Defending SGs against mirvs

moosh · 07-12-2010, 12:56 PM

Are there any ways to defend my sentry gun while a mirv explodes near it? I keep hammering the fucker but I get fucked up from the mirv. Is there any way at all? Or is it like 1 mirv and my sg is guaranteed gone.

Bridget · 07-12-2010, 02:14 PM

It all comes down to placement. If the grenade is far enough away, you can sometimes crouch and maneuver around the gun so that each or most of the smaller successive explosions are absorbed by the front (relative to your position) of gun and not your face allowing you time to tank the gun with your wrench. However, if the grenade lands right at the base of your gun, there's no point trying to save it. The MIRV is terribly overpowered, but the development team so far doesn't give a shit.

**Elmo** · 07-12-2010, 05:33 PM

Your post has a point, fine. But will you please stop with this stupid attitude towards the development team you have acquired.

**Crazycarl** · 07-12-2010, 08:47 PM

We give a shit. We give a huge shit.

EDIT: The initial explosion, and each bomb that comes out, is as powerful as a frag (they used to be stronger pre-2.4), so there's no hope if it lands right on top. If some of the bombs are far from your sg, you might be able to repair right in the middle of the explosions and keep it alive. Most likely, you and the gun are going to die if you try it.

Iggy · 07-12-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

It all comes down to placement. If the grenade is far enough away, you can sometimes crouch and maneuver around the gun so that each or most of the smaller successive explosions are absorbed by the front (relative to your position) of gun and not your face allowing you time to tank the gun with your wrench. However, if the grenade lands right at the base of your gun, there's no point trying to save it. The MIRV is terribly overpowered, but the development team so far doesn't give a shit.

The Mirv needs to go to 6 bomblets, rather than just 4. It's a fucking Mirv, it's SUPPOSED to fuck shit up! What do you want, the fucking thing to burst into some balloons with the word "BANG" on them?

Bridget · 07-13-2010, 02:23 AM

Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

hlstriker · 07-13-2010, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

[Frag grenades] should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings.

I too always thought grenades should do reduced damage to buildables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

This is a really interesting idea. Though I think the bomblets should be kept and the damage of the initial explosion + bomblets should be tweaked.

KubeDawg · 07-13-2010, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

That is the gayest idea I've heard yet. It's a frag grenade, it explodes shit human OR robotic.

Bridget · 07-13-2010, 07:52 AM

Yeah bro, because realism is really what's fueling this game.

Iggy · 07-13-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yeah bro, because realism is really what's fueling this game.

So.... what exactly IS your problem with a grenade that fucks shit up?

angrypyro · 07-14-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

MIRVS are given to defensive classes like Demo and HWguy. Usually offensive classes are the ones that need to do the structure destroying.

Bridget · 07-14-2010, 04:18 AM

Everything's good in theory.

chilledsanity · 07-16-2010, 11:51 PM

Once upon a time sentries would push somebody flying at it straight back because it was a meanass sentry gun and took some planning to take out. Not only would this kill invaders, but it also made it difficult to get close to them, granting an extra layer of protection. Then push got reduced heavily, so everybody short of a bunny hopping hwguy could run right up to it. This led to mirvs taking out sg's being a commonplace occurence, rather than requiring careful manuevering to pull off, causing a balance shift.

Nerfing the mirv isn't a good solution, because it would just be a reaction to nerfing something else that used to work. And I agree, they SHOULD cause a lot of damage.

This is a general question that does depend a lot on map layout, but due to changes in FF, the new answer to this question is you can't really stop this by yourself if a demoman has a hard-on for your sentry. As I understand it, the expected approach now to keeping your sentry alive is to get your teammates to babysit it in addition to yourself. In TFC it was possible to keep your sentry up by yourself under most situations. In FF, it's expected that it takes you and a couple teammates to do the same thing as a way of promoting teamwork.

Pixel · 07-17-2010, 12:16 AM

Temporary SG Shield? Would only last long enough to protect against a nade or two. Have charge-up.

Ronzui · 07-20-2010, 09:58 AM

A problem Ive been realizing is the wrench repair mechanic has about a half second delay, not sure if its designed that way or what, but I know its annoying. It would be nice to get this fixed. I know its not a latency issue.

**Elmo** · 07-20-2010, 10:08 AM

I'm guessing that is purely messaging and latency.

Maybe/probably the HUD update is slower once it's received the message back from the server. That might be possible but there won't be any intended latency to to actually repairing it.

I don't think the hud is the fastest thing, I'm doing some new stuff now and there is lag between hitting it and it updating on the hud - I'll try to take a closer look anyway but not sure we can do much/anything about it.

Marxist · 07-21-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Temporary SG Shield? Would only last long enough to protect against a nade or two.

Better yet, learn to use your sg as a shield and it'll rarely ever go down

The model is big enough that you can wrench it while it absorbs a blast without a whole lot of thought.

As far as the mirv conversation goes, it's already been lowered, and if your sg gets mirved then you need to be able to judge if it's savable or better to just dismantle and run like hell. As the mirv is now with mirvlets being equal to a frag grenade each, well, I've seen plenty of people run right through them and survive, I think its fine where its at. The biggest issue with mirvs or any other grenades is the whole explosion slowing thing that was added in 2.4, if you get caught by the initial blast, you're pretty much boned. Focus your opinions on what the cause is rather than just randomly blasting things.

chilledsanity · 07-22-2010, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marxist

Better yet, learn to use your sg as a shield and it'll rarely ever go down The model is big enough that you can wrench it while it absorbs a blast without a whole lot of thought.

You still take damage and knockback from the blast if you're close enough to the sg to repair it. The only "shielding" aspect the sg performs is to provide a point of impact farther in front of you than your face. It doesn't actually provide any protection like it did in TFC.

