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Old 09-24-2007, 03:28 AM   #1
Thunderknight
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Class Guide: Demoman

Well, I thought I might try writing one of these here class guides. Here's goes nothing...



DEMOMAN


Table of Contents

Section [1]: Stats/Load-out Overview
Section [2]: Weapons Analysis
Section [3]: Offensive/Defensive Tips
Section [4]: Credits


Section 1: Stats/Load-out Overview


Stats

Health: 90
Armor: 120
Speed: Medium

Weapons

Crowbar
Shotgun
Grenade Launcher
Pipebomb Launcher
Detpack

Frag Grenade 2 (max of 4)
MIRV Grenade 2 (max of 4)


Section 2: Weapon Analysis


Slot 1

Crowbar

Your basic bashing tool. You should never, ever have to use this. Ever. It's only useful for humiliation purposes, and even in that department it phails because it's just so damn weak. Stay the hell away from this.


Slot 2

Shotgun

Not a bad weapon, but not a great one either. Just point it at what you don't like and fire away. Generally, you should stay away from using this weapon, as all your other weapons basically make this obsolete (For example, if an enemy is too close, use your Grenade Launcher (GL). If they're further away, use your Pipebomb Launcher (PL). This should really only be used to finish off an already weakened enemy, or against scouts (who can avoid your grenades with ease).


Slot 4

Grenade Launcher

A pathetic weapon in the hands of a n00b, and deadly in the hands of an expert. This weapon fires blue grenades that will explode after a few seconds, or if they hit an enemy directly. Great for spamming narrow choke points. Also works well if an enemy is close to you, as you can nail them with this gun, which will cause decent damage as well as sending them flying. Only use this for regular combat if you know what the fuck you're doing, or if the enemy gets in too close to use the Pipebomb Launcher. Otherwise, choose the smarter alternative...


Slot 5

Pipebomb Launcher

The staple of the Demoman. This gun fires grellow (that's right, GRELLOW) pipebombs. The pipebombs are remotely detonated through the use of the "Secondary Attack" key (MOUSE2 by default). However, there is a catch: The pipebombs can only be detonated AFTER they stop glowing red (which takes a second or two).

This means that this weapon should really only be used at a medium distance. However, if you can use the map's geometry effectively, you can essentially detonate the bombs even if a person is right next to you. For example, if you ricochet them off the ground/wall/ceiling, they won't go as far, hence you can detonate them closer to you to hurt the enemy.

However, this weapon has it's defensive uses too. Using the PL, you can lay down a maximum of 8 pipebombs at a time (if you try to lay a 9th one, the first pipebomb you fired will explode to make room for the new one. If you try to lay a 10th one, then the second pipebomb you fired will explode to make room for the new one, etc). If you position these somewhere important, say a choke-point, or around the flag, you can instantly kill ANYONE (HW's too!) who dares try and cross them.

The weapon has yet another use: Pipebomb jumping. Pipebomb jumping is very simple:

Quote:
1) Lay down 1 or 2 pipebombs (depending on how far/high you need to go).

2) Run, jump + detonate your pipebomb(s) to go flying.
This will allow you to reach areas that you otherwise couldn't. Use it wisely however, as this takes off a considerable amount of health/armor!

Two final, very important notes about pipebombs:

1) If you die, all your pipebombs will explode. DON'T DIE!

2) EMP grenades will detonate all pipebombs in the blast radius. KEEP ENGINEERS THE HELL AWAY FROM YOU/YOUR PIPEBOMBS.


Slot 6

Detpack

The granddaddy of all explosives! This timed explosive will instantly kill anyone caught in the blast radius. You can set a detpack at preset increments of 5, 10, 20, and 50 seconds, or you can set the timer to whatever you like (between 5 - 60 seconds) in console (detpack ## in console, where ## represents time). However, the main use of this weapon is to open map-specific passageways/shortcuts (such as the water access on ff_well), though it can be used as a weapon in a pinch (set it in the enemy yard and watch them go kaboom!).

There are a few catches to this awesome weapon, though. First of all, it takes a few seconds to actually set, meaning that you are vulnerable while setting one down. If you get killed, you can say bye-bye detpack, too. Second, Detpacks can be diffused by scouts, so it's a good idea to keep an eye on your Detpack after you have set it (preferably from a safe distance). Finally, as previously stated, you can only set the timer between 5 - 60 seconds, so no instant explosions or ridiculously long timers.


Grenades


Frag grenade

Your standard issue fraggin' grenade. Pull the pin, throw it at the enemy, and watch them go flying across the room. A very effective
combo can be pulled off using a frag+pipebomb:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhOsT
Prime a grenade so it'll go off when it reaches your target. When you throw the grenade, launch a pipebomb with it. The grenade and pipebomb should be moving together at this point. If done correctly, when the combo reaches your target, you detonate the pipebomb and the grenade explodes at the same time, dealing massive damage.
This is usually sufficient to take down most enemies, or at least severely injure them, letting you finish them off in the manner of your choosing.


