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Old 11-29-2011, 08:52 PM   #41
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I don't think we need to start another endless conversation about OT. Thew two opposing sides will never agree.

As far as players go, people don't want to play anymore. The people that do play are waiting for more people to play, like myself. I log on and see no one there so I log off and check again later. I do this until people are playing, but very rarely do I find a server with people on it. People says bots would help, because they would get people to play on a server with no one else playing and boost the numbers up slowly. I know I can only play with bots for so long before I crave human conversation. The game is fun, but only with people playing. I say the game is fun the way it is. Without changes. The basics are all there. There are little things that can change and improve, but there always are. Freaking out and screaming about those little things have most likely caused the most harm. But that's in the past.

Money for advertising is silly. But spreading the word isn't bad. When an update comes out we get players, because we get attention. We need more attention that's all.
It also doesn't help that a couple of the more popular servers have altered the last patch to their own versions.

I agree that we need some good promotion, it's just that aside from Twitter and Facebook, I don't really know where else to promote the game. I mention it occasionally on D2F's forums, and we do get a couple of players come in for a bit.

I don't mind hitting servers, but I have the same problem you do... nothing but unpopulated servers. The only thing I can think of, is that we organize an "Occupy FF Servers", where we join a server or two, and see if we can get people to join. Do this at some specified times, rather than just randomly. Let's start a poll, and find out when the most people are available, and go from there.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:45 AM   #42
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It also doesn't help that a couple of the more popular servers have altered the last patch to their own versions.
In my opinion that is one of the first things to address, I've been playing a long time and I know most of the public community, and up to 2.43 I was on most days playing on whatever server was available, I remember taking a year off though when I was banned from OT, for a year, but once that was over I became a regular OT player. Anyway, after 2.43 I played for about a month, enjoying the new features until I noticed the custom changes to 2.43 on different servers, not suble changes, but replacing grenades, removing things completely and drastically changing certain things, like the Overpressure on Talos I 'think' it was, became super powerful.

After that, it felt like when going between servers that I was playing completely different versions of the game, one of the turning points for me was when I first went on a server that I didn't know had been altered, and I went to throw a slow grenade near me on Startec I believe and I ended up throwing a mirv, not just a mirv, but a super powered mirv... I wasn't pleased, and I ended up completely losing interest in playing because of the lack of consistency. And since around that time I have turned on FF once and I played for an hour, infact I turn on Steam itself about once every 1 - 2 months. And I used to be on the forum daily, but now it's more like once a month just to see what's going on, if that.

I really want to become a regular player again because I miss the game and I miss the community moreso, chatting in game was half of the fun, good banter, but I can't play a game and enjoy it if all of the popular servers change the version around to their liking. I don't want to go to a different server and need to adjust my playing style or tactics because grenades have been changed or certain so-so features have become super powerful. Especially on a game so small.

I hope it can be fixed, user-side changes are fine, like skins, sounds and such, but server-side changes to core gameplay are a big no-no. It shouldn't be physically aloud.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:33 PM   #43
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I agree that t causes a huge problem when servers are playing different versions of the game. How do you get used to the changes when you don't have a chance to play with them? Right now it is frequent that a server only has players for a short time and then what? You finally get the gist of the slow shield only to have the last server remaining only offer a mirv, or nothing. That gets you killed and makes you frustrated. Also makes you look like a newb and if that server has jerks playing on it then they start ragging on you.

It is a difficult problem to fix however. These servers are owned by these players. They have a right to play them how they choose. An appeal to them, an explanation of the consequences is all. But it can't be a whiny bunch of crap. It has to be a serious concern.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:37 PM   #44
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I ended up throwing a mirv, not just a mirv, but a super powered mirv...
Utter luxury.. i miss those days
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:57 PM   #45
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Absolute has the right idea here. Those are all very viable options. If you guys want some media then start sending me any demos with any good frags or concs/caps. Pub or pick up I don't care. It'd take for ever if I limited myself to pick ups. I post a video on reddit and that's good advertisement. We could also make a ff sub reddit. Being an indie game is really in right now, and those reddit kids are all about supporting indie games. Alot of gamers right now are just begging for a competitive game with a high skill ceiling, we jusy have to show it to them.
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:27 PM   #46
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I don't think I've ever seen a game that's as customizable as FF. What's the deal with all these ffdev_ CVARs where you can basically change every aspect of the game. I'm a web developer during the day, so I know the mindset behind why they are there. What I don't understand is why they are available to the outside world.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:31 PM   #47
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I don't think I've ever seen a game that's as customizable as FF. What's the deal with all these ffdev_ CVARs where you can basically change every aspect of the game. I'm a web developer during the day, so I know the mindset behind why they are there. What I don't understand is why they are available to the outside world.
They all require sv_cheats to be on. I'm not sure if TALOS is using a server plugin to get around that.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:04 PM   #48
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You're probably right. In past patches we commented out all ffdev_ vars in the release build. We stopped doing that because we were making heavy use of the vars in beta and we didn't think it'd be a big deal to leave them in if they required sv_cheats.

