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Old 01-24-2010, 08:31 AM   #21
chilledsanity
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squeek.: I was in fact, arguing that I believe they're about at their maximums already. Also I think if the infection didn't kill you, it could actually lower the chances of self-suiciding (though probably by a negligent amount). You're only causing a problem to your team if they get near you. If you're a hwguy blazing away while infected, you should probably stay alive until you get killed. And while I realize this is a completely alien concept to FF players, this could, in fact, encourage medics on your own team to heal you more and get rid of the infection.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity View Post
And while I realize this is a completely alien concept to FF players, this could, in fact, encourage medics on your own team to heal you more and get rid of the infection.
This, though, I think, would require a bit more tooling of the medic to change him from a "heavier offense" role to a "defensive, I am a contribution to the team" role. ATM just about anyone playing Medic is looking for an offensive role
(lets face it, there aren't THAT many new players trying to buff the team atm).
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:31 AM   #23
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squeek.: I was in fact, arguing that I believe they're about at their maximums already.
That can't be true for infection. If it is, there is no reason for it.

You're putting yourself and your team at a potential disadvantage if you suicide immediately/indiscriminately after infection. You could be letting someone pass through your position that you could/should have stopped before dying. Without spreading, suicide is not automatically the best option if you get infected. It is situational. With spreading and infected friendly-fire (as Scuzzy was suggesting), immediate suicide would almost automatically be the best option (unless you're completely by yourself and have no chance of running into a teammate).
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:08 PM   #24
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What about something like this....

First hit with the infection does 2 damage, and then every 3 seconds it doubles. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128. So in about 18 seconds the player has the potential to die. Faster if they already have damage. If another enemy medic hit you with infection, it resets it to the start.

While infected you have a slight conc effect going on (you get dizzy) It doesn't have to be much, just something to slightly toss off the aim.

Infection can be spread, but when it spreads its a less lethal version double every 6 seconds, but only to a max of 8 damage. It can also only spread when it does the actual damage to the player. Main infected has red stuff floating around them, anyone they infect gets the green stuff.

No infection can spread while in spawn. This was the main problem everyone had because people would get infected on purpose and then just run around in the spawn infecting others on his own team.
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:12 PM   #25
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Change infection so that it does less (or even 0) damage, but the infected can't recover health from a resupply or backpack.
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek.
That can't be true for infection. If it is, there is no reason for it.
Dude, it's really prevalent these days if you've tried infecting people. Depending on the game, I'd say the odds of someone suiciding from being infected are about 50%. 100% for specific players. As for the reason, my guess is it's one or both of the following:

1. People don't like having their health tick down, knowing that they're going to die. For snipers, this also disrupts their aim.

or what I think is more likely:

2. People don't want to yield the kill to the person who infected them.
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:58 PM   #27
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There is another reason...

You know there is no medic or at useless medic who won't heal and you don't want to be stuck around the respawn room and you want to get back into the fighting asap.


And yes Squeek, outside of clan/league play (aka Pub play where you get all the players for clan and league play) it happens quite often.

I'll grenade myself just to get it over with or get the damage down faster just so that I can get back into the fight because 95% or more of the time when I call for a medic, there is none or there is only a useless one. I seen one game where there was actually 3 medics... they all ran past an infected person who died seconds later.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:22 PM   #28
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For instance, someone mentioned an implementation along the lines of: "Have the infection deal x amount of damage over time until it has damaged for [max damage]. If the infected manages to survive the infection, he is rewarded with some of his health back."
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:47 PM   #29
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I'd say the odds of someone suiciding from being infected are about 50%.
That certainly isn't the maximum. Plus, even if 100% of pub players do suicide immediately on infection, the prevalence is still not at a maximum because pickup players pick their suicides semi-carefully, especially when infected.

You can rationalize the choice to kill yourself when infected all you want (there are certainly reasons to do so), but without spreading, it's impossible to rationalize indiscriminate/automatic suicide. Therefore, infection spreading would be able to (and would) encourage an increase in the prevalence of immediate suicide.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:57 PM   #30
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I just think the hit detection needs to be fixed and it will be perfect I like it how it is because you have to wait for the opportune moment to suicide while playing defense
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:11 PM   #31
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I think one of the points is that having to kill yourself is counter-intuitive and unintended. I like the suggestion to have it deal damage up until a maximum, then give some of that health back if the player survives. This allow the Medic a kill if he can complement it with skill, but also allows the defender to survive if he can prevent (through various means) taking too much damage.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:49 AM   #32
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I think it's fine just the way it is, hit detection improvements excepted.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:54 AM   #33
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How about making it so the person that gets infected has reduced aim, or some type of inhibitor to his aim. In my experience people usually like to infect that annoying fatty sitting at the top of the ff_destroy ramp when they're about to die and can't make it to the flag room. It's a 'I'm about to die, but not before I piss off this fatty' mentality, there's no real strategy, there's no real motivation to actually use the medpack.

In this case, the fatty isn't really punished, it's more of an annoyance, just run to the spawn and resup. Even on other maps where the fatty won't have much access to a respawn, he'll just intentionally left himself die faster, and he'll be right back in the flag room. By the time he's back in the flag room, the offense will just have gotten back to the base, and it'll start all over again. Infecting players (and subsequently killing them) should provide a bigger bonus to the offense team, rather than a single defensive player being out of place for a mere 5-10 seconds.