MIRV Grenade

The granddaddy of all grenades, this baby is four frag grenades in one! Basically, it acts like a regular grenade (at first). However, after the initial explosion, 4 mini-grenades are thrown out in a small area, dealing massive damage to anyone caught in the blast(s). These are excellent for taking down Sentry Guns, because even if the engineer repairs the them after the first blast, the next 4 blasts will take out the Sentry Gun in one hit (and the engineer foolhardy enough to stand near and try and repair it). These also work great for taking down HW's, a large group of defenders, and for causing (a very short) area denial.


Section 3: Tips



OFFENSIVE TIPS

USE THE PIPEBOMB LAUNCHER FOR MOST SITUATIONS

Unless you're some kind of super-pro that can hit the enemy consistently with the Grenade Launcher, the enemy is too close for you to use your PL, or if you have to spam a narrow passageway, STICK THE PIPEBOMB LAUNCHER! It is far more effective.


IF YOU SEE A SENTRY GUN, THROW A MIRV

Takes SG's out in one hit. 'Nuff said.


USE THE MAP GEOMETRY TO YOUR ADVANTAGE!

Ricochet grenades off walls/floors/ceilings/whatever. Do whatever it takes to get that grenade to explode on the enemy. Even shooting it ahead of you, off a wall (As ridiculous as it may seem) really helps when it comes to getting that pipebomb to explode as close to the enemy as possible. Also remember that downhill = Good, Uphill = BAD BAD BAD. Grenades are absolutely useless when trying to shoot up a hill. Try to lure the enemy somewhere where you have the advantage, or just run the fuck away.


GET IN CLOSE, BUT NOT TOO CLOSE

The ideal distance for a Demoman is mid-long range. Anything further will be too far for your grenades to reach, and anything closer will damage yourself, or won't allow your bombs enough time to detonate.


DETPACKS ARE STILL USEFUL OUTSIDE OF OPENING PASSAGEWAYS

Setting a detpack in the enemy yard/just before the gates open is can be surprisingly effective, but requires a lot of luck. Try it out, but don't rely on it too much.


PIPEBOMB JUMPING

Pipejumping is a great way to get across the map quickly, or to reach an area that you otherwise couldn't. If you utilize this trick to it's fullest potential, you can easily fly across the map and cap the flag in record time. However, be warned that Pipejumping takes a large chunk of health and armor, so use it carefully. Also, don't try to pipejump with low hp/armor. You may survive the initial blast, but you also have to survive the fall too!


DEFENSIVE TIPS


PIPEBOMB TRAPS

Demomen are VERY useful on defense! Being a Demoman on defense is all about utilizing your pipebombs. Lay down 7-8 of them in a key position (main entrance, flag), and anyone who goes over them, dies. Excellent for defending key areas. However, it's important to remember that while you have your pipes out, you can't use your PL without detonating the trap too. So, the only (ideal) solution is to switch over to your blue pipes to defend yourself in case anything goes wrong. Remember, lay down some Grellow pipes for traps, and cover your ass with the blue pipes!


GRENADE SPAM, HO!

While many people will question your skill (and possibly your sexual orientation) for doing this, grenade spam is very simple and effective in certain situations. All you do is simply fire your blue pipes and toss grenades repeatedly into a specific area, causing a constant wall of explosions that will keep the enemy away. Ideally, you want a NARROW passageway (such as the starting gates on dustbowl) for maximum effectiveness.


WATCH FOR SPIES!

Spies are now deadlier than ever now that they can cloak and have improved disguises. If one gets behind you, he'll kill you instantly, which in turn, will detonate your pipebombs. When defending a position, have your back to the wall so that he won't be able to stick is knife into it! Also, be aware of your "teammates". If you notice one who seems to be sitting there with his thumb up his ass, give him a friendly "nudge" with your shotgun. If he loses health, switch over to the GL and fire away, or throw him a little "present".


WATCH FOR ENGINEERS/EMPS!

Yet another threat to your traps: Engineers. Engineers can throw EMP grenades which will instantly detonate all your pipebombs (as well as kill you if you are caught in the blast). Fortunately, enemy Engineers in your base are a rarity, but be warned if you come across one!



Section 4: Credits


<insert super-kickass credits song>


Skanky Butterpuss - For stickying this thread, and making an "important change"

Camphlobactor - Pipejumping/detpack advice and criticism.

fishBurger - More detpack advice!

Industrial - More criticism and shotgun advice

GhOsT - For his awesome pipe+frag combo, Offensive/Defensive tips, and more criticism.

You - For reading this guide and playing Demoman. Cause he pwns.

gizmofo - Pointing out I had the incorrect slots for a few weapons. Thanks!

