Merged: Disappointed TF2 and TF2 Impressions

[groovyf]

Originally Posted by Rex_Omar

People seem to be forgetting that this is a Beta!

Valve have a habit of dissapointing people, only to wow them when the full version launches. Think of it as a little taster.

I can assure you that when the full version comes out most people will change their tune.

Remember people, this is a Beta version, not the final product!

I actually just think they've called it a "Beta", and this is what we'll get next month. Some kind of marketing ploy.
At GC 2007 was there any mention of the game being a Beta version everyone was playing?

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Initial Impressions:
-Graphics very good. I like the new style.
-Gameplay is very much slower. HATE the respawn delay. Lack of apparent bunnyhopping or some other fast form of movement is also highly annoying.

Getting rid of the respawn delay would instantly make this game 10000000x times better in my opinion.

I agree with whoever said the TF2 demoman is good, that class being the one part of the game I thought superior to the FF version. It's either that the pipes are easier to aim or because there are no grenades to contend with pipes which makes the class very effective.

The game has been entirely stable for me so far, and feels very solid and chunky - although perhaps a bit too chunky as the classes have lost their ability to move around. I could live without grenades, concing and bunny-hopping, but TF2 deliberately holds you back movement wise. You have to run in a straight line to get anywhere.

I also agree that the "beta" is probably in name only. Fights last for about 3 seconds but the respawn timer is typically 15 seconds, and there's absolutely no reason for such a long timer. Somehow, I doubt that timer will be changed in any way, or removed.

Originally Posted by mervaka

ok, you know they were talking about promoting 2 man teamplay? so besides the medic/HW teamplay bonuses, what others exist?

I heard someone make the argument earlier today that the respawn delay promotes teamplay.

nevermind the absolute jar of molasses it throws on the gameplay.

[GotSniperorTurretProblems]

Valve strikes again!

First CSS, then DODS, and now TF2! What will the fuck up next!

[Everything]

Too busy to give TF2 a chance, TFC and FF are much better in my opinion, they are just more fun and entertaining...

Originally Posted by dieangel

concs are more like a bug anyway.

maybe in the first version...and then it was developed as part of an integral part of the game. meds and scouts use those grenades as tools for flag capping.

[MrBeefy]

Just spent about 10 minutes on 2fort while here at work.


My god is it beautiful!
What absolutely lovely and solid art direction!


I know a lot of people have mentioned the speed being too slow, but I think that's just relative to what you're used to The speed is fine, but the gameplay feels like it's lacking... passion, might be the word? The graphics look very "madcapped," but the gameplay doesn't feel that way.

Can't wait to spend hours in this world, though. What a breakthrough in visual treats!

I know it's of foolish of me to defend TF2 on a FF forum, but I was extremely impressed by it. It's a little slower in pace, and less old-school, but the graphics and fluidity of the gameplay constantly give you the feeling of "Wow, am I actually playing this?"

FF is definitely truer to TFC, and that's a good thing, because TFC was the best damn game in the world in its day. TF2 strives to capture a new audience, which, given its flashier graphics and smoother gameplay (at least for most -- I know some people have been having issues, but even my roommate on his old p4 radeon 9600 system can run it pretty well; better than he can FF), I think it will, for better or worse.

One thing everyone agrees on is that the changes made in TF2 have resulted in a completely different gameplay, and the two different styles will appeal to different people.

I plan on playing and enjoying both mods so long as a playerbase remains, and I'd hope that there can be a mutual cooperation between the two communities instead of a " my mod > your mod " mentality.

Awesome job to both teams

(I will give greater props to the FF team, who cranked out a mod that easily rivals one produced by a multi-million dollar software corporation all without any pay or material reward. If you guys open up a paypal or something, I would be more than willing to donate.)

[Dr.Uudge]

i think as FF progresses, and as the dev team -

improves and optimizes the net codes to perhaps increase slot size and/or an overall optimization of code, and improve models,animations, and special effects, FF is going to be the new standard to measure team fortress style games.

because from what i've seen on youtube, read from forums, and heard from friends, the only thing that tf2 has going for it is graphics and "smoothness."

eh...that's not gonna last too long...

if some forum members here play fighting games like viruta fighter, tekken, or soul calibur, they know that the more intricate and deep the gameplay gets, the longer it will stay alive. This is helped further to stay alive, if the learning curve for beginners is easy and they begin to understand how the game mechanics work just by playing, like how fighting games do with combo strings.

