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Old 08-25-2011, 03:35 AM   #21
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I know some ideas are being tested in beta, but I don't know if I can divulge any details about it. I know telling people about a 'possible' feature, and then that feature gets scrapped, would be the main reason to prevent me from saying anything, but I think transparency from the Dev team to the FF community is important, even if something doesn't get finished or implemented into the game.

Remember when FF was being developed and you saw those dev journals, sorta showing people the progress of the mod as they were working on it? Well, that's what actually got me excited to play FF and I was checking the forums at least weekly before its release.

Progress shows potential results, and having the community's input or suggestions would be a great thing, IMO.
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Old 08-25-2011, 04:05 AM   #22
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Idea. After the sniper looses a round, he immediately drops to ~150 speed, slowly rising back up to 280 over 3 seconds. He can still fire in this time, but each shot will put his speed back to 150.

Oh and also drop his base speed to 280.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynian View Post
Idea. After the sniper looses a round, he immediately drops to ~150 speed, slowly rising back up to 280 over 3 seconds. He can still fire in this time, but each shot will put his speed back to 150.

Oh and also drop his base speed to 280.
Balance is key. The problem I have with your suggestions is that they come from a place of frustration, hate, and malice. You take whatever problems you have with the sniper our on it by suggesting it get its arms chopped off (metaphorically speaking of course. All though I'm surprised you have yet to suggest it)

We get that you don't like the class. We also get that it frustrates you. However just like you have your favorite classes, there are people that exist, who aren't you, that like playing as and against the sniper. Your idea directly punishes the player for shooting. It motivates the player to shoot less often. Effectively, taking the class out of the game since the best strategy for the sniper will be to shoot as rarely as possible. That doesn't sound like fun in my opinion.

Again, I understand your frustration. But try finding the exact point of your annoyance. Then think about what you wish you could do to fix it. With me, it's walking out onto the yard and getting sniped over and over. My goal here is just to help you be a little more constructive. I do respect that you want the sniper to pretty much disappear, but I vehemently disagree.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
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there are people that exist, who aren't you, that like playing as and against the sniper.
Are there people that enjoy playing against a sniper as a non-sniper class?
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:44 PM   #25
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I do when the map is set so that I can sneak out of the base. I find it to be a challenge to have to sneak up on a sniper and kill him. It requires me to move perfectly random and aim as well as I can with the longest range weapon I can in order to keep the sniper occupied while I can distance. Good snipers will aim for my foot and end this scenario early, and sadly. But that's why any suggestion I'd make to change the line up would be to make it easier to effect their aim from a longer distance.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:16 AM   #26
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I don't like what you said.

I don't like having to 'sneak' out of my base to get to the action involving what should be, in the interest of the game, anywhere from 4-8 people on defense.

I don't like having to spend an extra 20 seconds taking the water route on 2fort so I don't get instapopped by one faggot who stands 3 seconds outside spawn.

I don't like being in plain view of the enemy sniper on aardvark, with no way to reliably get past other than "go fast".

I don't like feeling like there's no reason to chase the third fastest class in the game.

So no, I don't like snipers.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynian View Post
I don't like what you said.

I don't like having to 'sneak' out of my base to get to the action involving what should be, in the interest of the game, anywhere from 4-8 people on defense.

I don't like having to spend an extra 20 seconds taking the water route on 2fort so I don't get instapopped by one faggot who stands 3 seconds outside spawn.

I don't like being in plain view of the enemy sniper on aardvark, with no way to reliably get past other than "go fast".

I don't like feeling like there's no reason to chase the third fastest class in the game.

So no, I don't like snipers.
Throw in a couple of rhymes and you could write an opinionated children's book. I agree, and understand that you don't like snipers. My only point to you has been a request for you to understand that you are not the only person who plays FF and some of those other players enjoy playing the sniper class. When two people disagree a comprise, often a reasonable one, is the best solution to create a balanced game.
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Old 08-27-2011, 08:30 PM   #28
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I want snipers removed.