50 other people I'd like to name, but ran out of money/time/patience



Well, that wraps it up for this guide. If you have any suggestions/criticism, feel free to post them here!


(PS: Yo, sticky FTW, right?!)

Last edited by Thunderknight; 09-27-2007 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:35 AM   #2
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stickied, but only after an important change
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Old 09-24-2007, 05:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderknight
(between 5 - 60 seconds)
Misleading. There are increments at 5, 10, 20 and 50 seconds. The pack will also keep ticking if the last one is still set. Also, pipe launching shouldn't always be done in 2's. Using ff_well as an example, 1 will take you over the middle ridge, 2 will take you from the outside spawn exit to the enemy's bridge and 3 will be enough to get you on top of the enemy's battlements. 2 would be the equivalent to a single conc.
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:12 AM   #4
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There are preset increments, but you can plant any time you want in that range. My bind is for 13 seconds, and i'm not sure why. I like it though.
bind KEY "detpack 13" or whatever you want. mine also has detdispenser and cloak so one key for three secret weapons!
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:28 PM   #5
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I'd vote against using the shotgun for short range, instead using the pipe launcher. It will take at least 20+ shots (so with reloading) to take someone out with a little shotgun like that. The grenade launcher pipes detonate on impact. Blow that shit in his face and he's good as dead. Alternatively get the pipe launcher out and look down as far as you can in the enemy's direction and shoot, bouncing it off the floor and detonating it as fast as you can, often making it explode right in his face.

The shotgun is only good for long range, or shooting off that last 10hp off the flag carrier when there is no time.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:57 PM   #6
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The guide is alright but kinda mixes offensive and defensive strats. How you play a defensive demo is competely different from how you play an offensive demo.

Defensive demo is all about pipetraps, being able to quickly reset pipe traps, using grenades to cover where your pipetrap would be while you are resetting it, and effectively using blues to defend youself while your pipetrap is set. In CTF at least the demo will most of the time be used to cover the flag (i never played much AvD type stuff so things may be different there). You may kill 1 person with your trap but a lot of times there will be a second or even third attacker coming in right behind them.

Oh, and on the shotgun. I generally use the shotgun as a finisher. If I know I dealt a lot of damage to an enemy and that he's almost dead I'll whip out the shotgun. It fires fairly quickly so it'll be able to take off those last few remaining HPs pretty quickly. It's generally what I follow up with if I landed a combo on someone but they didn't die (unless it's a heavy. They are slow so it shouldn't be a problem to fire another pipe out at them).

Offensive demo is all about pipejumps, general DM skills with pipebombs, and spamming mirvs to take out sentries/defenders . I probably haven't used a single blue grenade while playing offensive demo in all my years of TFC. You can be much more precise and deadly with pipebombs.

Another important skill that is generally more usefull on offense but still usefull on defense is frag grenade + pipebomb combos. Successfully pulling off one of these combos will kill most things or at least severerly injure them. Prime a grenade so it'll go off when it reaches your target. When you throw the grenade launch a pipebomb with it. The grenade and pipebomb should be moving together at this point. If done correctly, when the combo reaches your target you det the pipebomb and the grenade explodes at the same time, dealing massive damage.

Last edited by GhOsT; 09-24-2007 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:32 PM   #7
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Alright guys, thanks for the replies. I'll fix this guide up a bit, with 99% less contradictions!


Also, going to divide the tips into Offensive/Defensive to make it a bit easier to read, and add a credits section.


*EDIT*

Done. I think it's mostly complete now, but if there is anything you feel I missed, post away.

Last edited by Thunderknight; 09-24-2007 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 09-26-2007, 04:14 AM   #8
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Prop tip: You can detonate your pipe trap while laying a detpack, so make sure you have the keys bound so you can use both at te same time. The ideal tactic is to pick a spot for your det, throw some pipes down where you think you might get attacked from, and start planting. If the enemy comes round and busts you mid-plant you can detonate and kill him or buy time to finish the plant.

Prop tip 2: When defending a flag with yellow pipes with multiple enemies incoming, watch your ammo. If you have to det, get a couple of pipes onto the flag immediately until you have time to fully reload and set a full trap.

Prop tip 3:You can only lay 8 yellow pipes at any one time. Fire any more, and your first one will explode. A tactic to use in those situations where you have an enemy trying to trick you into detting your trap is to fire more yellow pipes so your oldest one detonates, If your first pipe is laid just in front of your main trap you might hit the guy trying to get you to det early, or trick him into thinking youve detted early
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:26 AM   #9
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LMFAO.. how the hell did you remember the "grellow" (from just before the release?)?? I have to honestly give you credit for that one.
Also, just a quick question.. Arn't your slots off by one? Demoman has a slot 1- crowbar, slot-2 shotty, slot 4 blues, slot 5 greens, and slot 6 det. -May be wrong though.
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:59 AM   #10
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May I ask why people use the "noob / n00b" word? Do you even know what it means? Noob / n00b basicly means someone new (like newb) BUT he / she thinks he knows better than anyone else..

