Engineer Buildable Ideas - gogogo?

[chilledsanity]

I may be in the minority, but I personally don't care at about achievements in any game, they just seem pointless to me. Sometimes it's fun to see stats on my game to see what my playstyle is, but that's about it. Has anyone played a game for achievements that they wouldn't be playing otherwise?

[episkopos]

I'm okay with achievements if they encourage people to play. I'm not really concerned with them myself though. I only object to them when they are prerequisites for unlocking items.

[FreaK367]

You don't play a game FOR the achievements, they are just incentives to try new things and help you get involved.

I used to play Killing Floor, for example, quite often and I never took much notice of the achievements and eventually lost interest last year sometime, but this year I was looking through my games and seen Killing Floor has 138 achievements, I was looking through them and some of them seemed quite challenging so I decided to give it a go again, and I ended up really enjoying the game and started playing regularly again not focussing on the achievements. It can get people interested.

Without the achievements I doubt I would have gave it another go, but it made me a regular player again and showed me why I used to enjoy it so much, same thing happened with PVKII, Dystopia and other games.

Talking of achievements, I think it was zE Palace, where zE set up a website that had all of the stats, league board, and lots of achievements, overall achievements for being good, and daily ones like most kills daily with this weapon etc.. and it even had a progression system where you progress through different badges with score like those you get in the millitary. Little things, but it made for a rewarding experience after playing his server to see your complete progression on a website.

Most of the good games on steam have achievements, such as CS:S, DoD:s and the popular mods. I think it would be good for FF, if we could ever get on steam... otherwise second best would be website driven achievements.

And a league board of stats for the entire game would be good too.

[Dexter]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I may be in the minority, but I personally don't care at about achievements in any game, they just seem pointless to me. Sometimes it's fun to see stats on my game to see what my playstyle is, but that's about it. Has anyone played a game for achievements that they wouldn't be playing otherwise?

I like progressive, or stats type of achievements.

but those ones where its like, get a backflip 180 headshot with the railgun while underwater at 1hp shit is stupid. you know, I am not even bothered by the tools sitting in a server just trying stuff, but its crazy to think of the fact the server is keeping track of all those achievement states too (e: game depending as some TF2 players are aware somethings are client side .. :P)

[eomoyaff]

Trip-Wire Bombs? The more I think about it, the more it could work. Put your imagination to the test. If you don't know what a trip-wire bomb is, then google image it or something. Hell, the bomb has been featured in a lot of games..

[FreaK367]

Originally Posted by eomoyaff

Trip-Wire Bombs? The more I think about it, the more it could work. Put your imagination to the test. If you don't know what a trip-wire bomb is, then google image it or something. Hell, the bomb has been featured in a lot of games..

Not sure it would work in such a fast paced game like Fortress Forever, we already have demomen sitting in a corner piping the flag ready to right click and kill anything, people would on many maps, put a trip bomb right over the flag, so it would act like an automatic pipe detonation. It would give the defense another powerful weapon. And if it was to be added, it would make more sense to be a Demo buildable, due to the nature of the trip wire bomb.

In my opinion, any additional buildable for the Engineer should be something to protect the SG or enhance it, rather than another automatic weapon the attack needs to deal with.

[episkopos]

I always imagined tripmines as something for the Sniper's secondary grenade. He'd lay them across doorways. Enemy players could deactivate them, possibly by shooting them or standing next to them for a second or two, but that would leave them vulnerable for the time it took, and they'd also lose all their momentum from concs and bhopping. The explosion would do less damage than a regular grenade, and the tripmine would disintegrate after a fairly short period of time.

[chilledsanity]

Tripmines in other games like Jedi Knight, Science & Industry, Quake Wars, etc. are some of the most fun I've had online. Considering the speeds hit in FF, I think they would be fantastic for the mod.

[FreaK367]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Tripmines in other games like Jedi Knight, Science & Industry, Quake Wars, etc. are some of the most fun I've had online. Considering the speeds hit in FF, I think they would be fantastic for the mod.

We'd only really know by trying it, there's positives and negatives to it, it would either go down well with everyone, or people would start to hate it like they do with the sniper rifle or dispenser defense.

[eomoyaff]

You guys make me laugh, a lot.

Bridget & Raynian: Simple Rule - If you don't like the state of the game...

a)Stop playing it,

b) FF carries influences from its' ancestrial background, but it is its' own game. Why make a game like another game when you can just go play the original of that game you want to make it out to be?? It'd be a waste of time to make a copy (And this is certianly not a copy.)

On Subject:

-Trip-wire Bombs-
Chille: I KNOW RIGHT?! I've had that idea in the back of my head and can just visualize how it would go down. It'd be so useful on both sides of the map (O or D.) It would add more flavor to AvD maps as well.

Episkopos: The Tripwire should lay out the same amount of damage as the EMP. It's electrical based sensoring. It should have a timer on it incase nothing crosses it, and it should definitely be destroyable by stronger weaponry (to be fair.)

Freak: I hate you. You're negative. Also the Tripwire would be a nice addition for the Engi. As I stated above it's Electrical based sensoring. When you think about it -- Engi: Rail Gun? EMP? Both electrical. If it were just a mine, then ya, demo. But Tripwire's can be HACKED by Spies. It makes more sense that way!

[Iggy]

When I think of trip mines, the ones in HL1 come to mind. Those would be a good addition, I think, because the beam that trips them is visible. You couldn't just place them anywhere and expect them to be effective. I see the point about dropping them by the flag, but.... if it was a Snipers secondary explosive, it would mean they'd have to run from spawn, to the flagroom, set it/them up, then run back outside to snipe. I highly doubt that would happen, unless you had a serious griefer on the server.

