N people always beat <<N

o_lord asriel · 08-03-2006, 08:50 AM

I am so sick of this, and it's what happens in every group/society.

Survival of the fittest...where "fittest" means "many"

The immidiate topic that remind me of this was that of Blloodsire and his quicksniping post, but I am totally sure there are more.Edit: The topic is this http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...ead.php?t=5163 , thanks ekiM.

First, someone makes a decent post. He might state some facts that, unfortunately for him it seems, include that he has years of experience, has mastered a special/unusual technique, and so many other whatever stuff. These can serve as triggers for charging him for being elitist, 0m9 I kn0w 17 411-guy and so on.

Disagreements start to appear, and they build up on strength, as any of those who read it and disagree realise they are on the "power side". In this specific example, bloodsire was alone. Mervaka stated neutrally that his post had some validity, and I remember the 2nd person that used some reason was Rax? at about the third page. Soooooo......as I said, since the realization of the power side starts to build up, a point is reached when from a decent conversation the power side realizes they have power enough to start using sarcasm.

And then the conversation degenerates and the poor person who haves a point must make an epic defense at another 1000 who think "we CANT be beaten by just this 1's reason". Like Drizzt defending on 10 Marileths.

I really don't know why so much passion. The guy said something about a technique and you are quick to judge it without even knowing it, just like he predicted/said what other people do:

"Before I continue, I recognize the angst many have against snipers and the lack of respect we get."

He's been accused of elitism: Know the damn word guys. Elitism is not accepting others to come into your "guild". This one tired himself to copy the webpage, the server ip's, and so on. This ain't elitism.

There are much more to say but I won't keep on on just an example. Sooner or later another thread will come up and people will gang up accusing someone of things he haven't done for (not so) obvious internal character reasons.

I would like people who are neutral, and even better, those who are in disagreement to criticize offensive behaviour of this manner: all maturity of the world is the ability to have a disagreement without sarcasm and flames.

o_alligator · 08-03-2006, 08:56 AM

Son, this belongs in the chat forum.

o_lord asriel · 08-03-2006, 09:03 AM

Not as long as it expresses what happens in this forum. I don't use these forums for chat purposes; I only care for FF. Out of this care has my complaint come out. It would be nice if disagreements weren't that way for soccer teams too, but I only care for FF.

o_fresh · 08-03-2006, 09:03 AM

There are much worse forums out there. If people piss you off, just ignore them.

The FF community with widen and vary after a release.

o_lord asriel · 08-03-2006, 09:06 AM

People may or may not "piss me off", but that is not reason to end my struggle/wish to see THIS forum being perfect (or rather, a bit better).

o_ekim · 08-03-2006, 09:18 AM

I had to vote "Don't know/Don't answer" because your post is unreadable and I can't figure out what the poll is for. If you're trying to make a point that you think is important why wouldn't you go back and check that your post makes sense? At least link to the thread that you're talking about.

For what it's worth, while he was trying to be polite, Bloodsire's first few posts in that thread seemed like they could have been designed to antagonise people - he came off as incredibly egotisitcal and attacked arguments people simply weren't making.

Quote:

If I sound elitist, I am sorry for that, but you dont know how often I've been banned for hacking, when im doing nothing but playing the game the best I can. It happens often to people within this league, so the "we" was according to that. We are another breed that many people havent been exposed to, and simply dont respect or understand.

Quote:

If this angers you and you hate the fact that snipers live/breathe/shoot a weapon, then I am sorry and fully apologize.

Quote:

YES WE ARE ANOTHER BREATHE. Dont believe me, visit slv2.com, pm B||oodSire, Ill set you up with an array of sniper servers that we can go play in and lets see how fast you say I hack.

Quote:

I know the lot of you consider Snipers to be noobs, this is the reason for my disdain, dont knock what you dont know.

Quote:

Anytime anyone mentions the word snipe in this game you get a bunch of people rambling off how stupid the class is. Since none of you have experience the sniping league, please dont knock that either. If you wish to find out...my offer stands.

