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Old 08-11-2010, 02:42 AM   #1
eomoyaff
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Suggestional Fixes for the Sniper.

Before you read all of this, know that everything suggested below serves as a complete package. Any attempts to really change anything will also change the way other things may work in contrast to one another.

Here's the package:

1.) Remove the charged shot. Make it like a shotgun. You press the mouse button and it fires. No holding down before firing. Instead add a small delay before the next shot.

2.) Lower the damage max to 35.

3.) Add a steady hand system - Basically while in a scoped mode, the laser will move around a bit until the aim adjust to a steady hand.

4.) Add a medium range scope to the AR.

5.) Give the AR clips of ammo like a shotgun.

6.) Give the AR more Ammo.

7.) Add caltrops to the Sniper.

8.) Replace his nailgun with a shotgun.

9.) Give the Sniper the Spies HP and ARMOR.

10.) While not scoped the Sniper Rifle cross hair would be larger and more spread out. Meaning that if he comes point blank with an enemy it will do 35 damage close with delays before shots as it says in # 1).

11.) Give the Sniper a Skill, like the other classes. I prefer adding the tag hit as a special skill. When you press your skill button with the sniper rifle equipped, it will tag the enemy.

12.) Head shots are immediate deaths.


It practically turns the Sniper into a more an Marksman-like Assault Class. His Un-steady hand shot would be good enough to take down a SG, and he'd be able to take out soldiers and other defenses while infiltrating bases. Playing defense wouldn't be bad either. It's not much of a threat from across the yard as it was but it allows the sniper to plan his tactics out. He can drop caltrops on choke point and light someone up with his now-scoped AR. He can still tag enemies as they enter the base per special skill button to allow the defense knowledge of the Offensives coordinates. This add's tactical power to the Sniper to preform on both level's as a good support class. It gives him more of a role, and a purpose.

Let me know what you think. This is just the start of the idea.

Last edited by eomoyaff; 08-11-2010 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:46 AM   #2
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I agree with making all classes skill based to some degree. Unfortunatly you can't make classes so skill based that a new person finds it frustrating to understand what's going on. It seems like your ideas would put both skill in to the class (and remove the annoyances) of snipers whether being played or going against. It seems like your suggestions would make a real overhaul of the class though (not sure how current players would like it), but I do agree with them.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:11 AM   #3
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Sounds like it would be fun to play, but perhaps make him even more powerful. Giving him caltrops is a good idea.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:17 AM   #4
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for this style game i think that scope shouldnt move why becaause the idea of the sniper in my opinion for this game should be good at shooting on the run. this would make it hard at medium ranges without steadying aim. this game is all about movement i say give the sniper a chance to move around. (ive seen some godly snipers in tf2 there good with movement.) tf2 unlike most modern games doesnt have movement.

also because older games never had movement (in this game no other class does.) it keeps it feeling classic the rest im liking though. well...

make sure to make him very inacurate when not scoped. that makes him op in general. cod4 no scope was an assualt rifle if used at close range.

also why not just get rid of armor. have it to protect from one body shot or somthing. personly i dont like it its pointless.

Last edited by WiFiDi; 08-11-2010 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:58 PM   #5
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I'd prefer sniper to be entirely focused on antispy and anti gren/conc jump. Radio tag with infinite time limit, removable only by medics, a sniper shot that stops the air speed of the target, but damage brought down so that it takes 3 shots to kill a heavy class (or 1 head, 1 body), 2 for a light class (1 headshot).
Remove charge and replace it with a reloading time delay, maybe slightly slower than the AWP in CS.

Snipers currently can move around, it's just that not many do (people who play sniper are wimps who don't like to get hurt) the sniper rifle is 1 hit no matter what distance, and is actually a good offensive class on openfire, aardvark etc. where the distances between defensive positions and the entrances are long.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
2.) Lower the damage max to 35.

3.) Add a steady hand system - Basically while in a scoped mode, the laser will move around a bit until the aim adjust to a steady hand.
These 2 alone would make the sniper virtually worthless.