The player/weapon scripts are default to Source mods, but we could potentially move those values to code as well.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:45 AM   #49
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The only change I have ever welcomed was one that multiple popular servers introduced, which was an addition, bringing back the Spies secondary gas grenade.

It wasn't a game-changing addition, it was just a feature that many people had become accustomed to and didn't really know why it got removed in 2.4, It allows the spy to disrupt defenders, create distractions and slip past enemy players. Which are all positives.

That wasn't a bad change in my opinion, but what the servers did and I assume still do after the 2.42/3 patch are game-changing additions. And much more obvious, especially since they mainly targetted the brand new features that everyone wanted to play with. The devs worked bloody hard to make the new grenades and features, and I sat in on some of the live streams of Squeek working on FF, seeing him overcome the problems he faced and working in his spare time to get the patch ready. And then after release some servers make custom changes that reverse all of that work Squeek did and the other devs.

I remember when it had just been released and I joined Squeek and some of the other devs alongside some regular pub and pickup players in their new FF server showcasing the brand new patch. And we had a lot of fun with it.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:29 AM   #50
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I say we Occupy Talos.........

Lets make the Talos server the defacto server for everyone in the FF forum community to use. It is the best all around server in my views and you will not get banned for language. There are a few rules as of any server but none that take away from the purity or the fun factor from FF.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:56 AM   #51
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Lets make the Talos server the defacto server for everyone in the FF forum community to use. It is the best all around server in my views and you will not get banned for language. There are a few rules as of any server but none that take away from the purity or the fun factor from FF.
I went on FF last night, and joined Talos first, and it was hard to play on, so many settings have been changed, jump pads launch you huge distances, the nail grenade is obviously there, and super powered, and just generally the movement seemed alien to me, I was failing to conc half of the time.

The two "main" servers, as in Talos and OT have different playerbases completely, the majority of the regular OT players will rarely or never join Talos. And the majority of Talos players are probably banned from OT... I say leave it up to the player where they want to play, two completely different environments that suit different people, with variables such as maturity, the style of gameplay, welcome to new players, respect and more. The only thing they have in common is being on Fortress Forever.

Also, what are the "few rules" of Talos?, I'm curious.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:03 PM   #52
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Lets make the Talos server the defacto server for everyone in the FF forum community to use. It is the best all around server in my views and you will not get banned for language. There are a few rules as of any server but none that take away from the purity or the fun factor from FF.
No, but you will apparently get banned for pointing out that they changed settings on their server and disagreeing with the changes. Lol. You can't have purity without having the base game. This goes for the O-T server too.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:24 PM   #53
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I understand how OT included NEO FF in their server title, but come on. you can't turn the only server (hypothetically) into a NEO FF server. People haven't even learned the original game let alone some funky NEO FF SHIT (hypothetical shit). Squeek please put a stop to these blasphemous atrocities.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:48 PM   #54
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Lets make the Talos server the defacto server for everyone in the FF forum community to use. It is the best all around server in my views and you will not get banned for language. There are a few rules as of any server but none that take away from the purity or the fun factor from FF.
I agree with Freak. You can't call Talos a "pure" server, when they are running their own modifications of the game. There were several lengthy discussions on the matter. Here is a link to the public discussion:

Click It.

We also had a rather heated discussion of it on the beta forum, which I won't bring out publicly.

I have played on Talos before, and they do seem like a decent lot over there. But I won't play where core elements of the game have been altered.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:23 PM   #55
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No, but you will apparently get banned for pointing out that they changed settings on their server and disagreeing with the changes. Lol. You can't have purity without having the base game. This goes for the O-T server too.
Bullcrap, OT people will not ban you for pointing out those change.

If you are really rude and break their rules (which there are not many, mainly no swearing, no racist crap, no cheating) then you will get banned, but as many have said many times which people here seem to ignore, only after MANY warnings.


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I understand how OT included NEO FF in their server title, but come on. you can't turn the only server (hypothetically) into a NEO FF server. People haven't even learned the original game let alone some funky NEO FF SHIT (hypothetical shit). Squeek please put a stop to these blasphemous atrocities.
OT didn't add in a bunch of stuff that made the game play totally different then how it ever was. All OT did was put the nail grenade back in instead of the laser grenade, put back the gas grenade and swapped out the slow grenade for the mirv again.

They didn't raise any of the damages, they didn't make the jump pads go father, they just put some of the things back to how they were in a previous patch. They kept the heavy air blast or what ever you want to call it. They kept the jump pads just the way they were in the patch.

Talos from my understanding is the only server that changed the values of what certain things do to make them do far more damage, or throw people father.


This is one of the biggest problems with the community, some of the more vocal individuals make accusations against servers they don't like, and the devs of this forum, who know those accusations are 100% WRONG don't do anything about it. You guys need to actually do something and do it fast when it comes to crap accusations like the 2 I quoted here.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:56 PM   #56
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Bullcrap, OT people will not ban you for pointing out those change.