And he never uploaded a demo

o_nezumi · 08-03-2006, 10:33 AM

1) Why the crap is this a poll?

2) I voted yes. Of course this sort of thing happens. I'm in that boat with teleporters. A lot of grumpy old-schoolers don't like their game changing at all, even the tele's did next to nothing to change gameplay (Except on certain specific maps, and only then because the map is missing a few entities)*. This is just how conversation works though. I mean, what are we gonna do about it?

3) I think the conversation started off completely reasonable and only broke down once B||oodSire started to sound more and more egotistical. And anyway, everyone had a good point. It's not like their arguments sprung out of the fact that a lot of people disagreed with B||ood.

*Bam! Couldn't resist the opportunity.

o_ivaqual · 08-03-2006, 11:28 AM

internet drama itt

o_frenchtoast · 08-03-2006, 11:43 AM

This forum would lick balls without the sarcasm.

o_deadpool · 08-03-2006, 03:31 PM

an elite sniper? lol

o_darknight · 08-03-2006, 04:15 PM

I love the whole 'we are another breed' thing. Makes me chuckle.

o_dancingfool · 08-03-2006, 04:52 PM

Asriel, quit whining. You don't see me making threads about things that make me mad.

o_yoda891 · 08-03-2006, 05:15 PM

People pick sides, it's how a lot of society functions. Get over it. Even though I say this, I will admit some people were being a bit harsh to B||oodsire, but he did come off as treating the forum members as ignorant twits that haven't seen the other side of tfc/qwtf/etf, when realistically, some of the best players the games have seen are members here.

Circuitous · 08-03-2006, 05:31 PM

Did you make a fucking Drizzt reference?

o_puppychow · 08-03-2006, 05:38 PM

o_dancingfool · 08-03-2006, 06:15 PM

Awwww. Puppychow I would hug you if your avatar didn't look like it would kick my ass if I did.

o_puppychow · 08-03-2006, 06:18 PM

t3h pooh owns.

o_dancingfool · 08-03-2006, 06:18 PM

Damn straight.

o_etzell · 08-03-2006, 06:33 PM

Try some of this with your w[h]ine.

B||oodsire was told, straight-up by me what I thought of his particular brand of posting, and I stand by it. Just because he has an opinion doesn't mean that he's exempt from being an elitist (which he was) about it.

o_lord asriel · 08-03-2006, 07:31 PM

Replies to all...or most!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekiM

I had to vote "Don't know/Don't answer" because your post is unreadable and I can't figure out what the poll is for. If you're trying to make a point that you think is important why wouldn't you go back and check that your post makes sense? At least link to the thread that you're talking about.

If my post is unreadable, I partly apologise and I partly have to say that I could do nothing more...maybe I speak in a strange way? Consider also English not being my mother tongue. And also I am sorry for not including the thread....truly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekiM

For what it's worth, while he was trying to be polite, Bloodsire's first few posts in that thread seemed like they could have been designed to antagonise people - he came off as incredibly egotisitcal and attacked arguments people simply weren't making.

Most of the posts you quoted were including the "we are another breathe" thing. You know what? I believe him for the simple reason that I have been playing tfc 5 years, nothing too shabby, but I know what the x technique means. However I have never heard of quicksniping, or ever see one do it. I have never seen it in any forum, and I bet most people who were angry at the "we are another breed" phrase indeed did not know it since the guy had to explain. And also, saying "I am another breathe" doesn't mean "I pwn you all".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekiM

And he never uploaded a demo

As you never went into the server he mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezumi

1) Why the crap is this a poll?

2) I voted yes. Of course this sort of thing happens. I'm in that boat with teleporters. A lot of grumpy old-schoolers don't like their game changing at all, even the tele's did next to nothing to change gameplay (Except on certain specific maps, and only then because the map is missing a few entities)*. This is just how conversation works though. I mean, what are we gonna do about it?

