Fortress Forever

Go Back   Fortress Forever > Community > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-06-2007, 09:16 PM   #41
Lost
Fear teh crowbar.
Retired FF Staff
 
Lost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Gametype: CTF ftw, yeh
Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
Send a message via Yahoo to Lost
If we don't want FF to appeal to new players, then the devs can pack their shit up and burn FF right now. Without newbs, it has no chance in hell of surviving.

They could pop out a TFC clone, make the hardcore diehard unbending vets a new engine to play with. The same playerbase that TFC has is what would play it, and probably not a fraction would bother. Why? Because it would require a decent enough computer to run HL2, thus impacting performance and that edge that high FPS and good response times provide.

Newbs will flock to TF2, for a while. Newbs will flock to FF for a long damned time if everyone takes the effort to make it as friendly as possible without taking away from the longstanding gameplay mechanics and style that TFC has developed over the years.
__________________
Do what you want cuz a pirate is free!

You are a pirate!
Lost is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-06-2007, 09:19 PM   #42
fishBurger
get off my lawn
 
fishBurger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Class/Position: O scout / demo
Gametype: killing
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
108% does seem low, especially if you've reduced the learning curve for bhopping.

I'm all for easing the learning curve to help noobs and myself get better at bhopping, but 8% doesnt quite seem to be the incentive to learn and improve, nor provide the gratification that facilitates further improvement and honing of skills. -See concjumping and MMORPGs for the correlation between play-time (read addiction) and input of time and energy to a skill and gratification upon successful application of skill.

*Disclaimer- I'm a noob. I havent played FF and dont know how the current mechanics play. I use logic and common sense to make assumptions about what I cannot measure empirically.
__________________
That means that either you are an American, or you are NOT an American. There is no hyphenated exception. -Iggy
fishBurger is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 12:57 AM   #43
AfterShock
Fortress Forever Staff
 
AfterShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 45 Times
I dont think the intention is to make bunny hopping something that 'must be learnt'. ATM in tfc, you cant survive top level TFC without being able to bunny hop. In FF, i think the hope is that bunny hopping will be one of those skills that you can learn if you can be bothered or you are interested (and is still there for ex-TFC vets that want to do it), but it won't prevent you from dealing with top players / becoming top class if you can't. Kinda like learning to circle strafe SGs. You can learn that if you want, but newbs can just as easily throw a mirv on them instead.

And yes, the 108% cap is too low and will be tweaked.
AfterShock is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 01:32 AM   #44
id_
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
this seems silly to me tbqh. ill use TFC as an example; anyone who played had to learn how to do pretty much everything. this includes moving, DM, smart grenade usage, where to build sentry guns, what classes were effective in what positions, conc jumping, circle strafing, etc. basically EVERYTHING involved in the game was something we had to learn or figure out.

to me this issue is along those same lines. for instance, player X is new and sees people bunnyhopping, but decides he doesnt want to take the time to learn how to do it. thats fine, its his loss and he doesnt have to do anything he doesnt want to. now lets say player X is new and sees people conc jumping, but decides he doesnt want to take the time to learn how to do it. is that not the same thing? i dont really think saying "ok guys, we need to balance conc jumping so that players who can do it effectively dont have a huge advantage over those who cant/wont."

unfortunately i cant really offer any alternative solution other than either taking bhop out completely or setting it to percentage that is significantly higher than 108%. being unable to get my hands on the beta to test this myself, i cant really comment on the speed cap based on experience, only in relation to TFC and the numbers given here.
id_ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 02:21 AM   #45
Ihmhi
[AE] 0112 Ihmhi *SJB
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
Ihmhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Newark, NJ, United States
Class/Position: A little bit o' everythin'
Gametype: Also a little bit o' everythin'
Affiliations: [AE] Asseater, *SJB Straight Jacket Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times
Send a message via AIM to Ihmhi Send a message via MSN to Ihmhi Send a message via Yahoo to Ihmhi
Quote:
Originally Posted by id_
i dont really think saying "ok guys, we need to balance conc jumping so that players who can do it effectively dont have a huge advantage over those who cant/wont."
Actually, they are doing that. Concing is (quoting a dev or beta tester, I forget which) "less unforgiving" and works better with lag.
__________________
Support FF:
Anime: The Thread: Reloaded
The one and only anime thread on these here forums.

Select the pistol, and then, select your horse.
Ihmhi is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 02:54 AM   #46
mistermojo
the pumps dont work
 
mistermojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihmhi
Actually, they are doing that. Concing is (quoting a dev or beta tester, I forget which) "less unforgiving" and works better with lag.
And bunnyhopping is less unforgiving, since it's Quake bhop so you don't need scripts. So there you go!
mistermojo is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 03:51 AM   #47
FrenchToast
The 1337est
D&A Member
 
FrenchToast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Omagosh Canada.
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
Concing is in a happy place right now I believe.
__________________
James, while John had had 'had', had had 'had had' ; 'had had' had had a better effect on the teacher.
FrenchToast is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 04:30 AM   #48
Paft
Beta Tester
 
Paft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK - http://forums.fortress-forever.com
Class/Position: [O] Med
Gametype: CTF/Skills
Posts Rated Helpful 67 Times
It doesn't really matter what the speed is, you'll still be faster than the people who can't BH.