You want them the same.

The compromise here is that they get toned down some.

Your passive aggressive tone punctuated with therapeutic language to try to dodge the issue in portraying my arguments as childish, while implying your own are well thought out and thus more reasonable and should be taken absolutely as they are...it simply makes me lose even more respect for you.

EDIT by squeek: *snip* No need for this
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:31 PM   #29
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Projectile sniper = the best of both worlds.
It eliminates the instakill aspect and creates a skill base for the sniper. Making the class deeper than 'point and click'.
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryLife
My only point to you has been a request for you to understand that you are not the only person who plays FF and some of those other players enjoy playing the sniper class.
I'd say your stance is unbalanced however for this reason:
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek
Are there people that enjoy playing against a sniper as a non-sniper class?
No one wants to go up against a sniper because at a long enough distance, it's always a stacked fight. Every other class is much more of a fair fight to engage. Hwguy? Conc him and watch him try to adapt. Sg? Shoot it out from a distance and ruin the ng's day, etc.

So by definition, we're saying we have a class that some people like to play, but no one likes to play against. One of the reasons I was never that interested in TF2 was because it had invulnerability, which I thought made things a little pointless. Even though NO ONE likes playing against an invulnerable player, I'm sure the people who are invincible have a great time. It's the same principle. I bet everyone who enjoys playing as sniper would cease enjoying it if they played AGAINST a good sniper as a non-sniper. Personally I don't think that's the sort of crowd the game should be balanced around.

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Projectile sniper = the best of both worlds.
It eliminates the instakill aspect and creates a skill base for the sniper. Making the class deeper than 'point and click'.
I'm not sure that would make much difference other than marginalizing the best snipers or else forcing everyone to zigzag and take 3x longer getting across a yard.

Maybe there's an obvious problem with it I'm missing, but one idea would be to have the sniper shoot poison rounds that don't kill anyone right away, but will after a given length of time. So say you're shot in the yard, you could have maybe 20 - 40 seconds left to live, then you immediately die. This could allow O to keep running and do some damage or make a flag grab, but it could definitely kneecap their potential, and make simply stalling the player a defensive tactic.
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:33 AM   #31
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Battlefield-style bullet drop on the sniper bullet
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:10 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity View Post
I'm not sure that would make much difference other than marginalizing the best snipers or else forcing everyone to zigzag and take 3x longer getting across a yard.

Maybe there's an obvious problem with it I'm missing, but one idea would be to have the sniper shoot poison rounds that don't kill anyone right away, but will after a given length of time. So say you're shot in the yard, you could have maybe 20 - 40 seconds left to live, then you immediately die. This could allow O to keep running and do some damage or make a flag grab, but it could definitely kneecap their potential, and make simply stalling the player a defensive tactic.
Testing would determine how well this would work, but it would certainly eliminate a lot of the feelings that youve been killed with 0 effort. I do understand that it can take skill in order to execute shots as the sniper, but that skill is interpreted as spam to an opposing player. If shots were to take a little time to travel, the sniper himself would have much more gratification with a kill, and the dead player would have a better understand that the sniper actually worked for his kill; That lessens the feeling that youve been camped COD style
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:44 AM   #33
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Projectile sniper = the best of both worlds.
It eliminates the instakill aspect and creates a skill base for the sniper. Making the class deeper than 'point and click'.
It would have to be finely tuned for balance though if this were to happen. Right now the sniper is the only weapon I can think of that doesn't have spread/explosion or rapid fire except for traq.

