<|187|> Clan Style Server!

[chilledsanity]

. Nobody is forced to join a server they don't like. If you find yourself on a server you dislike, type quit and find one that you do like.

At the time I was playing, that would mean all 4 of them. Do you understand the problem in how that discourages players that are likely to wander into the server simply because it has people playing, as opposed to dozens and dozens of empty ones?

Did the rules say no defensive pyros or did you ignore the rules?

I don't know, the rules weren't in the MOTD, it was a single sentence with the clan's name, saying clan rules were active, I don't believe a URL was listed, but I'm not 100%. So I guess it was assumed what the rules were. I didn't know the rules, I just had an idea of clan rules. I DID NOT know that defending myself when I'm actively being attacked was against the rules. Maybe this was a fluke or misunderstanding, but it left me with a really negative impression.

Also, you said you were kicked. Were you banned? Because, a kick is a warning. If you weren't banned you could have rejoined and learned the rules

It said kicked, so I'm guessing I wasn't banned. Regardless, it makes me not want to touch any server like this again if I can't defend myself when I'm being attacked, regardless of the situation.

I really hope more people play FF, because I'd hate to see it die over crap like this. It seems much more popular in the UK, so for me I pretty much have to play mid-day or early afternoon if I want to see a good game. At night here, all too often I face these options:

1. Plan on a server with a map I hate
2. Plan on a server with what I consider ludicrous rules
3. Play on an empty server
4. Say hell with FF and do something else.

[SME]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

At the time I was playing, that would mean all 4 of them. Do you understand the problem in how that discourages players that are likely to wander into the server simply because it has people playing, as opposed to dozens and dozens of empty ones?

I don't know, the rules weren't in the MOTD, it was a single sentence with the clan's name, saying clan rules were active, I don't believe a URL was listed, but I'm not 100%. So I guess it was assumed what the rules were. I didn't know the rules, I just had an idea of clan rules. I DID NOT know that defending myself when I'm actively being attacked was against the rules. Maybe this was a fluke or misunderstanding, but it left me with a really negative impression.

It said kicked, so I'm guessing I wasn't banned. Regardless, it makes me not want to touch any server like this again if I can't defend myself when I'm being attacked, regardless of the situation.

The number of servers with players is irrelevant, Even if that was the only server, quitting is better than breaking the rules.

Well there is a bug with the MOTD and not all server use mani adverts to broadcast so there could be some miscommunication happening. Since you don't know, I have to assume there was a no defensive pyro rule. Now, I'd never have such a rule on my servers but admins have every right to run their servers however they want, so that's the end of that.

Like I said, kick is just a warning, it's not even the most severe warning. You could have rejoined, checked the MOTD or asked what the rules were. Players have every right to choose not to join a server or to quit one they don't like but no player, imo, has the right to ignore rules just because they don't like them.

[magzy]

lol, I really dont see what all the whine is about. If you dont like the rules, dont join. Firstly, its the server admins choice as to what rules he wants to enforce. Secondly, like quite a few people have said, generally people who wear the [] clantag understand the other rules of the server and often makes admining easier. Thirdly, why moan so much? It really seems bizarre to me, like I have already said, it is up to the server admins what rules they want to enforce, personally, I would only ever join a server like this, as I do not enjoy playing FF half as much on random server without clanstyle rules, this is just my preferance. I dont go onto 2fort 24/7 servers and whine about them only playing 2fort, it is their choice if they want to do that, they obviously enjoy it more, so I just join other servers.

[SME]

Originally Posted by magzy

lol, I really dont see what all the whine is about. If you dont like the rules, dont join. Firstly, its the server admins choice as to what rules he wants to enforce. Secondly, like quite a few people have said, generally people who wear the [] clantag understand the other rules of the server and often makes admining easier. Thirdly, why moan so much? It really seems bizarre to me, like I have already said, it is up to the server admins what rules they want to enforce, personally, I would only ever join a server like this, as I do not enjoy playing FF half as much on random server without clanstyle rules, this is just my preferance. I dont go onto 2fort 24/7 servers and whine about them only playing 2fort, it is their choice if they want to do that, they obviously enjoy it more, so I just join other servers.

Again, logic and reason. It's really that simple.