Also from what I gather it doesn't have as harsh a cap, so not as hard to maintain flow unlike in TFC.
Paft is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 10:55 AM   #49
Player
D&A Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Europe
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
Bhop in TFC requires more skill than most other TF games (Quake 3 mods) because of the speed cap. I actually like the speedcap :P
Player is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 06:08 PM   #50
Coronius
Alcoholic Artist
 
Coronius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times
I see why lowering the cap is a good idea, snice 170% is still alot.

But making it low, or to low. Would make BH useless, then why not take it out?

I mean if Bunnyhopping is to powerfull, size down the cap. But dont make it useless. IMO(from what aftershock said) if BH is a thing you can learn if you wanna, but are fine without, its useless and meaningless to include.
Coronius is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 06:11 PM   #51
Circuitous
Useless
Retired FF Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout
Gametype: AvD
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
Send a message via AIM to Circuitous Send a message via MSN to Circuitous Send a message via Yahoo to Circuitous Send a message via Skype™ to Circuitous
I'm hoping to hell it gets increased.
__________________
Look at all those dead links.
Circuitous is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 10:11 PM   #52
tu!
 
tu!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Player
Bhop in TFC requires more skill than most other TF games (Quake 3 mods) because of the speed cap. I actually like the speedcap :P
wewt wewt! someelse other than me actually likes the speed cap!
tu! is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 10:12 PM   #53
Jiggles
Retired FF Staff
 
Jiggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CowTown
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Yeah, 108% is pretty useless. Wall-strafing will actually get you going faster
Jiggles is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-07-2007, 10:46 PM   #54
Circuitous
Useless
Retired FF Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout
Gametype: AvD
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
Send a message via AIM to Circuitous Send a message via MSN to Circuitous Send a message via Yahoo to Circuitous Send a message via Skype™ to Circuitous
Way way faster. It's bizarre.
__________________
Look at all those dead links.
Circuitous is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-08-2007, 12:39 AM   #55
AfterShock
Fortress Forever Staff
 
AfterShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 45 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coronius
I mean if Bunnyhopping is to powerfull, size down the cap. But dont make it useless. IMO(from what aftershock said) if BH is a thing you can learn if you wanna, but are fine without, its useless and meaningless to include.
What i meant was, in TFC, if you took an offense player and taught him to bunny hop, that would increase his skill and ability by like 30%, maybe more. (especially for scouts) In FF, I think the hope is to reduce that figure to like, 5%. (Not 0%, as you suggest).

I think maybe some people are forgetting that bunny hopping and air control are one and the same. If someone can't bunny hop, then they probably can't air control either (especially in FF, since the jump timing is done for you). So if they get shot up by a rocket, they cant turn to land where they want, or to avoid getting shot in the air. And they cant banana conc, etc. So even if we had a cap at 100%, learning to bunny hop is still far from useless (as you learn to air control along the way).

Also you can hop from a propelled jump, like a conc or rocket jump, to maintain some speed for a few hops. So even if we had a cap at 100%, learning to bunny hop is still far from useless (as you could turn corners whilst travelling rather fast from a conc skim.)

So yeah, no matter what the cap is, bunny hopping, and learning to bunny hop, will be useful.
AfterShock is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-08-2007, 09:35 AM   #56
Coronius
Alcoholic Artist
 
Coronius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times
I disagree, sure hopping from being conced an that boost will maintain it abit longer. but if i didnt have that conc, runing would be much more usefull snice i can shoot and avoid things much better while not having to bunnyhop. And IMO aircontrol isnt really a hard thing to learn and you get more skills at it from concing rather than timing a bunnyhop. I mean face it, either have it in and force the noobs to learn it, or take it away. I think the hint system and that its easier to learn now should suffice. on pubs only some offense players bhop and they are still pretty easy to kill. And face the fact that pro's wont suddenly just flock to a pub and start pwning up the noobs so they quit. They will do their skrims, pickups and clan matches/trainings. Sure make it less powerfull, but increase the cap.

(from what you said)It still will be good to know, but not such a big part of gameplay = maybe not useless but certainly not very usefull.
Coronius is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-08-2007, 11:26 PM   #57
shadow
Retired FF Staff
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
i was under the impression that ff's bhop cap was 200%.

now im sad.
shadow is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-08-2007, 11:28 PM   #58
Circuitous
Useless
Retired FF Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout
Gametype: AvD
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
Send a message via AIM to Circuitous Send a message via MSN to Circuitous Send a message via Yahoo to Circuitous Send a message via Skype™ to Circuitous
Tell me about it.
__________________
Look at all those dead links.
Circuitous is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-08-2007, 11:45 PM   #59
Bomber
Skillet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
I use to hate bhop then I learned it and love owning little noobs with it making them meltdown because they are sooo mad lol!!!
Bomber is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-09-2007, 01:38 AM   #60
Nezumi
Retired FF Staff
 
Nezumi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals.
Class/Position: Soldier, O
Gametype: Doubble Mode
Affiliations: Cassiotone Nation
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
if TFCs cap was 170%, then the 108% in FF feels something like 120/130%. Like everyone keeps saying, it's too low but it definitely doesn't feel 68% different than TFC. Actually, where it is right now you can really notice the difference between classes. The scout can get going really fast with bhop, but it feels like you're not gaining anything with the solly or HW. Kinda makes you feel vulnerable in open spaces actually.

Anyway...
__________________
TG: pretty much you have no idea how much i fuckin own at this game.
TG: i bested no less than three flaming tornados and broke a huge wizard.
Nezumi is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.