If you are really rude and break their rules (which there are not many, mainly no swearing, no racist crap, no cheating) then you will get banned, but as many have said many times which people here seem to ignore, only after MANY warnings.
Sorry, the sentence was unclear. TALOS banned me for this. Reading through the thread on their forums complaining about me and others who disagreed with their changes was actually kind of hilarious. I'm not banned on O-T, and when I play FF, O-T is where I play, mostly because it's the only public server left aside from TALOS.

The comment about O-T was in reference to purity of the game. And indeed, they do not have a pure game. The server runs some weird version that sits between the actual 2.43 patch and the previous major patch. The part that annoys me the most is the switch from the slow grenade back to the MIRV. The slow grenade is so much more useful to the HW Guy than MIRVs.

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Old 12-02-2011, 10:37 PM   #57
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Sorry, the sentence was unclear. TALOS banned me for this. Reading through the thread on their forums complaining about me and others who disagreed with their changes was actually kind of hilarious. I'm not banned on O-T, and when I play FF, O-T is where I play, mostly because it's the only public server left aside from TALOS.

The comment about O-T was in reference to purity of the game. And indeed, they do not have a pure game. The server runs some weird version that sits between the actual 2.43 patch and the previous major patch. The part that annoys me the most is the switch from the slow grenade back to the MIRV. The slow grenade is so much more useful to the HW Guy than MIRVs.
Ahh ok, sorry about that first part then.


Personally I'm not a big fan of the slow grenade, I don't find it very useful, even while playing against it, I didn't find it did much to actually stop me as much as a mirv in the same place did.

Maybe if the person didn't speed back up to the speed they were going before they hit the slow grenade it would be more useful. Basically they hit the field and get slowed down to say half walking speed, then when they exit the field they speed back up to regular walking speed even if they were going someone going 100 times walking speed. Course it also effects a very small area, so if the area was double, again it would be far more useful.

Its too bad we can't have both. Say like 4 regular grenades, 1 mirv and 1 or 2 slow grenades (with the changes I suggested).

That would make for a far more effective and scary defense.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:18 PM   #58
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Hit people while they are moving through the slowfield and they will be slower when they come out the other side.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:50 PM   #59
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Ahh ok, sorry about that first part then.


Personally I'm not a big fan of the slow grenade, I don't find it very useful, even while playing against it, I didn't find it did much to actually stop me as much as a mirv in the same place did.

Maybe if the person didn't speed back up to the speed they were going before they hit the slow grenade it would be more useful. Basically they hit the field and get slowed down to say half walking speed, then when they exit the field they speed back up to regular walking speed even if they were going someone going 100 times walking speed. Course it also effects a very small area, so if the area was double, again it would be far more useful.

Its too bad we can't have both. Say like 4 regular grenades, 1 mirv and 1 or 2 slow grenades (with the changes I suggested).

That would make for a far more effective and scary defense.
The reason the slow grenade is better than the MIRV is because of how long it lasts and what it does. Admittedly, it was much better before they nerfed the radius/duration. Personally, I think the radius could have been changed and the duration left alone... but oh well.

MIRVs are good for taking out multiple enemies or blocking an area for a few seconds. But it's not good at all against concers or other people moving fast. If someone is hit by a slow grenade, it's enough of a slowdown to kill them with the assault cannon. It's best used in areas where it is difficult or impossible to dodge. Openfire and destroy are some good examples. And as squeek said, the assault cannon slows people down. It's just hard to hit people enough to slow them down a lot. But with the slow grenade, that becomes easy.

It's even better when used with teamwork, particularly demomen. Drop that thing on or near the flag while a demo pipes it and you can lock it down.

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Old 12-04-2011, 04:36 AM   #60
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Yeah I had a really hard time on Destroy when the patch first came out, I was attacking against a Demo, Heavy and Engi/SG. And a well timed slow grenade on the flag was just death to me. If the Demo didn't blow his pipes, the Heavy and/or SG just ripped me apart as I was floating towards the flag.

I like the slow grenade, it makes more sense, like the Demo having the Mirv, he is the Demoman, specializing in demolition and explosives. And the Mirv is a big ass explosive grenade, which fits nicely alongside the pipe launcher and generally suits the purpose of that class. The same way that the Engineer has the EMP, electrical based. And the Pyro has the Napalm, fire based.

The Heavy's main weapon is just a huge gun firing normal bullets, and the idea of a Heavy Weapons Guy is that he packs a punch, fills you with lead and can take punishment. But having excessive amounts of explosives is the job of the Demoman, not the Heavy. The slow grenade is there to help the Heavy mow down enemies which is his primary job. And I like its tactical purpose, used well it is good. If anything, the Nail grenade actually links with the Heavy better than the Mirv, but that's too weak.

If the slow grenade isn't popular or working well enough, what else could be used that would work with the purpose of the Heavy class, without basing the grenade design on another classes speciality, such as Explosive, Fire or Electrical. Needs to be different.

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