Sure you have that head shots would be instant kills, but getting a head shot on someone who is jumping and ducking or concing or hitting a jump pad, is not as easy as you think it is.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:59 PM   #7
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7. Caltrops suck. I can't think of a situation where I'd want those.

8. since he has your sniper rifle, which is kind of like a shotgun, we can remove that weapon slot altogether.

12. we want no one-shot kills that the victim can't see coming ahead of time. Doubling the damage for headshots would be plenty.

Other than that I like the idea.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:59 PM   #8
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazycarl View Post
7. Caltrops suck. I can't think of a situation where I'd want those.

8. since he has your sniper rifle, which is kind of like a shotgun, we can remove that weapon slot altogether.

12. we want no one-shot kills that the victim can't see coming ahead of time. Doubling the damage for headshots would be plenty.

Other than that I like the idea.
If you can't see that red light in your face, then you shouldn't be playing this game.
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:21 AM   #10
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If you're a coward and therefore play Sniper, then you shouldn't be playing this game.

EDIT: The laser is only visible when the Sniper keeps his aim on you for a while. You also have to be facing him (I think) and his aim has to be on your head (I think) which makes it not a very good judge of when you're about to die in one fucking hit to the body across the map from some unseen location.

Last edited by Bridget; 08-12-2010 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:37 AM   #11
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Care to test that theory? Last I saw, when that dot was getting close to you, you could see the beam.
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:08 AM   #12
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It's all very situational. You have to be looking practically straight at the sniper to see it, at which point it's not much of a help since you know he's aiming at you anyways.

Small changes. I'd rather see a gradual change rather than a complete overhaul, considering how if it's a bad change than we're stuck with another six months of shitty gameplay due to snipers.
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:09 AM   #13
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In that case, maybe we could add an icon when a Sniper has you in his sights, which is a fairly broad range. Kinda like you get an icon when an SG locks onto you....
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:22 AM   #14
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Oh, look, sentry lock on icon. Let me fall out of range.

Oh look, sniper icon. Let me fall o.. let me dodge his bul.. lemme ...
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Raynian View Post
Small changes. I'd rather see a gradual change rather than a complete overhaul, considering how if it's a bad change than we're stuck with another six months of shitty gameplay due to snipers.
Once FF is on Steamworks, we won't have this problem.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Raynian View Post
It's all very situational. You have to be looking practically straight at the sniper to see it, at which point it's not much of a help since you know he's aiming at you anyways.

Small changes. I'd rather see a gradual change rather than a complete overhaul, considering how if it's a bad change than we're stuck with another six months of shitty gameplay due to snipers.
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Once FF is on Steamworks, we won't have this problem.
ok so after you test this in beta i think you should then this out with comp players. then wants you got all the imput and bugs. make final changes, test again with beta testers and then add to game. you could make quick revert sniper back to where it was or find out what was wrong after a week and fix that.

also giving the assualt rifle burst fire would be awesome. (secondary fire button.)

Last edited by WiFiDi; 08-12-2010 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:34 PM   #17
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Yeah, burst fire sounds pretty cool. It's something different. It'd make him even more gimp at close range if the delay between bursts was enough. That should at-least be considered if you're going to keep having the Sniper play at an unfair distance. He shouldn't be good at long range and close range. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:51 PM   #18
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If there's burst fire, then there might not even be a need for an assault rifle. That could be replaced by something else like a pistol or sub machine gun.
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:23 PM   #19
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What do you purpose? Wasting time making a new model, skins, and all that when you can just add burst fire to the AR to achieve the same effect without the waste of time?
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynian
considering how if it's a bad change than we're stuck with another six months of shitty gameplay due to snipers.
1) The sniper already added shitty game play since the release of this mod.

2) That's more of a personal opinion. I think the game is fine now where it is to be honest, if you minus out the pyro and sniper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazycarl
7. Caltrops suck. I can't think of a situation where I'd want those.

8. since he has your sniper rifle, which is kind of like a shotgun, we can remove that weapon slot altogether.

12. we want no one-shot kills that the victim can't see coming ahead of time. Doubling the damage for headshots would be plenty.
I just used them as an example in the original post. By placing caltrops in choke points against an offense, would slow them down for an easy kill. If that doesn't make sense, then you need to be playing this game more often.