[Ambex]

I want to say that I didn't played TF2 yet but I'm more interested in FF.

I think that there won't be any mods similiar like tfc more.

that's it, i think so.

You just have to wait some time, like before..

I played tfc before and it wasn't much to look at, but when I downloaded all the models and skins from custom-tfc.co.uk TFC became that it was supposed to be.

yeah, awe-inspiring.

[GambiT]

Originally Posted by summit

It amazes me how quick people are to post their preconceived thoughts of TF2 justified by a few seconds of play.

here are my thoughts based on NO playing time on TF2. its sucks. i'm not even going to try it. FF is what i see myself playing for years to come. this is where im staying.


amazed?

Originally Posted by Dr.Uudge

i think as FF progresses, and as the dev team -

improves and optimizes the net codes to perhaps increase slot size and/or an overall optimization of code, and improve models,animations, and special effects, FF is going to be the new standard to measure team fortress style games.

because from what i've seen on youtube, read from forums, and heard from friends, the only thing that tf2 has going for it is graphics and "smoothness."

eh...that's not gonna last too long...

if some forum members here play fighting games like viruta fighter, tekken, or soul calibur, they know that the more intricate and deep the gameplay gets, the longer it will stay alive. This is helped further to stay alive, if the learning curve for beginners is easy and they begin to understand how the game mechanics work just by playing, like how fighting games do with combo strings.

You're way off. The TF2 team spent 6 years enhancing TFC to become a much better game. Grenades are just spam... you learn to use them and you learn the art(?) of spamming and you have it mastered.. they don't add to the game. I listened to a commentary that valve created talking about how grenades just made all the classes too similar because many of the weapons are much worse than the simple grenades everyone has. By making classes more diverse (like a medic that actually heals, a spy with more abilities, the list goes on) the game is actually much better. Anyone who tells you otherwise was just expected TFC with better graphics... most people don't want that because we've already played it for years.

I would give it a chance and check out some other forums before listening to the FF fanbois :P

[Everything]

Well, you're obviously in the FF "Fanbois" home, where TF2 is deeply hated.

welcome.

[IvaQuaL]

Originally Posted by benjpac

Anyone who tells you otherwise was just expected TFC with better graphics

Overall I rate your troll 3/5

[Tarron]

Originally Posted by benjpac

You're way off. The TF2 team spent 6 years enhancing TFC to become a much better game. Grenades are just spam... you learn to use them and you learn the art(?)

i disagree, as a spy in disguise there is nothing better on dustbowl than a grenade jump.

[Mr. Happy]

After my first hour of playing I said to myself "why am I not having fun?"

Then I started swtiching classes like mad, remembering what they said about certain classes fitting certain people.

It's not TF, at least, not how we think of it, I don't play the same classes or in the same way in TF2 as in FF. But I still have my niche in that game and now that I've found it TF2 is alot more fun.

Still, I think if they lowered weapon damage and increased speed and air physics accross the board it would be amazing (better than awesome not as good as excellent)

[Beast_Within]

I'll start off by saying that I'm a die-hard TF fan from way back. I stopped clanning in TFC in 2002 but eagerly anticipated this day ever since. I have long hoped that TF2 would put TF on top the multiplayer heap and gain the recognition it deserves.

In the words of Zorg: I am ... disappointed. Very, very disappointed.

Good:

- The look. Everyone knows this. The game is beautiful.

- The little touches. Each class has its own melee weapon and they're all cleverly done. Around the maps are neat little nuggets of flavor.

- Classes:
----- Scouts take command points twice as fast. Perfect mechanic.
----- I like the engy teleporter. Great mechanic that can easily shift gameplay.
----- The medic gun is spectacular. Just what the medic needed.
----- Spying is pure joy. Cloak-disguise-unloak is a cinch and timer on the cloak seals the deal.


And that's all the good things.

Bad:

- No grenades. Is it less spammy? Perhaps, but in every previous TF each class had its own combination of grenades that made it useful. And in every previous version, people found a way to deal with them.

- No speed control. You just walk everywhere you go. It's slow and unnecessary. Speed control is what separates the good players from the mediocre ones.

- The hit zones, combined with the inherent lack of accuracy, saps all the fun out of close combat. Additionally, the melee weapons are FAR too powerful.

