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Old 09-11-2007, 03:25 AM   #21
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:28 AM   #22
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What are you guys talking about?? If there was really going to be a major debate here, it would have stated already. We're in the second page and there still hasn't been any debatable action yet. Unless I'm proven wrong.
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:29 AM   #23
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Going to war is wrong

There I started
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:34 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstaber
What are you guys talking about?? If there was really going to be a major debate here, it would have stated already. We're in the second page and there still hasn't been any debatable action yet. Unless I'm proven wrong.
If you change the number of posts per page then it doesn't make the delay look so bad...I still show this thread at one page.
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Old 09-11-2007, 07:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by GeoKill----->
Going to war is wrong

There I started
The only thing war has ever accomplished is the ending of tyranny and oppression. Freedom, liberty, and self rule have never been given away, it must be fought for and bought, and that currency is courage and blood.

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Last edited by Scuzzy; 09-11-2007 at 07:25 AM. Reason: rewording 'stopped', didn't make sense after last minute revision
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Old 09-11-2007, 07:20 AM   #26
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lol I was kidding
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Old 09-11-2007, 07:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by GeoKill----->
lol I was kidding
It's 3 am, sorry, I can't read kidding this early.
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Old 09-11-2007, 09:38 AM   #28
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The only thing war has ever accomplished is the ending of tyranny and oppression. Freedom, liberty, and self rule have never been given away, it must be fought for and bought, and that currency is courage and blood.
Except In India. And almost all of the former colonial empires. And Martin Luther King Jr would also be a good example of beating oppression through non-violent protest. Match-girl strikes and women's suffrage in England. And Jesus, that guy you worship. The one who stopped people rising against the Romans and told them to love their enemys.

Non-violence is a better way.
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Old 09-11-2007, 10:12 AM   #29
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Yes, it is very questionable however, if it's also ok for another country to interfere by the means of “war” when it is quite uncertain if someone is asking (literally) for it.
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Old 09-11-2007, 02:43 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by halo
Except In India. And almost all of the former colonial empires. And Martin Luther King Jr would also be a good example of beating oppression through non-violent protest. Match-girl strikes and women's suffrage in England. And Jesus, that guy you worship. The one who stopped people rising against the Romans and told them to love their enemys.

Non-violence is a better way.

Tell that to Islamic extremists who killed my friend in Afghanistan.
 


Old 09-11-2007, 02:59 PM   #31
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Non-violence is the way to being a martyr. It doesn't always work. I'll admit in many cases it works just fine. But the enemy must not be willing to kill you in order for that to work. If what your enemy wants is your extermination, or your death, then you can non-kick his ass all you want. You're going to end up dead and he's going to end up happy.

Personaly, I'm not an advocate of non-violence. In my experience avoiding violence is very important, but there are going to be cases where you must fight. But we've already had this debate if I remember. It didn't go anyware. haha.
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Old 09-11-2007, 02:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzy
The only thing war has ever accomplished is the ending of tyranny and oppression.
War has never been fought for territorial reasons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzy
Freedom, liberty, and self rule have never been given away, it must be fought for and bought, and that currency is courage and blood.
Non-violent resistance has never accomplished anything?
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryLife
Non-violence is the way to being a martyr. It doesn't always work. I'll admit in many cases it works just fine. But the enemy must not be willing to kill you in order for that to work. If what your enemy wants is your extermination, or your death, then you can non-kick his ass all you want. You're going to end up dead and he's going to end up happy.

Personaly, I'm not an advocate of non-violence. In my experience avoiding violence is very important, but there are going to be cases where you must fight. But we've already had this debate if I remember. It didn't go anyware. haha.
I'm of the opinion that non-violence is a higher path and a better resolution to any problem. I think it's the future we should be looking for. Having said that I think there probably are legitimate cases for violence remaining, particular in self-defence. Launching invasions on countries that you don't like is never going to work too well though. It's basically mass murder with no legal or moral basis.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:19 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ekiM
War has never been fought for territorial reasons?
No, war has been fought for those reasons obviously. My statement wasn't an exclusive one ekiM. In this instance, accomplishment is defined as "something done admirably or creditably", which is completely subjective based on my opinion of "something done admirably or creditably". I'm sure you, or someone like you, could list other accomplishment's that have occurred because of the result of war that you find admirable, but the ending of tyranny and oppression are the two I was focusing on for the particular time that the sentence you were quoting was written. Is that enough clarification for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekiM
Non-violent resistance has never accomplished anything?
I didn't mention non-violent resistance in my post above, but now that you've brought it up I would agree that there have been instances where non-violent resistance has accomplished goals.

Let's talk a bit about this. Can Alqada be stopped through non-violent resistance? If so, how?

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Old 09-11-2007, 03:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halo
I'm of the opinion that non-violence is a higher path and a better resolution to any problem. I think it's the future we should be looking for. Having said that I think there probably are legitimate cases for violence remaining, particular in self-defence. Launching invasions on countries that you don't like is never going to work too well though. It's basically mass murder with no legal or moral basis.

I can agree with all of that.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:27 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzy
Let's talk a bit about this. Can Alqada be stopped through non-violent resistance? If so, how?

Scuzzy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7JPvbVsDdY = International policy that does not advocate violence toward the U.S.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzy
No, war has been fought for those reasons obviously. My statement wasn't an exclusive one ekiM. In this instance, accomplishment is defined as "something done admirably or creditably", which is completely subjective based on my opinion of "something done admirably or creditably". I'm sure you, or someone like you, could list other accomplishment's that have occurred because of the result of war that you find admirable, but the ending of tyranny and oppression are the two I was focusing on for the particular time that the sentence you were quoting was written. Is that enough clarification for you?
You said (emphasis mine) "The only thing war has ever accomplished is the ending of tyranny and opression". That is, in fact, an exclusive statement.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:49 PM   #38
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Tell that to Islamic extremists who killed my friend in Afghanistan.
What was your friend doing in Afghanistan?
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:24 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halo
Launching invasions on countries that you don't like is never going to work too well though. It's basically mass murder with no legal or moral basis.
Rhetoric wins again! No country would ever participate in small wars wherein military force is combined with diplomatic pressure in the internal or external affairs of another state whose government is unstable, inadequate, or unsatisfactory for the preservation of life and of such interests as determined by the foreign policy of our Nation... that would be mass murder with no legal or moral basis!
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:28 PM   #40
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Well it's difficult to think about that without context. You seem to be thinking of a specific case. It's probably best if we stick with Iran so before this goes any further, or potentially gets out of hand unnecasarily, do you support an invasion, by America, of Iran?
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