FF 2.41 Released!

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by ghoti

Thank you for that, I actually wasn't aware of the skim cap but I like the idea. After reading Mushy's post, and the response it got, I'll stick around and look out for the next patch! I'll still pass on 2.41, though, as it seems to have a bit too much of the same old conc grinding seen in previous versions.

Keep up the good work, there are quite a few people out there keeping an eye on the progress, hoping that FF will one day live up to its true potential.

The skim cap was put in 4 patches ago (2.1).

[Z4toichi]

heya, was it intentional to take away the scouts ability to make jump pads on bases? Used to be able to do it after capping the flag, but no longer

I really like roasted, except for the fact you have to land on the cap point to cap the flag. Can't we make all cap points so you just have to pass through the zone? Might help the pub players. I also had a question about the change in jump sounds.

Client jump sound volume decreased by half and given its own soundscript definition

Is this going to make them more customizable? I am just wondering because I can see scripts (if they are not already out there) that will allow a change in volume in on the fly, so that D could crank them up. But, then again, I could be way off

[mervaka]

currently, not on the fly.

[KubeDawg]

I think the duck mechanics need to be improved. When you duck(This has been how it works since TFC afaik), you don't start slowing down till you are completely ducked. I think it'd work better if it started slowing you down as soon as you hit the duck key.

Also, I played genesis, and it's pretty damn badass since I guess I've only played the beta versions of it. Kudos.

[Puff Boy]

Originally Posted by GenghisTron

I'm thoroughly convinced this account is a troll.

Oh, and squeek (Pretty much THE developer) plays engy all the time, and he's quite proficient with the railgun. Sounds to me like you just need to learn to not suck.

I'm a troll because I don't agree with you? You should join the Republican party.

I set up my first network in the early 1990's to play networked Rocket Jockey and Quake. I have been on-line and playing as Puff Boy since the Quake World days. I purchased the original Half Life the day it came out. I played the original TF and TFC from day one. I played on public servers because I traveled for a living and Internet connections at hotels sucked and I couldn't commit to a clan. I downloaded and played FF 1.0 and then put it down in favor of Half-Life 2 & HL2 Teamplay on-line. TF2 sucks as far as game play goes. The Engi in TF2 might as well shoot spit wads. I hate Counter Strike.

Hands down the most fun I've ever had on-line was playing TFC on the modified Girl Power servers as an Engineer. The Engineer had Rail Gun Shock Wave that would let me Rail Jump as high as any Rocket Jump and the Shock Wave could move enemy sentry guns without destroying them. You could just shove unwatched guns into the corner. The owner would think they were still working on the other side of the map. You could also knock opponents around and knock them down from high places with the Shock Wave. The Rail Gun Shock Wave was a better solution to taking out SG's than the spy switching them.

No one answered my question. Is the Spy's ability to switch guns while cloaked new to 2.41? In the past it seems they could just switch them while disguised.


Puffy

[reaper18]

No, sabotaging sentries has been in the game since release

[Elmo]

that's not what he asked reaper.

I'm not sure what the deal is/was with regards to sabotaging while cloaked. So rather than guessing I'll let someone else answer

*EDIT* There's nothing in the change log to suggest it has ever changed with regards to being cloaked and sabotaging.

[Crazycarl]

It's easy to defend your gun from a cloaked spy. Use the shotgun--he'll have to decloak to do anything about it. I didn't know you could sabotage when cloaked, and it's not in any changelog, so I assume it happened in 2.4.

If you stick by your gun, you can pretty reliably kill a single attacker, even if you and your gun die in the process. That seems pretty balanced to me. I do think the sg could use a little buff, though.

As for unbalanced games, that's just a matter of stacked teams and we can't do much about that.

[squeek.]

You can not sabotage while cloaked.

[Puff Boy]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

It's easy to defend your gun from a cloaked spy. Use the shotgun--he'll have to decloak to do anything about it. I didn't know you could sabotage when cloaked, and it's not in any changelog, so I assume it happened in 2.4.

If you stick by your gun, you can pretty reliably kill a single attacker, even if you and your gun die in the process. That seems pretty balanced to me. I do think the sg could use a little buff, though.

As for unbalanced games, that's just a matter of stacked teams and we can't do much about that.

I can not defeat a spy with a knife with my wrench. An Engi's wrench should kill a Spy with 2 wacks. It takes like four or five wacks when he has to only stab me once or twice. The Wrench should be more powerful at least. Or I should be able to repair my Sentry with the Shotgun. ; )

The SG should give an Engi splash damage protection and track the faster classes better.

One of each Grenade type should be in resupply bags on maps without dedicated Grenade Bags.

Stacked teams could be easily taken care of with some sort of Slaughter Rule team balancing. If a team goes up by more than ten caps they lose all of their grenades until the game is tied up. That would make the game a lot more fun for the losing team and a bigger challenge for the leaders.

[Crazycarl]

Originally Posted by Puff Boy

I can not defeat a spy with a knife with my wrench. An Engi's wrench should kill a Spy with 2 wacks. It takes like four or five wacks when he has to only stab me once or twice. The Wrench should be more powerful at least. Or I should be able to repair my Sentry with the Shotgun. ; )

That's a lot of shoulds. What, you just don't like changing weapons?