[FreaK367]

Originally Posted by eomoyaff

Freak: I hate you. You're negative. Also the Tripwire would be a nice addition for the Engi. As I stated above it's Electrical based sensoring. When you think about it -- Engi: Rail Gun? EMP? Both electrical. If it were just a mine, then ya, demo. But Tripwire's can be HACKED by Spies. It makes more sense that way!

Haha, you seem angry, I've been very positive to other ideas in this thread, I'm just being honest, I'd love to buff your ideas and make you think I'm a cool guy, but I would be lying to myself. Remember, everything I say is just my opinion on the matter, nothing more. I already got a mouth full of this from you in FF, so I was expecting this kind of thing on the forum.

Unless it explodes into an electrical blast, then it would suit a Demo. Think about the Demoman yellow pipes, they are electrical, in order for the demo to trigger something on his gun in order to automatically detonate his pipes, the yellow pipes themselves require some electrical parts in order to receive the signal from the gun.

The Trip Wire idea just seems like automatic yellow pipes that can be hacked. Would it really add a feature to FF that people would otherwise feel was missing?


P.s. I had no idea you were Moya before you mentioned it within the game, for some reason the word "moya" didn't stand out whenever I read "eomoyaff" :/, so if I have questioned several of your ideas, which you suggested in game, then it was purely based on the idea, and not on you having the idea, because I had no idea it was Moya.

[Bridget]

a)Stop playing it,

I already did.

[Dexter]

Originally Posted by Bridget

I already did.

one day you'll stop posting too!

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by FreaK367

We'd only really know by trying it, there's positives and negatives to it, it would either go down well with everyone, or people would start to hate it like they do with the sniper rifle or dispenser defense.

I think the FF community will hate / love ANY change. The question is are the complaints legitimate or just somebody not wanting to change anything. The biggest thing I think tripmines would change would that be you really couldn't have lone scouts carrying the entire team anymore and running in and out of the flagroom in record times. There would HAVE to be someone running interference or disabling the mines which would slow the game down more. Personally I'm in favor of it, but since FF has been so O-centric for so long, I can see where tripmines on top of the other changes might be overcorrecting things.

Originally Posted by eoyomaff

Bridget & Raynian: Simple Rule - If you don't like the state of the game...

a)Stop playing it,

b) FF carries influences from its' ancestrial background, but it is its' own game. Why make a game like another game when you can just go play the original of that game you want to make it out to be?? It'd be a waste of time to make a copy (And this is certianly not a copy.)

Well even though he can have good and well-explained points, Bridget sometimes flames people and has more radical ideas than I think most FF players want (I do NOT want spawn delays). Raynian, on the other hand, I haven't seen make a post that didn't sound like the gospel truth about the mod. I think in both their cases (and my own), we're all in favor of fixes for the mod that take the shortest time to complete BEFORE making more radical changes and features that could take much longer.

Originally Posted by eoyomaff

-Trip-wire Bombs-
Chille: I KNOW RIGHT?! I've had that idea in the back of my head and can just visualize how it would go down. It'd be so useful on both sides of the map (O or D.) It would add more flavor to AvD maps as well.

I think it would definitely be skewed towards defense, the way the jump pad is skewed towards offense, but I kind of think they could use a boost like that to help even things out.

[zE]

Mines FTW, that wont kill you but do significant damage D:

[Raynian]

Originally Posted by zE

Mines FTW, that wont kill you but do significant damage D:

This sounds awfully like some other FPS I play :o

And there's no way FF could implement mines to be nearly as fun as Tribes.

But, eh. Motion sensor mines in FF would basically just act as a demoman with an autodet hack, which wouldn't really help things out much.

[Crazycarl]

Proximity mines aren't interesting from a design perspective. There's not much variation in what you can do with a mine:

• put it on the objective
• put it in chokepoints
• put it behind a corner
• put it randomly on the floor

That's roughly in descending order of effectiveness, so when we balance it we should assume that it's on the flag, and somehow make that not a dominant strategy. If we nerf it to the point that it's not overpowered on the flag, it will be underpowered everywhere else.

We want everything to be as interactive as possible--which means your actions affect what your enemy does, and they influence you, and so on. However, there's really no way to discourage or prevent an engy from putting mines in the best spot if he wants to. HL2 tripmines were great, but that was a much more chaotic game. As repetitive as FF is, players will quickly find the most exploitable spots to place one.

In beta, we tried out a grenade for soldier that didn't do damage, but made the enemy lose all forward momentum and pop up into the air. It wasn't that great as a grenade, but as a buildable mine it might work.

[episkopos]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

That's roughly in descending order of effectiveness, so when we balance it we should assume that it's on the flag, and somehow make that not a dominant strategy. If we nerf it to the point that it's not overpowered on the flag, it will be underpowered everywhere else.

What about having a radius around the flag where tripmines can't be placed?

[FreaK367]

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

In beta, we tried out a grenade for soldier that didn't do damage, but made the enemy lose all forward momentum and pop up into the air. It wasn't that great as a grenade, but as a buildable mine it might work.

That actually sounds quite good.., like an EMP mine, but minus the damage. It is quite effective when you manage to EMP a scout or any class, and you have an SG around, just throws them into the air and lets your SG take care of them.

So it would suit an engineer with the nature of the mine being partly similar to an EMP.

With that function, the mine could be like a flat disk slightly risen from the floor, with a similar circumference to a level 3 SG edge to edge.

Some variables. (all of these still throw the person in the air and stop movement) (and I assume all could be destroyed by enemy fire)

*) Explosive, (detonates itself) and does a small amount of damage, (half a grenade?)

*) Spring, does no damage and rips itself a part when the mine is set off.

*) Spring, after going off it remains in a state where the mine is open and unusable, and an Engineer must re-activate it using 200 cells?, maybe more or less.

That's all I can think of at the moment.