3) I think the conversation started off completely reasonable and only broke down once B||oodSire started to sound more and more egotistical. And anyway, everyone had a good point. It's not like their arguments sprung out of the fact that a lot of people disagreed with B||ood.

1) Well, the fact that there are both yes and nos justifies its existence, no?

2) Conversation does not work in a "if I see I'm powerful I start mocking" way.

3) I really don't think your average egoistical guy would spend so much time justifying a point in a forum he sees most are disagreeing with him in a mocking way. I truly found no egoism in his posts. I only see a person who has figured an aspect of the game and is concerned about keeping it, and he receives a "shut up you I-think-I'm-God idiot" just because OUR egoism is strong enough not to accept we have missed a technique in all these years, probably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchToast

This forum would lick balls without the sarcasm.

O really? I have the luxury of knowing basic psychology AND my mother tongue being greek, as "sarcasm" is a greek word, and I can tell you sarcasm is a thing that creates *only* negative stuff. Noone gains from it. And actually, I am trying very hard not to use it on your comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DancingFool

Asriel, quit whining. You don't see me making threads about things that make me mad.

omg wait...wasn't that one YOURS? *deleting thread* :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoda891

People pick sides, it's how a lot of society functions. Get over it. Even though I say this, I will admit some people were being a bit harsh to B||oodsire, but he did come off as treating the forum members as ignorant twits that haven't seen the other side of tfc/qwtf/etf, when realistically, some of the best players the games have seen are members here.

People pick sides, yes. It happens, and is right. When 10 people have opinion A and 1 has B, A is taken as correct. It happens, and it is not right. He indeed treated the forum members as ignorant, yes, twits, no, and being a very good player doesn't grant you you haven't missed a technique that someone probably found by luck and didn't get widespread. Saying someone ignorant of a technique is NOT the same as saying you're not a skilled player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Did you make a fucking Drizzt reference?

Yeah

Couldn't resist it....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etzell

Just because he has an opinion doesn't mean that he's exempt from being an elitist (which he was) about it.

All I recall him saying is that he had mastered a specific sniper technique which was potent. Same thing like if all the comunity didn't use the concs to fly and he came and said "I have mastered the conc and when people see me do this they ban me from their servers". Then he would be an elitist again, right? And remember, elitist means "I am elite and you will never be", not "I am elite but you can try to be too". That is skilled, not elite. Elitism indicates closed groups. And you believing otherwise not only proves you do not know what the word means, but also you have not paid enough attention to my post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Asriel

He's been accused of elitism: Know the damn word guys. Elitism is not accepting others to come into your "guild". This one tired himself to copy the webpage, the server ip's, and so on. This ain't elitism.

View Poll Results: Do you think this happens?
Yes	10	43.48%
No	4	17.39%
Don't know/Don't answer	9	39.13%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

08-03-2006, 08:50 AM	#1
o_lord asriel Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Between absolute's vertical lines Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	N people always beat <<N I am so sick of this, and it's what happens in every group/society. Survival of the fittest...where "fittest" means "many" The immidiate topic that remind me of this was that of Blloodsire and his quicksniping post, but I am totally sure there are more.Edit: The topic is this http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...ead.php?t=5163 , thanks ekiM. First, someone makes a decent post. He might state some facts that, unfortunately for him it seems, include that he has years of experience, has mastered a special/unusual technique, and so many other whatever stuff. These can serve as triggers for charging him for being elitist, 0m9 I kn0w 17 411-guy and so on. Disagreements start to appear, and they build up on strength, as any of those who read it and disagree realise they are on the "power side". In this specific example, bloodsire was alone. Mervaka stated neutrally that his post had some validity, and I remember the 2nd person that used some reason was Rax? at about the third page. Soooooo......as I said, since the realization of the power side starts to build up, a point is reached when from a decent conversation the power side realizes they have power enough to start using sarcasm. And then the conversation degenerates and the poor person who haves a point must make an epic defense at another 1000 who think "we CANT be beaten by just this 1's reason". Like Drizzt defending on 10 Marileths. I really don't know why so much passion. The guy said something about a technique and you are quick to judge it without even knowing it, just like he predicted/said what other people do: "Before I continue, I recognize the angst many have against snipers and the lack of respect we get." He's been accused of elitism: Know the damn word guys. Elitism is not accepting others to come into your "guild". This one tired himself to copy the webpage, the server ip's, and so on. This ain't elitism. There are much more to say but I won't keep on on just an example. Sooner or later another thread will come up and people will gang up accusing someone of things he haven't done for (not so) obvious internal character reasons. I would like people who are neutral, and even better, those who are in disagreement to criticize offensive behaviour of this manner: all maturity of the world is the ability to have a disagreement without sarcasm and flames. Last edited by o_lord asriel; 08-03-2006 at 07:43 PM.