Marxist · 07-22-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

You still take damage and knockback from the blast if you're close enough to the sg to repair it.

If you're taking any damage from a nade you're not using your sg as a shield properly. It does block all damage if you position yourself properly. If anything its far easier to use the sg to block nades in ff than it is in tfc, nades in tfc that actually land real close to the sg in tfc do damage through the gun and it doesn't block anything, the radius in tfc is larger and more powerful than what we have in ff for regular frags.

**squeek.** · 07-23-2010, 07:20 AM

I've noticed that as well. Nades on the ground are pretty easy to block with the SG (I remember doing ring-a-round-the-SG blocking nade damage for ages on plasma). It's rockets and flying nades that pose a problem.

07-12-2010, 12:56 PM	#1
moosh WhenNailGrenWillOut? Beta Tester Join Date: May 2009 Gametype: mp_prematch Affiliations: [:)] - Frag Happy, babe\| Posts Rated Helpful 29 Times	Defending SGs against mirvs Are there any ways to defend my sentry gun while a mirv explodes near it? I keep hammering the fucker but I get fucked up from the mirv. Is there any way at all? Or is it like 1 mirv and my sg is guaranteed gone. __________________ [[ ff_hotfudge - bhop_theonlyone ]] "As the the new year approaches I await for it like an case of explosive fecalomania otherwise know as diareha or the massive shits. I am gripping the sides of the toilet as my stomach produces the first hollow thud out of the anus of the year to come." DarkeN_HellspawN

07-12-2010, 05:33 PM	#3
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	Your post has a point, fine. But will you please stop with this stupid attitude towards the development team you have acquired. __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999) Last edited by Elmo; 07-12-2010 at 05:38 PM.

07-12-2010, 08:47 PM	#4
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	We give a shit. We give a huge shit. EDIT: The initial explosion, and each bomb that comes out, is as powerful as a frag (they used to be stronger pre-2.4), so there's no hope if it lands right on top. If some of the bombs are far from your sg, you might be able to repair right in the middle of the explosions and keep it alive. Most likely, you and the gun are going to die if you try it. Last edited by Crazycarl; 07-12-2010 at 08:55 PM.

07-17-2010, 12:16 AM	#14
Pixel if(0>1){printf("broked");} Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Amerika Class/Position: O Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Temporary SG Shield? Would only last long enough to protect against a nade or two. Have charge-up. Last edited by Pixel; 07-17-2010 at 12:17 AM.

07-20-2010, 10:08 AM	#16
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	I'm guessing that is purely messaging and latency. Maybe/probably the HUD update is slower once it's received the message back from the server. That might be possible but there won't be any intended latency to to actually repairing it. I don't think the hud is the fastest thing, I'm doing some new stuff now and there is lag between hitting it and it updating on the hud - I'll try to take a closer look anyway but not sure we can do much/anything about it. __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999) Last edited by Elmo; 07-20-2010 at 10:09 AM.

07-12-2010, 02:14 PM	#2
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	It all comes down to placement. If the grenade is far enough away, you can sometimes crouch and maneuver around the gun so that each or most of the smaller successive explosions are absorbed by the front (relative to your position) of gun and not your face allowing you time to tank the gun with your wrench. However, if the grenade lands right at the base of your gun, there's no point trying to save it. The MIRV is terribly overpowered, but the development team so far doesn't give a shit.

07-13-2010, 02:23 AM	#6
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Yes, the MIRV is supposed to be powerful. I'm well aware. Instead, it's too powerful. I am going to offer the same suggestion I gave a long time ago. Fragmentation grenades need to be made into Anti-Personnel grenades. They should do 100% damage to players and 25% damage to buildings. MIRVS can then be made into Anti-Structure grenades. They do 100% damage to buildings but 25% damage to humans. Get rid of the bomblets. Keep the initial explosion.

07-13-2010, 07:52 AM	#9
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Yeah bro, because realism is really what's fueling this game.

07-14-2010, 04:18 AM	#12
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Everything's good in theory.

07-16-2010, 11:51 PM	#13
chilledsanity D&A Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	Once upon a time sentries would push somebody flying at it straight back because it was a meanass sentry gun and took some planning to take out. Not only would this kill invaders, but it also made it difficult to get close to them, granting an extra layer of protection. Then push got reduced heavily, so everybody short of a bunny hopping hwguy could run right up to it. This led to mirvs taking out sg's being a commonplace occurence, rather than requiring careful manuevering to pull off, causing a balance shift. Nerfing the mirv isn't a good solution, because it would just be a reaction to nerfing something else that used to work. And I agree, they SHOULD cause a lot of damage. This is a general question that does depend a lot on map layout, but due to changes in FF, the new answer to this question is you can't really stop this by yourself if a demoman has a hard-on for your sentry. As I understand it, the expected approach now to keeping your sentry alive is to get your teammates to babysit it in addition to yourself. In TFC it was possible to keep your sentry up by yourself under most situations. In FF, it's expected that it takes you and a couple teammates to do the same thing as a way of promoting teamwork.

07-20-2010, 09:58 AM	#15
Ronzui Join Date: Sep 2008 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	A problem Ive been realizing is the wrench repair mechanic has about a half second delay, not sure if its designed that way or what, but I know its annoying. It would be nice to get this fixed. I know its not a latency issue.

07-23-2010, 07:20 AM	#20
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	I've noticed that as well. Nades on the ground are pretty easy to block with the SG (I remember doing ring-a-round-the-SG blocking nade damage for ages on plasma). It's rockets and flying nades that pose a problem. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington Last edited by squeek.; 07-23-2010 at 07:22 AM.

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