Example:
"Falling in to that tree gives you extra points! I know so because I play this game for 4 months!"

Other person replying:
"This game only has been out for a week".

Don't use the noob word if you don't know what it means. imo.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:37 PM   #11
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The "grellow" was the important change Skanky was talking about, so any and all kudos should go to him.

I only ever used grellow once and that was for continuity. How sloppy would it look if one part said yellow, and another said grellow?


And yes, the slots thing was off by one. I noticed that too the other day, but thanks for bringing it up (cause I probably would have forgotten). It's fixed now though.


As for the n00b/newb thing... Well, I can kind of see your point on it, but it's really just a minor detail. Besides, there really are n00bs out there who use only blue pipes and swear they're better than the grellow ones, and think that they are 1337 pr0's. But they usually get stomped into the ground repeatedly by everyone else.


In any case, keep those tips a comin' people, it's some good stuff you guys are posting!
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:00 PM   #12
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the edit to grellow was to ensure that this useful guide didnt deenerate into the age-old green or yellow debate. this way, everyone is happy!

and do NOT underestimate the blue pipes.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:05 AM   #13
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Fuck Double posts. Sorry people. The boards gave me an error when I was fixing the post up a bit, and it apparently posted it twice.

Last edited by Thunderknight; 09-29-2007 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:12 AM   #14
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Never underestimated them. Just saying the I've seen a few people bragging they're so skilled as a Demoman and use blue pipes exclusively (and incorrectly) and subsequently get their asses handed to them because they constantly miss. Instead, they could have easily hit him with a few grellows easily and taken him down.


Like I said before. Only close up and down narrow passage ways. Not in an open field trying to hit a on the other side of the cornfield (of all the places to fight a soldier...)
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:22 AM   #15
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I luls at double posts. Though, that one was kinda odd ^^
Scuzzy, were you in the IRC channel the night before the release?
I had asked Defrag to tell me some meaningless crap as to when the game would be released.
Defrag said something like- if the pipes are green then it will be soon
if the pipes are yellow then it will never be released.
After some begging, he told me they were grellow. I logged for the night and they released it soon after.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:13 PM   #16
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When I got around to playing demo, I tried using blues regularly to 'cover' a certain space where proximity would earn me a lot of frags, but I think it was because I haven't gotten used to firing 'grellows'.

What's the overall trick of using 'grellows', to "trap" an enemy into the explosions? I dunno...
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent_W
What's the overall trick of using 'grellows', to "trap" an enemy into the explosions? I dunno...
Spread them out over a large area and don't det until they are at the center of the trap.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:25 AM   #18
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Ah ok, I'm certain it works better than blues.

Professional deathmatchers are predictable, but the whole FF world is full of amateurs lol.

Even so, I find the demoman class terrible for deathmatching. I'm going to have to practice using 'grellows' for that purpose sometime.
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:29 AM   #19
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you can only have a maximum of two mirvs.

im gonna bust out my comb and scour your guide for typos, false information, bad advice, or poor explanations.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:27 PM   #20
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I actually devised a way to do up to a 7-pipe pip jump without dying. First you lay the pipes in 1 spot (duh) near a ledge or ramp. Then you simply jump off the ledge and det about half a second AFTER you jump. The effect is similar to a conc nade. You want to catch the very edge of the explosion. The damage isn't fatal (but kinda almost) and boosts you ridiculously far. Usually a 7-pipe jump is overkill for most maps, so just use 4-5 pipes on most maps. Occasionally, you can make it to enemy battlements with only 3.
Here's a chart with the damage you take from the different jumps:
1 pipe: barely any damage, but hardly any distance.
2 pipes: Not noticable damage, decent jump, but not yard-crossing.
3 pipes: Most people say this will kill you. They're wrong. With right spacing, this is the jump you will use most. Enough health and armor to get the job done with a nice boost.
4 pipes: This is where the pipes start taking a toll on your reserves, but will easily get you through almost every yard in fortress forever.
5 pipes: This is quite taxing, leavin you with 35-50% of your health and armor left, but this jump is an awesome showoff move and WILL get you through every CTF yard in the game.
6 pipes: Yikes, the damage from this one is fatal if you don't space right. Use this on attack and defend maps to get some serious distance on that flag.
7 pipes: The most pipes you can use without dying, and if you don't land on something higher up or near your ground level, the fall damage will render you useless... or dead.
8 pipes: The mother of all pipe jumps. If you can pull this one off without dying from the detonation, you will find yourself with roughly 11hp and no armor, probably kill you form the fall. However, I HAVE lived through this, and you can, too if you land right.
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