[chilledsanity]

The number of servers with players is irrelevant, Even if that was the only server, quitting is better than breaking the rules.

I'm not going out of my way to break the rules. They were not made clear and I never knew defending myself (myself personally, not the team/flag) after being attacked was part of the rules. That's the point I'm making, I wandered in there BECAUSE there are so few servers, as newbies are likely to as well. What's the problem with making it passworded, even as somebody said, putting the password in the name, just to cause the person to stop and realize what they're doing as opposed to coming in.

Now, I'd never have such a rule on my servers but admins have every right to run their servers however they want, so that's the end of that.

Of course they do, but with so few options, why drive off newcomers to the mod by having arbitrary rules and a hostile environment for rookies on an easy to join server? I'm not saying they shouldn't have the rules on their server, I'm saying they should have a method of keeping out casual players so the mod doesn't suffer as a whole. Granted, they have every "right" not to do that, but it's kind of a selfish attitude in light of FF's situation right now.

Players have every right to choose not to join a server or to quit one they don't like but no player, imo, has the right to ignore rules just because they don't like them.

Fine, then why not keep players out who don't know the rules and are likely to break them without even meaning to?

Thirdly, why moan so much? It really seems bizarre to me, like I have already said, it is up to the server admins what rules they want to enforce, personally, I would only ever join a server like this, as I do not enjoy playing FF half as much on random server without clanstyle rules, this is just my preferance.

The answer's simple, I don't want the mod to die and I think rules and kicks like this discourage newcomers.

For the Nth time, I'm not saying private servers should not have these rules. I'm saying for newcomers, it can cause a very negative experience and admins should consider passwording their servers for 2 reasons:

1. Far less people will break the rules if they have to make a more deliberate effort to join the server (and thus learn them)

2. Newcomers won't be turned off by the game

The mod doesn't even have a MANUAL yet, newcomers are BOUND to break the rules by accident because they won't fully understand the game itself yet, let alone clan rules. While it seems natural to TFC vets, FF definitely has a real learning curve to it.

I dont go onto 2fort 24/7 servers and whine about them only playing 2fort, it is their choice if they want to do that, they obviously enjoy it more, so I just join other servers.

Great analogy. So say hypothetically every server turned into a pub 2fort one. You'd stop playing the mod right?

Again, logic and reason. It's really that simple.

Except going by logic, your assumed truths are incorrect. I'm not arguing that this server should not exist nor should it have the rules, I'm saying it should be passworded if you want to prevent the community from dying.

[SME]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I'm not going out of my way to break the rules. They were not made clear and I never knew defending myself (myself personally, not the team/flag) after being attacked was part of the rules. That's the point I'm making, I wandered in there BECAUSE there are so few servers, as newbies are likely to as well. What's the problem with making it passworded, even as somebody said, putting the password in the name, just to cause the person to stop and realize what they're doing as opposed to coming in.

Of course they do, but...

Fine, then why not keep players out who don't know the rules and are likely to break them without even meaning to?

The answer's simple, I don't want the mod to die and I think rules and kicks like this discourage newcomers.

For the Nth time, I'm not saying private servers should not have these rules. I'm saying for newcomers, it can cause a very negative experience and admins should consider passwording their servers for 2 reasons:

1. Far less people will break the rules if they have to make a more deliberate effort to join the server (and thus learn them)

2. Newcomers won't be turned off by the game

The mod doesn't even have a MANUAL yet, newcomers are BOUND to break the rules by accident because they won't fully understand the game itself yet, let alone clan rules. While it seems natural to TFC vets, FF definitely has a real learning curve to it.

Great analogy. So say hypothetically every server turned into a pub 2fort one. You'd stop playing the mod right?

Except going by logic, your assumed truths are incorrect. I'm not arguing that this server should not exist nor should it have the rules, I'm saying it should be passworded if you want to prevent the community from dying.

Regardless if you went out of your way or accidentally broke the rules, the number is irrelevant as is whether or not it's "newbie friendly"

Of course they do, period.

Because not everyone has a problem learning and following other admins' rules.

Many admins think rules make a for play style that players want. New or otherwise. Not all servers have to cater to new players nor are they killing the mod nor stupid for running the servers as they see fit.

Rules should be clear and easy to understand or somehow explained but rules don't, in any way, kill the mod, imo.