Originally Posted by Puff Boy

The SG should give an Engi splash damage protection and track the faster classes better.

agreed.

Originally Posted by Puff Boy

One of each Grenade type should be in resupply bags on maps without dedicated Grenade Bags.

Would lead to players constantly spamming grenades and we don't want that.

Originally Posted by Puff Boy

Stacked teams could be easily taken care of with some sort of Slaughter Rule team balancing. If a team goes up by more than ten caps they lose all of their grenades until the game is tied up. That would make the game a lot more fun for the losing team and a bigger challenge for the leaders.

We could do something of this type down the road, but I'd rather leave it up to server admins and players to keep teams balanced.

[chilledsanity]

squeek: I'm amazed 7v7 dustbowl was balanced in 2.4 beta tests. I'd be willing to bet $100 I could win on offense for dustbowl in any random game. I can't guess as to the reason it worked out that way, but based on the many pub AvD games I've seen, all I can determine from that is the beta games simply aren't working to test AvD pub balance.

As for AvD being slanted across the board, I think that's mostly true. There are some exceptions where D does hold it's own however. Here's my current assessment of the AvD and I/D maps:

Defense-biased:
-Basicbowl

Semi-balanced:
-Anticitizen
-Vertigo (This used to be impossible for O, but in 2.4 I'm finding they're able to break through with far less trouble than they used to)

Offense-biased:
-Dustbowl
-Palermo
-Avanti_classic
-Ksour
-Napoli
-Cornfield

Since sides switch for the I/D maps, I base balance on those by how fast it takes O to cap. If an average cap point takes from 20 seconds to 2 minutes, that's not good.

I realize you can't predict everything that will happen in pubs, but here's something to consider: TFC had fantastic balance for AvD. FF has superior offense and inferior defense compared against it. In light of that, you should assume that for most maps, unless Defense is at LEAST as strong as TFC's, AvD gameplay is going to be unbalanced.


be_: As for it being more like TFC, don't get me wrong, I'm not against changing FF into something new. I think changes and new features can be great. The only reason I say make it more like TFC is because in TFC defense worked. In FF it no longer does, except in specific situations, like pickups. I'd be fine with adding lots of new defense abilities instead (to counter the new offense ones), though around here, less radical ideas have a better chance of going through. I would think it's easier to just undo all the bad decisions that have been made than to invent an entire new system to fix them.


Puff Boy: I think part of the reason he thought you were a troll was because you were complaining about something that doesn't exist. Unless it was changed by accident and kept out of the changelog, spies cannot sabotage a sentry while cloaked. However they can go 100% invisible while cloaked, which can be frustrating in some situations and devastating in the map ff_hunted.

Also I don't get why wrench damage is a big deal to you. I've always thought of that as a "humiliation" death equivalent. In other words, if an engineer killed you with a wrench, that's your own fault.

Your points about the sg is valid however. I think the only reason it's been weakened so much is because balance is being focused more for a pickup environment.

[DGMurdockIII]

I would like to see you guys use the torrent site game updates http://www.gameupdates.org/ instead of Mininova for hosting you torrents is there a chance you could do that

[Raynian]

Less EMPs is good, reduces spam and it's not that big a deal.

Slower gren throw speed is nice, hardly noticable compared to the rise from 2.3->2.4, but works well.

SG still sucks, more than it did in 2.4, because of the bag change. It's so much tougher to get a SG up now.

HW is still a joke. Reduce cone of fire, increase damage per bullet by 1-2, and drop walk speed by 20-30. Make him more of a tank, but also have it so it takes longer to get into position.

[Elmo]

Originally Posted by Raynian

HW is still a joke.

What exactly dont you like about him?

[Raynian]

The AC is a terrible weapon. It does shit damage, and the bullets spread out just a bit too quickly.

The only reason he's so "strong" is, because like everything else in the game, he can move really fast. Take destroy, he can shoot people for a while (and it takes a while to kill offense...). If someone concs past, he just stops firing for a second, does a quick bhop into the flag room, and starts shooting again with no delay.

It doesn't fit the image I have of him, where he's a brick wall that needs to be demolished - that once down, takes a while to get back up. (Or one that you can muscle past, and not have to worry about anymore)

[Bridget]

The Heavy Weapons Guy feels very powerful in terms of health and armor, but feels like a weakling when it comes to his stopping power and damage. The bullet spread is far too small for close range firing and there's no damage behind it, and it's a bitch getting sniped across the map by a Heavy as for the other guys. I say make him weaker in the health/armor department and buff him up in terms of damage.

[Ronzui]

I feel the HW is pretty dam close to being just right...maybe just a tad give give the ability to do more damage at close range.
The NG needs the same amount of health and armor as other classes such as the spy. As far as the SG its all about placement and you have to have a little help, maybe just a small increment of push and damage but not much I dont feel.
Also what do peeps think about an SG that performs 4% to 6% better if the NG is within 20 feet of it and keeps it at full health and ammo? I think that would be a good incentive for the offy Ng to stay at home...just an idea

[Marshmallow Noob]

Also what do peeps think about an SG that performs 4% to 6% better if the NG is within 20 feet of it and keeps it at full health and ammo? I think that would be a good incentive for the offy Ng to stay at home...just an idea

I think that's an excellent idea.

[reaper18]

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Noob

I think that's an excellent idea.

agreed, very good idea