you have an alternate cause of leak (probably an entity in the void).
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Old 03-07-2005, 12:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defrag
Tips regarding leaks for new mappers:
  1. Never build basic brush geometry with a grid of less than 16 (the smaller the grid, the smaller the holes.. plus a grid with multiples of 8 is good for other reasons). This one is extremely important. I, and pretty much everyone, did the same thing when they learned to map. Everyone says to themselves "Hey I'll put the grid onto a snap setting of one or two units. This way, I'll get the best detail and most control!". WRONG. You'll get leaks, plus the bsp won't be as well-optimised as a map built using a grid of 8+. Other caveats include floor tiles and other textures not matching up without manipulation. I personally prefer to work with a 16 or 32 unit grid for this reason: floor tiles typically have tiling at 0, 32, 64 and 96 units. If your map dimensions are always a multiple of 32 (128 units wide corridor, 192 tall wall etc.) then they will always match up to textures in the best possible fashion. I rarely have to mess around with floor texture co-ordinates because they're usually already alligned!

    If you need to make the grid smaller to make some detailed parts of the map, do so. However, always return the grid to its previous settings afterwards. Use the [ and ] key to make the grid smaller and larger respectively. If you're not sure what size of grid you're using, look at the bottom right of the hammer interface.
lol, this must have been my problem, because these leaks that the pointfile finds that are so small I can hardly tell its a leak... not only that but ive probibly spent 2 hours already patching it up and probibly have that much left, if not more(i have no idea how many leaks are actually in this map).. is there anyway to find out exactly how many leaks you have? it doesnt seem to tell you over 8.

anyways, thanks alot defrag.. this will help a ton in future maps. oh btw ive been working with snap grid on 1 im such a loser
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:09 PM   #14
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sorry for the double post but i just finished de-leaking my map(at least the pointfile leaks are fixed) and I was wondering if its normal that my compile time should go up by like 10x after my map is leak free? because now the vvis is taking way way way longer.
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:25 PM   #15
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When you have a leak vvis doesnt finish. It just spots the leak then says 'Fuck that Ill let vrad finish this bugger off'. It can take quite a while but if you want a playable framerate it is essential.
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Old 03-07-2005, 08:21 PM   #16
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yah portalflow has been going for almost an hour and is only at 4 and 3 dots
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:14 AM   #17
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I'm posting here cause it seemed most appropriate to my problem. My waters got the bug. The log file shows no leaks, but can my map still have leaks? I'm chasing a ghost... my water doesn't look right but the log looks fine... not sure how to fix something not broken.
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:40 AM   #18
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did you put a cubemap over it and type buildcubemaps in console?

do everything in this thread. water_lod_control, env_cubemap assigned, leaks, etc, etc.

Last edited by greenday5494; 03-12-2008 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 03-12-2008, 05:20 AM   #19
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I put in a cubemap, made a 6 sided no-draw brush with water on the top, by default hammer drops in a water_lod_control, log shows no leaks, and I'm not sure where to go next except maybe remaking the map from scratch. I also did a "check for problems" and nothing showed up. And I also surrounded the map in a skybox brush to make doubly sure I had no leaks.
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Old 03-12-2008, 06:11 AM   #20
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