Why the HWGuy sucks.

[Crazycarl]

Originally Posted by JackBauer

is it save to say the HWG in tfc is stronger?

Just like it is safe to say that oranges are juicier than apples.

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Just like it is safe to say that oranges are juicier than apples.

Oh so we're going back into denial mode on the hwguy being weaker now? Why not! That strategy worked for the engineer, right?

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Bridget

No. It's a fucking mini-gun. It's supposed to have something called bullet spread that makes it deadly at close range. It's counter-intuitive and stupid having to switch to your shotgun at close range. What next? Forced to use the nailgun at long range instead of the sniper rifle?

To hear you constantly bitch about the sniper, yes.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Iggy

To hear you constantly bitch about the sniper, yes.

Why would I bitch about the Sniper if he could only use the nailgun at long range?

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Just like it is safe to say that oranges are juicier than apples.

That's why apples suck. Oranges are the shit.

[Crazycarl]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Oh so we're going back into denial mode on the hwguy being weaker now? Why not! That strategy worked for the engineer, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges

If you were to calculate DPS for both versions of HWGuy, then you could easily prove that one is stronger than the other. I'm interested in balancing FF, not comparing it to some other game.

Originally Posted by Bridget

That's why apples suck. Oranges are the shit.

Shit now I want an orange.

[KubeDawg]

Have both ways not been tried and tested? If not, then test em. Can't be that difficult to change to the smaller cone for all bullets.

Maybe 75% bullets in smaller cone, 25% larger cone?

65, 35? 60, 40?

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Why would I bitch about the Sniper if he could only use the nailgun at long range?

That isn't what you said.... are you a long-time stoner?

[Bridget]

READING COMPREHENSION. USE IT.

[Everything]

Why the HWGuy sucks.

The minigun model looks too much like the chaingun from Doom 3, with the ammo counter and all. Plus the spread sucks.

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_orangesIf you were to calculate DPS for both versions of HWGuy, then you could easily prove that one is stronger than the other. I'm interested in balancing FF, not comparing it to some other game.

I think this may boil down to a basic difference in philosophy. I considered TFC balanced. I had close games pretty much every time in pub AvD games, it was great. So when O receives boosts across the board and D is also weakened, it's not that hard to predict that it will get unbalanced. It's not hard at all to see after dozens of hundreds of games, looking at the differences.

The hwguy is one of the areas where D has been weakened. Sure, you can argue the shot slowing was a boost, but in practice I haven't seen it make that much of a difference, plus it only negates advantages in specific situations (I've explained why in other threads).

I think the only way to explain the "balance" changes the dev team has made, hwguy included, is to focus it for pickup games. As I understand it, TFC wasn't balanced there, so special rules were required.

While FF has a different engine and different mechanics from TFC, if you look at 1.0, it's extremely similar and most of the differences have come from after the fact. So ignoring what worked in TFC because it's not FF is a very narrow view. It's not apples to oranges, it's more like red apples to green apples.

[Raynian]

Suggestion A) Make the HW a beast. More damage, quicker.
Suggestion B) Slow his speed down a lot, so playing him involves more strategy than just running to a bag every time you get hit.

Added bonus*) Offense has a reason to take him down! It'll take longer for him to get back in position, meaning your team has longer to get past his spot. This can also be done for sollies/demos/engies!

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by Raynian

Suggestion A) Make the HW a beast. More damage, quicker.
Suggestion B) Slow his speed down a lot, so playing him involves more strategy than just running to a bag every time you get hit.

Added bonus*) Offense has a reason to take him down! It'll take longer for him to get back in position, meaning your team has longer to get past his spot. This can also be done for sollies/demos/engies!

Sounds great, it would solve balance issues and really help define roles again. I hope this suggestion doesn't get ignored, but that might be asking a lot.

[angrypyro]

Originally Posted by Raynian

Suggestion A) Make the HW a beast. More damage, quicker.
Suggestion B) Slow his speed down a lot, so playing him involves more strategy than just running to a bag every time you get hit.

Added bonus*) Offense has a reason to take him down! It'll take longer for him to get back in position, meaning your team has longer to get past his spot. This can also be done for sollies/demos/engies!

How exactly would the HW be made slower? Most people don't walk to their location but instead bunnyhop and it wouldn't make sense to remove that since every other class has that ability.

[KubeDawg]

Well to be honest, the assault cannon should be the most powerful gun in the game, and not by some small margin. It needs to stand out that it will fuck your shit up if you see it.

[Iggy]

Define "Most Powerful"....

Each gun has it's own ups and downs.... Sniper rifle can kill with one shot, so it could be argued that it's the most powerful gun. The Nailgun can take out an SG without the user taking any damage, so it could be argued that it is the most powerful. The Chaingun should be able to kill you quickly, I agree. But saying it's the most powerful, or should be, is difficult to back up.

[GenghisTron]

LOLOLOLOLOL kubedawg nice sig