What happened to the engineer!?

[Circuitous]

Paul Gilbert. Ask Mulchy about him. Biggest man-crush I've ever seen.

[Iggy]

[mervaka]

mr big or racer x?

[Rory9k]

Made the sg a class... add some legs... make it slower than HW guy and it shouldn't be able to jump. Then make the NG unable to build sg's and make him have spanner launcher. Perfect fix.

[Iggy]

You mean like this:

[Everything]

Is that an actual plugin or w/e? If so, do want! (for tfc)

[Ronzui]

DAM.. we were told to relax we will fix the sg and all its weakness now the changelog says notta WTF!...I was hopin and prayin that someone would come out and say ok we fcked up lets fix it...guess that didnt happen? Seems if that were to happen someone would have to admit to being wrong? Man I tell im really upset...Solly gets faster reload time? Yea that class really needed that.Seems a select few of us that were raising the issue of the sg being a joke now were just told...aww fuck it

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Ronzui

DAM.. we were told to relax we will fix the sg and all its weakness now the changelog says notta WTF!...I was hopin and prayin that someone would come out and say ok we fcked up lets fix it...guess that didnt happen? Seems if that were to happen someone would have to admit to being wrong? Man I tell im really upset...Solly gets faster reload time? Yea that class really needed that.Seems a select few of us that were raising the issue of the sg being a joke now were just told...aww fuck it

The engi may be broken in public CTF play, yes. But it is not in competitive play. You'll have to wait until the next patch for us to address why this is so, as it is not that simple a fix.

If you read the changelog more carefully, the soldier rocket RE-FIRE time has been increased. That means he shoots rockets SLOWER. It has nothing to do with reloading.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

soldiers shooting slower means more time in between shots for you engy types to repair your gun, since one of the main complaints was soldier being able to fire all his rockets at the gun and take it out before the engy could hit it (the other complaint being that being behind the gun doesnt block you from getting pushed by said rockets when it should, which is a lot more difficult to fix than expected [but still is in the pipes to be fixed])

[Nuk3m]

Originally Posted by squeek.

The engi may be broken in public CTF play, yes. But it is not in competitive play. You'll have to wait until the next patch for us to address why this is so, as it is not that simple a fix.

then watch ff die ig that is what the team wants to do, just cator to the elite hardcore fans. fuck the pub players attitude is turning people off to this game. let the hardcore players adjust to the changes needed to be made to make the game fun and playable for the masses, not just the very few.

notice to dev team: we dont give a fuk about league play.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Nuk3m

then watch ff die ig that is what the team wants to do, just cator to the elite hardcore fans. fuck the pub players attitude is turning people off to this game. let the hardcore players adjust to the changes needed to be made to make the game fun and playable for the masses, not just the very few.

notice to dev team: we dont give a fuk about league play.

Notice to the Nuk3m: That post was unnecessary and overly critical. Try not to be hyperbolic.

We didn't make the changes to the engi this patch because:
A) The beta team was too inactive during the holiday season to get the necessary testing
B) The engi is not entirely broken
C) The changes necessary are far from trivial and would take too much testing to fit into our goals with 2.2
D) Programming effort was better spent elsewhere (server crashes, bugs)

Expect engi changes in future patches.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

E) you are a twat.

[GeoKill----->]

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

E) you are a twat.

+1

[mervaka]

F) why the fuck is such a childish twat on the beta team?

[Nuk3m]

G) ...? sumthingfuxedwithFF... 20 players a day?

[trepid_jon]

Clearly it's because the engineer and his sentry should be unstoppable...

Anyway, I wonder how cool it would be if sentries targeted and explodededed grenades. Among other changes...

For the next patch, as that one will be all about updating and adding all sorts of stuff to make FF better and different.

[Steven_m64]

i'm going to have to agree with Nuk3m.

having the Engy totally f'ing useless still is very sad.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Steven_m64

i'm going to have to agree with Nuk3m.

Agree with him about what? If you agree that the dev team is catering only to the "hardcore fans", you would be entirely incorrect.

We would have loved to have gotten the engi changes in this patch, but it just wasn't possible. If you want to volunteer as a programmer and help us out, go right ahead.

[MonoXideAtWork]

Originally Posted by Steven_m64

i'm going to have to agree with Nuk3m.

having the Engy totally f'ing useless still is very sad.

It's not the class.

Engineer will be balanced, it just takes time.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Steven_m64

i'm going to have to agree with Nuk3m.

having the Engy totally f'ing useless still is very sad.

The engineer is not useless. If you examine any type of play that isn't public (pickup, league, competitive, etc) you'll find that the engineer AND his SG is used on just about every single map.

The problem with the engineer is not the class. The problem with the engineer is public play. Public play and the engineer class do not get along because the engineer is dependent on others for defense in order to succeed at the job he is made for. In other words, if you just put an SG up somewhere without the support of others, it will not be effective.

"But other classes can defend a spot by themselves!"

Right. This, however, does not mean anything. An engineer, coupled with a defender, is greater than a single, or even double defender in a position by multiple amounts. Even further, an engineer who is playing the flag room, which is generally where the engineer is the best, is absolutely devastating when the defense is structured properly ~ something that never happens in public play.

Even further, the SG and the engineer are not supposed to be unstoppable, or even strong. The engineer is the combination of two entities in one. He can cover double the area that any other class can, or he can doubly cover one area ~ something one class can not do.

Again, the problem is not the class. The problem is public play.

Now, you would be correct in saying that the engineer needs to be reworked so that he is useful in public play and league play while not being overpowering in either. This is what needs to change with the class.

The problem presented with this, though, is that the class will have to be fundamentally changed in order for this to happen. In order to make the engineer a viable class in both public and league play, you will HAVE to make the class behave fundamentally different. The behavior change would be between the SG and the engineer.

Currently, the automated nature of the SG proves one thing: the SG is either too strong for league play (as was the case in 2.0 and previous versions) or too weak for public play (as is the case in 2.1 and 2.2). There is no middle ground. It does not exist. It did not exist in TFC, and it can not exist here due to the similar game play mechanics of the overall game and the engineer from TFC to FF. As I said previously, the interactions between the SG and the engineer will need to change in order for a balance to be struck.

An example of a fundamental change would be switching the roles of the engineer and the SG. Currently the engineer acts as a support for the SG. Switching it so the SG is a support for the engineer would allow for skill to take precedence over class ~ something that is crucial in balancing public and league play.