Making it so the infected person shoots slower, or with less accuracy would provide a net benefit (to offense) rather than a short-lived, often suicide-inducing mechanic for defense--and to make it so it's not too overpowered, you could make it kill the infected person after a period of time. Instead of doing a static 8 damage a second, make it so;

-The initial damage caused is negligible, 1-2 damage every 5 seconds or something.
-After an extended period of time (1:30-2:00?) the infection starts to ravage the infected, and they being taking massive amounts of damage (20-30) every 5 or so seconds, and it becomes stackable, or perhaps even more powerful.

Obviously this would be impossible to survive (without being cured by a friendly medic), but it adds a whole new dimension to infecting, rather than a 'I'm about to die, I'm gonna piss off this guy before I go out' mechanic.

As for a spreading mechanic, you could make it so other team members could 'catch' the infection, but only if the non-infected team member is close to the infected for a fair amount of time (3-5? seconds) so that traffic jams at the respawn door don't turn into grief-fests/rage quits. You could also implement a similiar mechanic with 'curing' an infected person, say, when a medic cures an infection, the infected could carry around the antibody for a decent amount of time, and anyone else who is infected could become cured by standing around the recently-cured. Make the antibody stick for like 30-45 seconds.

I dunno, just suggestions.
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:51 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
That certainly isn't the maximum. Plus, even if 100% of pub players do suicide immediately on infection, the prevalence is still not at a maximum because pickup players pick their suicides semi-carefully, especially when infected.

You can rationalize the choice to kill yourself when infected all you want (there are certainly reasons to do so), but without spreading, it's impossible to rationalize indiscriminate/automatic suicide. Therefore, infection spreading would be able to (and would) encourage an increase in the prevalence of immediate suicide.
Come on man, don't be obtuse. By maximum, I meant "realistic" maximum, not theoretical maximum. Here, I'll clarify:

I can't speak for pickup games, but in pubs, I think the practice is about as prevalent as it will ever be and changes to the class won't cause them to go any higher. If anything, if the ensured death aspect is removed, it could possibly cause them to go down. A sniper or hwguy who's infected may to decide to wait it out and just hold is ground if he knows he won't always die from the infection.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity View Post
Come on man, don't be obtuse. By maximum, I meant "realistic" maximum, not theoretical maximum. Here, I'll clarify:

I can't speak for pickup games, but in pubs, I think the practice is about as prevalent as it will ever be and changes to the class won't cause them to go any higher. If anything, if the ensured death aspect is removed, it could possibly cause them to go down. A sniper or hwguy who's infected may to decide to wait it out and just hold is ground if he knows he won't always die from the infection.
The prevalence being at a maximum is a secondary point (though I still disagree with you about it). More importantly, do you think that the prevalence of infection-related suicides decreasing is a good thing or a bad thing? I say it's a good thing.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:28 PM   #36
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This noob has a novel solution to the suicide issue.

Make any suicides while burning or infected count as a kill for the infecting Medic and igniting Pyro. This removes the "I will not let them get these cheap points off of me" suicide mentality. Since suicides still count as you losing, infecteds and people on fire are more prone to tough it out and fight.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:48 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Eon Seig View Post
This noob has a novel solution to the suicide issue.

Make any suicides while burning or infected count as a kill for the infecting Medic and igniting Pyro. This removes the "I will not let them get these cheap points off of me" suicide mentality. Since suicides still count as you losing, infecteds and people on fire are more prone to tough it out and fight.
in Pickups K ratio doesn't matter,what matter is which team has the most caps. You can't just think about PUBs, you also gotta factor in PUGs as well.

it depends on the situation that the person who is infected is in. If he just got infected and knows another player is coming, he most likely will not kill himself, but take out the other guy first, then kill himself. Or, do both at once.

I would say add back in spreading, just do not allow it to spread in re-spawns.

@Squeek: Yea, in pubs you'll see people just ride out the infection, which pretty much makes it pointless. If it's 11v11 game and the everyone is playing properly, infection is mute. As, it gets chaotic as all hell with nades being thrown everywhere.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:21 PM   #38
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I like the idea of health decreasing only to a certain percentage.

I'm not saying "put this in too," just posting other thoughts/ideas:

- lower the amount of damage the infection takes (somewhat) and add a visual impeding effect. Not a modified conc effect, but a new one.

- don't bring back infection spreading. This is coming from a medic who enjoys infecting people. It's fun for the medic, but this slows down gameplay. Because of spread, things seem to change from defend the flag to don't touch anyone, find a distant corner, call for medic, etc. Maybe even get called on for griefing unintentionally... What's the point? Just annoyance. All this if you don't just kill yourself, of course.

- And I don't want to derail this too much, but giving a health boost just does not seem as useful as it could be. The game seems too fast paced to take the time to boost someone's health over 100 that decreases by the time it would have been beneficial.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:42 PM   #39
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BRING BACK INFECTION SPREAD!!!

That is all.
a big fat YES to that.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:53 PM   #40
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I like the medic just the way he is. There's not issue with this class.

Also, I'm starting to disagree with a lot of the topics you bring up as you've not played the classes you complain about enough to actually understand how they work.

I'm not coming back to this topic so don't bother replying to me. You want to talk this discussion over, I'd rather you show me in game then to spam your fingers all over your keyboard every 5 seconds.
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