-Classes:
----- Sniper: the secondary gun is too powerful. If you're a sniper and you find yourself in close combat, you've already failed. Your weaponry should reflect that.
----- Soldier: rocket jumping is weak and underpowered. Don't bother.
----- Demo: you can't blow up your sticky grenades until they've stuck into something. So they're practically useless.
----- Heavy: is it just me or is Sasha pretty weak? I found myself up close and personal with a scout who I should be able to reduce to paste in about a nanosecond. Instead, he stood in my line of fire for about two seconds, made it behind me and killed me with 3 swings of his little baseball bat. Have I mentioned that melee weapons are too powerful?
----- Engy: Ah yes. I've now watched hordes of witless noobs get mowed down by a single SG placed out in the open. The invulnerable engy just stood behind it, whacking away all the while. If you take away grenades, you need to make the SG's less powerful or slower to track. Even the spy sapper is worthless against a slightly competent engy.

Abysmal

WHOSE FUCKING BRILLIANT IDEA WAS IT TO HAVE RESPAWN TIMES IN A TF GAME?!?!?!? IT'S TEAM FORTRESS FOR FUCK SAKE. When I step onto my battlements exactly 5 seconds after spawning only to get picked off by a sniper, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS TO SPAWN AGAIN.

[sokrateas]

Well, I've posted my thoughts on FF before, so I'll stick with TF2 here. I played it for a good few hours last night, and tried out every class (except sniper), and a few of the new styled maps.

The Art/Ambiance
It's absolutely stunning, I have a crappy AMD Athlon XP 64bit 3000+ with an ATI X800 Pro, and 2 gigs of ram, and I can run this at a reasonable resolution with good FPS (1280x960, high details, 2x AA). One thing Valve really did well to add to the whole style of art, is that all of the classes have their own unique vocal and visual personalities. For instance, when I first stepped out into 2fort, there was an enemy pyro flaming an HWGuy and he was yelling "FIRE, FIRE, HAHAHA". It seems that most of the classes have different audio tracks for different situations. Also, even though it's hard to see, the players actually do have facial expressions based on their health, and weather they are shooting or not. I felt like that really adds to the whole feel of the game.

The Different Classes
Well... sigh, this is where things really went down hill for anyone who's played any of the other Fortress games. My first pick of class was a medic, since it's my favourite class, and I absolutely love it in FF.
Medic Well, my first shock, I don't have a shotgun, I have this giant needle gun that blocks a quarter of my field of view, and has yet to give me my own kill. (Read more about assists below). I've got this mean looking bone saw, that I hacked at another medic for about 5 or 6 times before I got him. I think it's the range on the thing... there is none. Finally I've got the medic ray which is quite awesome, step in behind a heavy and you get an assist point for every kill he gets while you are healing him. Pretty awesome. Medic is now filed under support, and trying to cap a flag with him is near to impossible unless you're with a team mate. That's very disappointing to me.

So I switched over to Scout to satisfy my offensive needs.
Scout Again I scrolled through my weapons to see what I was equipped with, and to my surprise the scout now has the equivalent to the super shotgun, a long range pistol, and the bat that everyone knows about. On my first shot with this shotgun I dropped a soldier. I'm sure he wasn't full health, but it felt amazing to actually be able to do something as a scout, and we really need damage because it's not worth jumping anymore, and there are no concs. I've yet to do any real harm with my pistol because it was labeled as long range, but the accuracy is sooo horrible. The bat, well... The bat is great couple smacks on the back of the 'ol noggin and that Pyro playing defence was down and out.

Soldier He's got the Shovel, Rocket launcher, and the shotgun from what I can remember. The melee weapons seems to all pretty much be the same at this point, so I won't talk about them anymore. The rocket launcher is slow as hell as far as rocket speed, but they seem to do a heck of a lot of damage. Rocket jumping is alright, I can't seem to get the hang of it, must be used to FF. The reload time on it is pretty good though. Worst thing about the soldier, sooooo slow, you can really get a Soldier going in FF, but in TF2, don't count on evading any fire. Soldier has been botched overall.

Pyro This is somehow filed under Offence, even though it seems like he is slower than a heavy. Take away grenades, and a IC launcher from the pyro, and leave the flame thrower about as effective, what are you left with? An even more useless pyro, a real shame. The flame distance is weak, and when I got lit on fire, I just laughed, because the damage is so minimal. But I haven't played this class too much, because it is useless in it's proposed role as offensive.