08-03-2006, 05:31 PM	#14
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Did you make a fucking Drizzt reference? __________________ Look at all those dead links.

08-03-2006, 08:56 AM	#2
o_alligator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: California Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Son, this belongs in the chat forum.

08-03-2006, 09:03 AM	#3
o_lord asriel Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Between absolute's vertical lines Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Not as long as it expresses what happens in this forum. I don't use these forums for chat purposes; I only care for FF. Out of this care has my complaint come out. It would be nice if disagreements weren't that way for soccer teams too, but I only care for FF.

08-03-2006, 09:03 AM	#4
o_fresh Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brum. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	There are much worse forums out there. If people piss you off, just ignore them. The FF community with widen and vary after a release.

08-03-2006, 09:06 AM	#5
o_lord asriel Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Between absolute's vertical lines Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	People may or may not "piss me off", but that is not reason to end my struggle/wish to see THIS forum being perfect (or rather, a bit better).

08-03-2006, 10:33 AM	#7
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	1) Why the crap is this a poll? 2) I voted yes. Of course this sort of thing happens. I'm in that boat with teleporters. A lot of grumpy old-schoolers don't like their game changing at all, even the tele's did next to nothing to change gameplay (Except on certain specific maps, and only then because the map is missing a few entities). This is just how conversation works though. I mean, what are we gonna do about it? 3) I think the conversation started off completely reasonable and only broke down once B\|\|oodSire started to sound more and more egotistical. And anyway, everyone had a good point. It's not like their arguments sprung out of the fact that a lot of people disagreed with B\|\|ood. Bam! Couldn't resist the opportunity.

08-03-2006, 11:28 AM	#8
o_ivaqual Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Europe, Front Yard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	internet drama itt

08-03-2006, 11:43 AM	#9
o_frenchtoast Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Markham, Ontario, Canada! Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	This forum would lick balls without the sarcasm.

08-03-2006, 03:31 PM	#10
o_deadpool Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	an elite sniper? lol

08-03-2006, 04:15 PM	#11
o_darknight Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Yorkshire Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I love the whole 'we are another breed' thing. Makes me chuckle.

08-03-2006, 04:52 PM	#12
o_dancingfool Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Asriel, quit whining. You don't see me making threads about things that make me mad.

08-03-2006, 05:15 PM	#13
o_yoda891 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Puyallup, Washington Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	People pick sides, it's how a lot of society functions. Get over it. Even though I say this, I will admit some people were being a bit harsh to B\|\|oodsire, but he did come off as treating the forum members as ignorant twits that haven't seen the other side of tfc/qwtf/etf, when realistically, some of the best players the games have seen are members here.

08-03-2006, 05:38 PM	#15
o_puppychow Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Washington DC Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times

08-03-2006, 06:15 PM	#16
o_dancingfool Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Awwww. Puppychow I would hug you if your avatar didn't look like it would kick my ass if I did.

08-03-2006, 06:18 PM	#17
o_puppychow Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Washington DC Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	t3h pooh owns.

08-03-2006, 06:33 PM	#19
o_etzell Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Try some of this with your w[h]ine. B\|\|oodsire was told, straight-up by me what I thought of his particular brand of posting, and I stand by it. Just because he has an opinion doesn't mean that he's exempt from being an elitist (which he was) about it.

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