Also there's the issue of projectile weapons not hitting the center of the crosshairs. A projectile sniper would amplify this.
ex: http://i.imgur.com/v3RrB.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity View Post
Maybe there's an obvious problem with it I'm missing, but one idea would be to have the sniper shoot poison rounds that don't kill anyone right away, but will after a given length of time. So say you're shot in the yard, you could have maybe 20 - 40 seconds left to live, then you immediately die. This could allow O to keep running and do some damage or make a flag grab, but it could definitely kneecap their potential, and make simply stalling the player a defensive tactic.
Wasn't this what the medic's infection did but it was removed because it was annoying?
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Old 08-28-2011, 11:24 AM   #34
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Testing would determine how well this would work, but it would certainly eliminate a lot of the feelings that youve been killed with 0 effort. I do understand that it can take skill in order to execute shots as the sniper, but that skill is interpreted as spam to an opposing player. If shots were to take a little time to travel, the sniper himself would have much more gratification with a kill, and the dead player would have a better understand that the sniper actually worked for his kill; That lessens the feeling that youve been camped COD style
I see what you're saying, but a good sniper leads his shots on moving targets anyway. Hell, anyone experienced with tranq shots already does this. It would definitely reduce the number of kills, but I'm not sure how substantial the difference would be for the good snipers anyway. Maybe I'm overestimating though.

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Wasn't this what the medic's infection did but it was removed because it was annoying?
It would be a little different, since it wouldn't tick off health or jar your view, just start a timer. As for annoying, is that more or less annoying than dying in the yard multiple times before you even get to the base?

Last edited by chilledsanity; 08-28-2011 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 08-28-2011, 12:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
Are there people that enjoy playing against a sniper as a non-sniper class?
Yes, I do it all the game, and while not 100% of the time, I do it effectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity View Post
I'd say your stance is unbalanced however for this reason:
No one wants to go up against a sniper because at a long enough distance, it's always a stacked fight. Every other class is much more of a fair fight to engage. Hwguy? Conc him and watch him try to adapt. Sg? Shoot it out from a distance and ruin the ng's day, etc.
You're wrong because yes there are people who enjoy going up against a sniper as a non-sniper class at long distance.

I'm one of them. And I am pretty good at figuring out how to get out of the base and getting into the enemy base.

Heck even on aardvark, as a spy, I have been able to come out of the sniper deck, get across the map, get up on the enemy sniper deck and stab the snipers. And these aren't noob snipers, these are the snipers that people "complain" about being too good. Many say they are cheating, but I know better cause I can kill them and I'm not the best player out there.

Can snipers be frustrating? Yes But so can any other class when you have a decent player playing them.

I piss off people as a spy, pyro, demo, heavy and sniper. I know others that piss people off as scout, engi, soldier and medic because they are so good.


Sniper is good as is, though I do like the idea of recoil to the gun.


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Also there's the issue of projectile weapons not hitting the center of the crosshairs. A projectile sniper would amplify this.
ex: http://i.imgur.com/v3RrB.jpg
That brings up a very good point. Until this is fixed, I don't think it should be an actual projectile.
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:05 PM   #36
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That brings up a very good point. Until this is fixed, I don't think it should be an actual projectile.
The reason for this has been stated before; its because the actual projectile comes out of the gun instead of the middle of your screen. It would make sense while the sniper is on your hip, but when in zoomed mode, the bullet should then come out of the center. (Or at least, appear to)
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:17 PM   #37
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Ok, if the sights on your real life gun are off.... you adjust them until they are spot on. Right or wrong?
The crosshair is there to show you where you're aiming. If the aim isn't true, then it needs to be fixed. If that means moving the crosshairs off to the side a bit to match, then do it.
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Old 08-28-2011, 08:04 PM   #38
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It's only off at close ranges. It converges on the crosshair over distance.
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Old 08-28-2011, 08:19 PM   #39
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The reason for this has been stated before; its because the actual projectile comes out of the gun instead of the middle of your screen. It would make sense while the sniper is on your hip, but when in zoomed mode, the bullet should then come out of the center. (Or at least, appear to)
Another source engine mod I play Dystopia has projectile weapons also that come out from the gun but still hits at the crosshair. Maybe a developer can look at it and see/ask how they fixed it?
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Old 08-28-2011, 11:01 PM   #40
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If it's a projectile, it will A) have to hit things and B) be basically instant at close/medium range.
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