Demoman The grenade launcher here is exaclt the same as before, nothing you wouldn't expect. 4 pipes, same sort of physics, great at short range. The most notable addition here would be that his pipes are now sticky grenades (which I can't seem to get stuck to a player). But defense in 2fort is a breeze with sticky grenades in the ramp room, on the walls and ceilings. They can't see them, and can't avoid them either because only soldiers can make it onto the deck. So it really choked 2 fort on offense. Anyhow, the sticky pipes are very powerful, and are definitely not fun if you're not the one using them. Demoman is considered Defensive.

HWGuy Not much to say here, they pretty much just snagged the Machine Gun from Heavy class out of dystopia. You can hold right click to 'preheat' your gun, by spinning it so that when you press fire, it will start immediately. Your speed is very slow when it's spinning. In one of the tf2 videos, it shows a scout running away from a Heavy in 2 fort.... Not possible against any heavy who knows what he's doing. Took about 2 bullets to take down a scout. Very powerful class as usual.

Engineer Well, I really enjoyed playing Engy. Dropping blue prints and then running for bags while your items build is pretty sweet. He's got his Shotgun as well to get some damage done. But most importantly, SGs are ridiculously amazing especially when there are no grenades or nail guns to take these bad boys down, (maybe it's what the medic's gun is for?). Dispensers are pretty cool in the fact that they show you how much inventory they have left with a little gas gauge type thingy. And they heal as well, so that's ace. The teleporters are cool looking, but they are still teleporters...

That does it for the Defensive, the only other one would be spy, which I don't usually play a lot.

Spy He can detpack sgs, so that's a great way to take them down I guess. He's got his switchblade knife for the infamous one hit kill, and he can go invisible with the simple click of a the right mouse button, just like FF. The only difference is that there is a time limit on it. He's also got this bad ass 6 shooter magnum style gun, which I honestly didn't fire, but got hit by it once with low health and died off right away... Not too much different here.

Miscellaneous Other Stuff
The new map styles are really cool, they have this one map where there are 6 different zones, each team starts with 3. Then the game randomly decides the two zones that are bordering that will be fighting eachother next round. SO you start up cap the other teams point, and then that territory becomes yours. New round starts, and they pick another bordering territory war. What's amazing about this in my opinion, is that depending on which point you are attacking from a certain point of your own, the map will be laid out a bit different, and I really enjoyed this personally. Each zone is really straight forward though, with huge neon signs pointing in which way to go.

The game doesn't track kills or deaths, just points. So a medic even though he has no offensive arsenal can get plenty of points through assists. Which did sort of compensate for the medic not being able to move faster than oprah in a tub of mollasses.

Intro films to any new map you haven't played before. There is an optional film you can watch before any new map, that will explain the details and objectives. I think this will be really helpful for new players, and the videos weren't hard to watch or anything.

Excuse my language, but FU**ING RESPAWN TIME is 15 seconds. I can't believe it. Especially as the weak ass scout, you spend 90% of your time waiting around, watching the douche bag heavy that killed you mow over all your friends. I can't stand this, I would be able to bear 5 seconds or maybe even 10. But wtf, 15 is ridiculous.

The no nades are frustrating because I am often hitting F and G, but in the long run, it's really broke the game down to more of a little one vs one mini battle, any time you encounter a class of similar strength, and that was what I really like about Fortress games, is shotgun battles. That's just my opinion.

STATS! They track a ton of different stats with some graphs and numbers that show up any time you are loading a map. Plus they compare them on the TF2 Community. I'm a sucker for stats, and I just love seeing what the most number of sg kills I've had, or how many minutes I've played a certain class. Very sweet.. (hint hint FF).

My Final thoughts, if you even made it this far would be; Fortress forever will be my love, and when I get bored of it now and again, I'll switch to TF2 for some good times. TF2 Just looks really good, and sounds really good. But the gameplay will never compare to the fast paced Fortress Forever. They really are two completely different games, with only two things in common, they have CTF maps, and they have all the same classes. And My final final note, is that the modding community is going to have a tough time making maps for TF2 that people will accept. Thanks for your time.

[barronofhellion]

Originally Posted by IvaQuaL

Overall I rate your troll 3/5

3 of 5 thats pritty weak learn how to troll better next time