[mervaka]

oh man... not another!

[SME]

Originally Posted by mervaka

oh man... not another!

I thought this was over? Are you *trying* to tell me that *I* am *not* entitled to post my opinion in reply to other people's posts?

He replied to my post, I replied to his, It's called a conversation.

[NewKleer]

wow you dont sound up yourself at all there...

you can post your opinion, but if its based on misguided assumptions like yours is, dont expect not to be told about it

im gonna make a server where you can only play scout, everyone is offence, no OvO. you said you think that rules cant kill the mod, but im sure if all servers ran rules like that, i think its save to say 95% of players would play for 5 minutes then uninstall.

some rules will affect newbies perception and willingness to play the mod, some wont make a difference. stupendously naive of you to think no rules can have an impact on killing the mod. the mod will only become popular and ultimately be successful in the long run if new players pick it up, and if these clan rules are turning people away, then the blood is on the hands of admins who enforce shitty rules.

[SME]

Originally Posted by NewKleer

wow you dont sound up yourself at all there...

you can post your opinion, but if its based on misguided assumptions like yours is, dont expect not to be told about it

im gonna make a server where you can only play scout, everyone is offence, no OvO. you said you think that rules cant kill the mod, but im sure if all servers ran rules like that, i think its save to say 95% of players would play for 5 minutes then uninstall.

If you run a server you can make any rules you want and I'd stick up for that right even if I wouldn't have teh same rules myself.

Not all servers have to cater to new players, nor should they.

[NewKleer]

nobody said otherwise - you can make whatever rules you want and no one can stop you. that of course doesnt mean it will be whats best for the mod in the long run.

but if someone is that determined to bring over legacy rules from tfc (some of which are pretty questionable there) and enforce them to the detriment of new players, theyve already shown a lack of regard for the mods long term future, so i wouldnt expect them to really give a shit what effect their server has on the average player.

Server rules are pretty lax on this server, common sense kicks are all I've seen. Most of the people getting kicked are relatively clued up players that seem to purposely join, not really to break the rules but to just wind players up.
These 'newbies' that everyone talks about in these server and 'ff is dying' threads, are people that join a server with rules, ignore them all, ignore the people asking for them not to do whatever, get kicked and never load up the game again - do they really exist? Are they the sort of players that are going to stick the game out, learn it and start playing in leagues and stuff (which is what we're talking about yeah?). They'd be better off never playing the game again after trying one server than trying to stick it out with such a hostile community.
blablablabal

[mervaka]

Originally Posted by SME

I thought this was over? Are you *trying* to tell me that *I* am *not* entitled to post my opinion in reply to other people's posts?

He replied to my post, I replied to his, It's called a conversation.

no, but you insist on recycling the same old arguments up at every opportunity you see, and so a never ending bitching war results. show some restraint. you've made your point in another thread. i'm trying to contain all this into one thread. next time this happens i'm just going to move your posts into the thread i made you.

EDIT: i suppose its a conversation i missed from a while back (its a month old conversation) but my point remains. lets keep these debates in one thread please?

[SME]

Originally Posted by NewKleer

nobody said otherwise - you can make whatever rules you want and no one can stop you. that of course doesnt mean it will be whats best for the mod in the long run.

but if someone is that determined to bring over legacy rules from tfc (some of which are pretty questionable there) and enforce them to the detriment of new players, theyve already shown a lack of regard for the mods long term future, so i wouldnt expect them to really give a shit what effect their server has on the average player.

For the 3rd time, not every server needs to or even should cater to new players. If it was your server, you'd have a say so but only as far as your server goes. This isn't a retarded socialist situation, servers are owned and operated by individuals who have the only right to make policy for that server. Not players, not even the devs nor the members of a internet forum IN NO WAY get to decide what's best, on other people's servers despite delusions of grandeur.

Hope that helps...

[BumGravy]

The above post should be moves to the "You laugh, you lose" thread. (I lost).

[SmellyCat]

Me too.

[3allz]

putting [] before your name is the first milestone to showing that you follow the server rules.

[Geenie]

wow, this is still alive? well server is now running TF2 so you can close it if u want/can

[Meathook]

went from an anal league rules FF server... to a TF2 server?

suck my dick.