By adding a shotgun instead of a nailgun, you can actually use the shotgun to hit a low hp target from a long distance more then you could with a nailgun, by far. Then it's as simple as beating your opponent to the flag, dropping caltrops and setting up for a shot.

A shot in the head should be in an instant kill.. You'd have to be dumb not to make it in this form.

Quote:
From Gwarsbane
"2.) Lower the damage max to 35.

3.) Add a steady hand system - Basically while in a scoped mode, the laser will move around a bit until the aim adjust to a steady hand."

These 2 alone would make the sniper virtually worthless. Sure you have that head shots would be instant kills, but getting a head shot on someone who is jumping and ducking or concing or hitting a jump pad, is not as easy as you think it is.
I know it's not easy, though I know on Openfire, I can no scope as offense goes into the passage, and pull off headshots 40% of the time. That's without a scope. The hit box is retarded in that area, especially with no scope. Hell I hit more no scope then I do with one. Also, i have noted other idea's in my original post to counter what you just said. You now how an Assault Rifle that can scope and has more ammo, thus if you dont do enough damage with a SR, you can more then make up for it with an AR. ALSO, this is about giving the sniper an actual role other then being the lazy fuck that most are and standing about in the yard just popping people as they go by. That ruins the purpose behind the objective game play. And anyone who says that it's stopping the offense is just being a technical goof. It's not allowing a chance for players to PLAY THE GAME.

Quote:
WiFiDi
for this style game i think that scope shouldnt move why becaause the idea of the sniper in my opinion for this game should be good at shooting on the run. this would make it hard at medium ranges without steadying aim. this game is all about movement i say give the sniper a chance to move around. (ive seen some godly snipers in tf2 there good with movement.) tf2 unlike most modern games doesnt have movement.
You mean, The idea of the sniper should be shooting on the WALK. And half of them don't even do that.. What I'm trying to do is give the sniper movement. By applying with him, more ammo, hp, armor, 2ndary grenade, skilled button, and more of an instant shot doing max damage automatically, rather then having to charge for a moment to give max damage, he is allowed to actually move around and be more of a role player or support class when it comes to offense or defense. Sure the steady aim might take a moment to straighten out but I don't believe that the automatic movement would look anything like being hit by a concussion grenade. It'd be a much smaller figure 8 perimeter. Basically your chances of hitting with a SR if this change were to occur is actually greater if you would learn the rotation of the SR while scoped. The only difference is that your doing a max of 35 instead. And that's an instant 35 damage point-blank with like a 1.6 second delay. you hit with that then pull out your AR, and its a done deal on any medium class, which is what most offensive classes are.

Quote:
Epidemic
I agree with making all classes skill based to some degree. Unfortunatly you can't make classes so skill based that a new person finds it frustrating to understand what's going on. It seems like your ideas would put both skill in to the class (and remove the annoyances) of snipers whether being played or going against. It seems like your suggestions would make a real overhaul of the class though (not sure how current players would like it), but I do agree with them.
Honestly, any new person that steps into this game is going to have the WTF question mark above there head and begin to ask questions about how to do things. It's because There isn't a video yet (that I've seen) that teaches players how to play each class, and what all they can do. They need to make a class tutorial video with directions in it. For instance:

"The Spy!

1) The abilities of the spy.

2) who to do those abilities, by showing what key bind does what."

Even add a generic tutorial that tells people how to toss a flag, and introduces all the game-types with objectives.

My point being, anyone who is new is going to find this game fustrating because they wont know how to do anything. And at this point you'd find them playing the sniper or the pyro because it's simple. What I wish to see is that simplicity waved goodbye, and something to help players learn each class better, so that the frustration will be about the game and not the class.

Quote:
From thiz
Snipers currently can move around, it's just that not many do (people who play sniper are wimps who don't like to get hurt) the sniper rifle is 1 hit no matter what distance, and is actually a good offensive class on openfire, aardvark etc. where the distances between defensive positions and the entrances are long.
This is really another opinion about snipers. Though I agree strongly that snipers can move, I just believe they could do more when they do move.

More feedback please! And thanks for your thoughts so far.
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